UK The Queen

[Gethelred]

This thread is actively moderated, let's behave like adults, shall we?

For conversation on an Australian Republic:

Who wants a Republic?

I am just curious in the figure as it has been over 10 years since we had a referendum for it. Personally, I think we should become a Republic.

www.bigfooty.com

 

[footyfan1978]

Did Kerr really live his days out in England and if so , why?

 

[Roylion]

representative of a foreign power can take it upon himself to sack an entire government

Kerr was not the representative of a 'foreign power'. He was a representative of the Crown of Australia, established in his role by the Australian Constitution.

 

[Festerz]

Opinion polls? It was the blocking of supply by the Senate that led to the Dismissal.

The opinion poll reference was in direct response to the claim that the dismissal of a democratically elected government by a non elected official was justified because of the electoral result that followed. A ludicrous suggestion for a democracy.

We have a system which allows the Federal elected government to choose the date of the election within a maximum 3 year timeframe - Whitlam faced 3 elections in 3 years due to the actions of a belligerent opposition and, finally, the interference of the Queen's representative in what was essentially a party political political dispute.

As for the blocking of supply, how did that come about given that in mid-1975, the Government and Opposition were evenly balanced in the Senate and the 2 independents were supportive of the government?

As history tells us, on June 30, Queensland Labor Senator Bert Milliner died suddenly and everything changed. The blatantly corrupt National Party Queensland Premier Joh Bjelke-Petersen replaced that Labor Senator with a nobody called Albert Patrick Field.

Although Field was a member of the Labor Party, Field was openly hostile toward Whitlam and his Government and his appointment would give the Opposition an outright majority in the Senate - forcing yet another election.

Field was forced to take leave of absence after his right to sit in the Senate was challenged by the Labor Party in the High Court. But even without Field in the Senate, the Government could only secure a maximum of 29 votes, while the Opposition was guaranteed 30.

This is where your 'blocking of supply' came from - by blatant flouting of democratic protocols and conventions that underpin our democracy. A LNP Premier using the death of a democratically elected Labor Senator to replace him with his own conservative nominee.

And in stepped sir John Kerr. Ignoring the advice of his PM that the Senate impasse was about to be broken by the usual political processes, a fact supported by subsequent evidence and interviews, Kerr deliberately misled the Prime Minister while the Opposition Leader was waiting in the wings for his coup to be complete.

Had the then PM Whitlam been told by his Governor General what course of action GG was considering - Whitlam would have gone to Parliament advising of his intention to call a double dissolution which would have led to a backdown in the Senate. But that was a course of action denied to him by the deception of his Governor General who appointed the Opposition Leader as Acting PM, An utterly disgraceful action.

These are the events that you have glossed over in your cut and paste frenzy to create a particular narrative.

You, like all of us, are free to have any political opinion you want in this country and to express it here as such. But please, don't try and cloak that biased narrative with carefully selected tidbits of truth masquerading as historical fact.

FWIW Here's a bit of political narrative of my own. Former PM Paul Keating telling it as it was in the Sir John Kerr condolence motion:

 

[mcnulty]

To be fair on Kerr. He was probably half drunk so if he fluffed a few things in his role, not a hanging offence.

Doubt that bloke was “half” drunk once in his life. Or if he was, not for very long.

 

[spinynorman]

There is something to be said about our tolerance of something once it becomes a reality.

 

[Cooldude]

There is something to be said about our tolerance of something once it becomes a reality.

The insane bombarding of royal propaganda also plays a big part

 

[fishardansin]

John Kerr was Chief Justice of NSW from 1972 to 1974. Whitlam recommended Kerr as Governor-General to replace Paul Hasluck, because he thought that Kerr would be "politically reliable" as he had been a former member of the Labor Party.



Opinion polls? It was the blocking of supply by the Senate that led to the Dismissal.

An act of political bastardry that Kerr rewarded. Fraser should have been censured for that.

 

[deanc]

Is she in the ground yet?

Let's end this tripe.

One of my pommy mates reckons the Queen's body is not in the coffin currently on tour around half of the UK - but it will be the day of her burial...

He claims that all the senior Royals are aware of this and it's mainly to mitigate unforeseen incidents given the transportation logistics...

 

[Chief]

Sounds logical.

 

[Satan]

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

The opinion poll reference was in direct response to the claim that the dismissal of a democratically elected government by a non elected official was justified because of the electoral result that followed. A ludicrous suggestion for a democracy.

We have a system which allows the Federal elected government to choose the date of the election within a maximum 3 year timeframe - Whitlam faced 3 elections in 3 years due to the actions of a belligerent opposition and, finally, the interference of the Queen's representative in what was essentially a party political political dispute.

As for the blocking of supply, how did that come about given that in mid-1975, the Government and Opposition were evenly balanced in the Senate and the 2 independents were supportive of the government?

As history tells us, on June 30, Queensland Labor Senator Bert Milliner died suddenly and everything changed. The blatantly corrupt National Party Queensland Premier Joh Bjelke-Petersen replaced that Labor Senator with a nobody called Albert Patrick Field.

