Mega Thread The new Bucks mega-thread. It's Official. 2 Year Deal for Bucks.

Discussion in 'Collingwood' started by Mazzarjo, Aug 28, 2017.

Put it out there
  1. Timmy from Thomastown

    Timmy from Thomastown Hall of Famer

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    The list needed rejuvenation by 2013 regardless of who the coach was. If we'd kept Malthouse I'm sure he would have artfully avoided the 4 knee recos to key players and season restricting ankle injury to Thomas and would have led us to another grand final where he would have coached impeccably as he did in the 2011 GF (and 2003 for that matter).

    And we'd still have O'Brien, Wellingham, Shaw Beams and Thomas. But we wouldnt have Varcoe, Grundy, Adams, De Goey, Crisp, or Greenwood.

    Malthouse only had a few years left in him anyway so I'd guess by 2014 or 2015 we'd have a new coach by now.
     

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  2. Timmy from Thomastown

    Timmy from Thomastown Hall of Famer

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    Do you seriously believe Geelong wasnt also crushing teams at will?
     
  3. Timmy from Thomastown

    Timmy from Thomastown Hall of Famer

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    Without Malthouse at Carlton, Daisy would not have had ridiculous money thrown at him and been recruited by them with no due diligence. Of course things would be different.
     
  4. left at home

    left at home Brownlow Medallist

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    Have we worked out what went right or wrong yet, it’s now 7-9 years later.
    Time to move on and talk about his coaching, game plan ect than the past that cannot be changed.
     
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  5. westozpie

    westozpie All Australian

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    No doubt they were, I'm talking about Collingwood and whether Collingwood got complacent.
     
  6. HeathComeBack

    HeathComeBack Club Legend

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    the contempt he had for Buckley i doubt it
     
  7. Gone Critical

    Gone Critical Moderator

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    Lesser contract than he got at Carlton but would have been kept on and had a great post footy reputation to help with further endeavours.
     
  8. Gone Critical

    Gone Critical Moderator

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    I suspect fertilised by MM instead of the reverse as it should have been.
     
  9. Timmy from Thomastown

    Timmy from Thomastown Hall of Famer

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    He would have had to suck it up. He would have failed the medical at 16 other clubs.
     
  10. Timmy from Thomastown

    Timmy from Thomastown Hall of Famer

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    In 2011? What an idiotic premise.
     
  11. westozpie

    westozpie All Australian

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    Why
     

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  12. TKiL

    TKiL Club Legend

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    Melbourne medical fraternity knew Daisy's ankle was cactus - Malthouse told Carlton medicos to sort it or his job would be cactus as well
     
  13. TKiL

    TKiL Club Legend

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    If you're suggesting Daisy was fertilised by MM, that takes the father figure bit to another level
     
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  14. Timmy from Thomastown

    Timmy from Thomastown Hall of Famer

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    Because we made the grand final and were beaten by the only team we couldn’t beat all year. It’s an idiotic premise to assume the team was coasting or overconfident or smug in 2011.

    Exactly at what point in time did this complacency manifest itself? 3/4 time in the granny when we were just 7 points down? Did the team say, well done boys, that’s close enough, we won last year?

    Things didn’t go right in September 2011 ( injuries, coaching, selection) and we were beaten on the day by a great team that we hadn’t beaten in the home and away. Simple as that. We needed everything to go right to beat Geelong and it didn’t happen.
     
  15. mike123

    mike123 Brownlow Medallist

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    The bolded could end up like this descending on how we trade.
     
  16. Gone Critical

    Gone Critical Moderator

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    That's very good, wished I thought of it.
     
  17. westozpie

    westozpie All Australian

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    So I take it you don't subscribe to the theory that if you're off by a few % you can lose to any one. Maybe we were better than Geelong but we're off by that few %
    Idiotic premise wow pity my comment came when you are in such a shit mood and a simple question got you so riled.
    Tell you what's idiotic, your stupid sarcastic question "did it manifest itself at 3/4 time".
    Thomastown, don't know it to well but I will do some research and find out a bit about it, like why people from there seem to get angry at nothing.
     