Although Field was a member of the Labor Party, Field was openly hostile toward Whitlam and his Government and his appointment would give the Opposition an outright majority in the Senate - forcing yet another election.

Field was forced to take leave of absence after his right to sit in the Senate was challenged by the Labor Party in the High Court. But even without Field in the Senate, the Government could only secure a maximum of 29 votes, while the Opposition was guaranteed 30.

This is where your 'blocking of supply' came from - by blatant flouting of democratic protocols and conventions that underpin our democracy. A LNP Premier using the death of a democratically elected Labor Senator to replace him with his own conservative nominee.

And in stepped sir John Kerr. Ignoring the advice of his PM that the Senate impasse was about to be broken by the usual political processes, a fact supported by subsequent evidence and interviews, Kerr deliberately misled the Prime Minister while the Opposition Leader was waiting in the wings for his coup to be complete.

Had the then PM Whitlam been told by his Governor General what course of action GG was considering - Whitlam would have gone to Parliament advising of his intention to call a double dissolution which would have led to a backdown in the Senate. But that was a course of action denied to him by the deception of his Governor General who appointed the Opposition Leader as Acting PM, An utterly disgraceful action.

These are the events that you have glossed over in your cut and paste frenzy to create a particular narrative.

You, like all of us, are free to have any political opinion you want in this country and to express it here as such. But please, don't try and cloak that biased narrative with carefully selected tidbits of truth masquerading as historical fact.

FWIW Here's a bit of political narrative of my own. Former PM Paul Keating telling it as it was in the Sir John Kerr condolence motion:

But don't you see! Queen Elizabeth sitting there completely uninterested in being informed of events is PROOF that our Australian hereditary monarchy works. She did nothing! While her inebriate representative phcuked up everything. She radiates awesome power by never exercising that power! (Makes perfect sense.) That's the beauty of an Australian hereditary monarchy!

 

[footyfan1978]

The opinion poll reference was in direct response to the claim that the dismissal of a democratically elected government by a non elected official was justified because of the electoral result that followed. A ludicrous suggestion for a democracy.

We have a system which allows the Federal elected government to choose the date of the election within a maximum 3 year timeframe - Whitlam faced 3 elections in 3 years due to the actions of a belligerent opposition and, finally, the interference of the Queen's representative in what was essentially a party political political dispute.

As for the blocking of supply, how did that come about given that in mid-1975, the Government and Opposition were evenly balanced in the Senate and the 2 independents were supportive of the government?

As history tells us, on June 30, Queensland Labor Senator Bert Milliner died suddenly and everything changed. The blatantly corrupt National Party Queensland Premier Joh Bjelke-Petersen replaced that Labor Senator with a nobody called Albert Patrick Field.

Although Field was a member of the Labor Party, Field was openly hostile toward Whitlam and his Government and his appointment would give the Opposition an outright majority in the Senate - forcing yet another election.

Field was forced to take leave of absence after his right to sit in the Senate was challenged by the Labor Party in the High Court. But even without Field in the Senate, the Government could only secure a maximum of 29 votes, while the Opposition was guaranteed 30.

This is where your 'blocking of supply' came from - by blatant flouting of democratic protocols and conventions that underpin our democracy. A LNP Premier using the death of a democratically elected Labor Senator to replace him with his own conservative nominee.

And in stepped sir John Kerr. Ignoring the advice of his PM that the Senate impasse was about to be broken by the usual political processes, a fact supported by subsequent evidence and interviews, Kerr deliberately misled the Prime Minister while the Opposition Leader was waiting in the wings for his coup to be complete.

Had the then PM Whitlam been told by his Governor General what course of action GG was considering - Whitlam would have gone to Parliament advising of his intention to call a double dissolution which would have led to a backdown in the Senate. But that was a course of action denied to him by the deception of his Governor General who appointed the Opposition Leader as Acting PM, An utterly disgraceful action.

These are the events that you have glossed over in your cut and paste frenzy to create a particular narrative.

You, like all of us, are free to have any political opinion you want in this country and to express it here as such. But please, don't try and cloak that biased narrative with carefully selected tidbits of truth masquerading as historical fact.

FWIW Here's a bit of political narrative of my own. Former PM Paul Keating telling it as it was in the Sir John Kerr condolence motion:

Fair description by Keating.
Did not overdo it.
Quite balanced summary of it all.

 

[Saint]

One should not understate the unease felt by all British at the moment. Inflation out of control because of Brexit and the Ukraine War, political turmoil, now the death of their rock.

That's why the British are so shocked at the moment, it's like being kicked while they're down. Very, very many of them are fearful for the future.

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

Britain likes to consider itself the cradle of free speech – until someone heckles Prince Andrew | Marina Hyde

Vocal antipathy towards any number of things is a cornerstone of The Great British Way. Shame the authorities don’t agree, says Guardian columnist Marina Hyde

www.theguardian.com

 

[Gough]

One should not understate the unease felt by all British at the moment. Inflation out of control because of Brexit and the Ukraine War, political turmoil, now the death of their rock.

That's why the British are so shocked at the moment, it's like being kicked while they're down. Very, very many of them are fearful for the future.

With Truss and Charles at the helm, a cold winter, followed by a hot summer and we might see civil unrest unseen since the summer of 81 next year.

 

[Chief]

 

[JackNah_8]

Wonder how long Charles will last as the King before William takes over.

 

[Not Important]

Kelly is also the author of nine books on Australian politics and history. He was actually at Parliament House in Canberra on the day of the Dismissal and has written extensively on the Dismissal, most recently in 2015.

His co-author on 'The Palace Letters' Troy Bramston has written books on Paul Keating, Robert Menzies, and on the Rudd-Gillard era. He's also interviewed most of the key players in the Dismissal and has made a number of significant archival discoveries about the event.

it’s quality not quantity that counts. he’s a right wing hack journo who is noted 4 his errors. pilger was right in his comments on his work.

prof hocking is a celebrated academic whose work on the dismissal goes back decades. she forensically went through the Palace Letters and her work is acknowledged universally. Each 2 his/her own

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

Lidia Thorpe on the Queen's death and what it means for Indigenous Australians:

Don’t ask me to give the Queen a minute’s silence, ask me for the truth about British colonialism | Lidia Thorpe

Truth-telling, truth-listening and treaty are the ways to heal Australia, not a day of mourning for a far-off monarch

www.theguardian.com

 

[Number37]

Whitlam's government had already been dismissed by this time.

Govt can only be formed by the leader of the party that commands a majority in the House of Reps.

Whitlam passed a motion in the House of Reps at 2.30pm that he had retained the confidence of the House & for the GG to dismiss Fraser.
All that needed to happen was for the Speaker to tell the GG & have the GG sign it off.

Hence the locked gates and collusion with Fraser.

 

[tandino]

it’s quality not quantity that counts. he’s a right wing hack journo who is noted 4 his errors. pilger was right in his comments on his work.

prof hocking is a celebrated academic whose work on the dismissal goes back decades. she forensically went through the Palace Letters and her work is acknowledged universally. Each 2 his/her own

Universally? Paul Keating disagrees, for one. And he would be in a position to know.

 

[rumply]

 

[Festerz]

Universally? Paul Keating disagrees, for one. And he would be in a position to know.

Yep.

Keating's foreword to the Kelly/Bramston book is compelling. These paragraphs my favourite:



Kerr was acting against both Australia and the Queen's best interest. Keating regards the notion of the Queen actively conspiring with Kerr to achieve a party political outcome in Australia as absurd and, as you say, he was in one of the best positions to judge.

And as hypocritical as it sounds, it is a view that is not only consistent with but is actually a strong argument in favour of overhauling our constitutional ties with the monarchy with an Australian republic.

 

[tandino]

Yep.

Keating's foreword to the Kelly/Bramston book is compelling. These paragraphs my favourite:

View attachment 1507832

Kerr was acting against both Australia and the Queen's best interest. He regards the notion of the Queen actively conspiring with Kerr to achieve a party political outcome in Australia as absurd.

And as hypocritical as it sounds, it is a view that is not only consistent with but is actually a strong argument in favour of overhauling our constitutional ties with the monarchy with an Australian republic.

Fraser carries the political responsibility for his actions and their fallout, whatever they may have been, but Kerr has to carry the can for the crisis almost exclusively.

People both deride and find comfort in the powers of the Senate depending on the circumstances of the day. Whether they should have the ability to block supply is a fair question but over the corresponding years that power hasn't been taken away from them, and there's been referenda where that question hasn't been on the ballot.

A long time ago I thought that the subsequent election retrospectively evened the ledger, but its the Government's responsibility to get its legislation through parliament. If the money runs out, because they can't get it through, with the tools at their disposal, then it's squarely on their heads, but it's a political crisis, not a constitutional crisis.

 

[deanc]

Lidia Thorpe on the Queen's death and what it means for Indigenous Australians:

Don’t ask me to give the Queen a minute’s silence, ask me for the truth about British colonialism | Lidia Thorpe

Truth-telling, truth-listening and treaty are the ways to heal Australia, not a day of mourning for a far-off monarch

www.theguardian.com

I'm not sure I agree or understand some of the sudden anti-monarchy sentiment that is apparent since QEII passed. Pro-Republic belief's and attitudes I've no issue with and welcome a related referendum, but does it really need to include some going out of their way to trash the Royals, as usual lead by sections of the media who's only objective is readership and/or ratings..?

While there is nothing in this article, or similar published in recent times, that I do not support - the media's obesession with promoting victim-hood racist narratives in relation to the historical colonisation of our country is increasingly unhelpful rheteric often promoting further divsion of the related legacies, notwithstanding a treaty with our First Nations people which should of been promulgated many years ago..!

And in terms of Australia becoming a Republic, I'm not sure too many people know what's invloved as I doubt simply updating some references in our Constitution and renaming our current 'Governor-general' the 'President' on Monday morning with business as usual thereafter is all that's required - or is it this simple..?