  18. PieNSauce

    PieNSauce Norm Smith Medallist

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    Yes I probably gave the wrong impression with how I worded that. What I was trying to suggest was a bit of a secret deal with Bucks to come to the club as an assistant in the private knowledge that he would become senior coach down the track. You may be right about the attitude to rookies but I have my doubts the Collingwood faithful would accept it and I also doubt that the board was comfortable with that option. In any case, the main tenet of what I was getting at is that I believe the succession plan was so poorly implemented that we'd have been better off had they just sacked Mick outright. Where that would have left Bucks is not particularly important in terms of the point I was trying to make.
     
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2018
  19. PieNSauce

    PieNSauce Norm Smith Medallist

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    You may well be right on that point but I have a vague recollection that Bucks had since clarified that his decision not to resign was heavily influenced by Eddie. To me this effectively means that he did offer to resign but was talked out of it. Sadly I haven't been able to find anything in the media about it so I guess it goes down as an unsupported suggestion but that is certainly how I understood it.
     
  20. jmac70

    jmac70 Brownlow Medallist

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    Well said! We have great mods but it’s about time the succession plan talk is ended. At present this thread represents a trash can.
     
  21. Gone Critical

    Gone Critical Moderator

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    Have found the relevant quotes. It was August 2016 when Bucks was on the Coaches Box on SEN.

    The candid interview where he also said he "was on the hook" for 2017 and wouldn't be reappointed if we didn't make finals. Once I found it you can see it was pretty heavily reported by the media. Attached is one such report from the AFL site which was pretty representative of how it was reported.

    http://www.afl.com.au/news/2016-08-19/no-way-buckley-will-stay-if-pies-miss-finals-in-2017

    A couple of interesting quotes were

    "He also said he considered delaying his planned succession of Mick Malthouse at the end of 2011 given the strong position the club was in at the time.

    "Right so this is happening, we're talking about this publicly," Buckley said."


    Pretty clear that he considered it. He also said in the interview no one at the club approached him about delaying the change. Given that Eddie was later quoted as saying Bucks was too honest and shouldn't have given the interview I think if Bucks had clarified at a later date that Eddie had heavily influenced him not to resign that would have been big news. I don't recall any such suggestion.

    "Fundamentally, when I sat down with myself and others I asked do we as a club — and clearly this will sound bizarre given our on-field performance since, but if you really want to dig deep into that you'll see the reasons for it — but I fundamentally felt will I positively impact this environment and the football club for long-term success?"

    This quote explains why he chose not to delay. By the end of 2011 when he considered it he felt goingwith the plan was going to be a better long term influence than delaying. That speaks to concerns about where the playing group was going. The "if you dig deep" reference pretty implies he saw significant issues with the playing group from inside which he thought needed to be remedied. The "bizarre" reference acknowledges this sounds funny in hindsight given our fall down the ladder.


    "We didn't have the locker room for a while, there were a lot of influences in that part of the club and we needed to change things up," he said.

    "I think that accelerated it (my development as a coach).

    "The influences on the playing group had had their success and were happy to just roll along.

    "That's a tale for another time.

    "Absolutely yeah (I have the locker room now) ... it's been a long haul."


    This quote further illustrates where Bucks saw the playing group at the end of 2011 and going into 2012. I wouldn't say I think he got it right as I haven't been the greatest fan of his coaching as much as I admire him but it explains where he was coming from. The "happy to role along" and tale for another time" reference implies there is plenty we don't know from behind the scenes at that time.
     
  22. Gone Critical

    Gone Critical Moderator

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    No worries

    Sacking him outright for mine would have risked losing the most successful Collingwood side, 2010-11, I have seen. We would never know but in retrospect I doubt a new experienced coach could have come in and emulated what took place at Collingwood those seasons and we would probably still be looking for flag no 15.
     
  23. Gone Critical

    Gone Critical Moderator

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    Not sure I agree. The megathread is just that, a thread for all Buckley coaching discussion. Posters get pinged for taking this discussion elsewhere. The past still informs a lot of what happens with Bucks coaching going forward so remains a talking point

    Maybe we can strike a better balance but in this hiatus the "present" talk has stalled as there isn't much happening so the past comes to the fore. That will change as the season approaches.
     
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  24. jmac70

    jmac70 Brownlow Medallist

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    I describe this thread as a trash can because everything gets thrown in it. The succession plan no longer has any relevance to Buckley as coach.
     
  25. jmac70

    jmac70 Brownlow Medallist

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    We were beaten by a better side. It happens.