The rankings (from best to worst) of the 125 VFL-AFL premiership teams
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craffles
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craffles
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And people say housing affordability is out of control in Melbourne? How are Essendon just living it large for free so easily then?
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Okay, let's nip this stupid argument in the bud immediately. Just because a team is one year removed from another team doesn't make them the same. Players are at different ages and different stages of their careers. The delicate chemistry can change dramatically from one year to another.
To use your own logic against you:
Essendon of 2000 beat Brisbane of 2000 (yes 12 months earlier for brisbane, but a similar side to 2001), and beat them by 60 points in the wet at the Gabba.
Are Geelong of 2006 the same as Geelong of 2007 because they had mostly the same players? Of course not.
Are Richmond of 2016 the same as Richmond of 2017 because they had mostly the same players? Of course not.
Are Brisbane of 2000 the same as Brisbane of 2001 because they had mostly the same players? Of course not.
Are Melbourne of 2020 the same as Melbourne of 2021 because they had mostly the same players? Of course not.
Are Collingwood of 2011 the same as Collingwood of 2012 because they had mostly the same players? Of course not.
Are Carlton of 1996 the same as Carlton of 1995 because they had mostly the same players? Of course not.
It's such a stupid argument. Essendon of 2001 were good, but not great. They were a run-of-the-mill 17-5 side with a percentage of around 130%. Nothing special by minor-premiership standards. The fact they were one year removed from 2000 is irrelevant, because there are dozens of examples from all clubs of teams being far better from one year to the next. Brisbane of 2000 were not great either despite being one year removed from 2001.
Brisbane of 2001 are mid-ranked at number 62 because that is where 17-5 teams with a percentage of 127% who finished 2nd on the ladder tend to get ranked in this exercise.
Blackas87
Brownlow Medallist
Good effort on the list.
Just a quick observation, this years premiership 29th while Hawthorn’s 2015 is 28th.
Hawthorn won less games during the home and away season finishing 3rd on the ladder and then got belted in the qualifying final against West Coast (down by 50 at 3 quarter time) needing the 2nd chance to win the premiership.
Just a quick observation, this years premiership 29th while Hawthorn’s 2015 is 28th.
Hawthorn won less games during the home and away season finishing 3rd on the ladder and then got belted in the qualifying final against West Coast (down by 50 at 3 quarter time) needing the 2nd chance to win the premiership.
Shane Heard
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- Mar 11, 2018
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a side note to that 2001 season…let us never forget what Brisbane were doing that season ☝
ESSENDON coach James Hird says the Bombers’ silent protest in the 2001 Grand Final against Brisbane’s controversial intravenous drip program does not compare to Sam Mitchell’s drug taunt.
The Herald Sun has confirmed a group of Bombers wore black armbands around their forearms in an attempt to taunt their Brisbane rivals.
Brisbane used intravenous drips to rehydrate players at half time of games in 2001 until the controversial practice was banned by the AFL.”
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How do you know the Essendon 2000 team was any better than the Essendon 2001 team? How do you know it wasn’t simply a matter of things going well for them coinciding with things going wrong for would-be challengers in 2000, and the opposite occurring in 2001?
Your method seems to assume that the opposition every Premiership team faces is equal, something that doesn’t stand to reason.
This is where the likes of Essendon 2000 fall over, there is no sustained performance to prove they are indeed a truly great Premiership team, and not just an average Premiership team who faced weakened opposition in a particular season. Whereas the probability of a team who is winning flags across 3-4-5-6+ seasons doing so as a result of facing weakened opponents is obviously much lower.
Essendon had 3 players different between the two Grand Finals 2000-2001, so in terms of players at least they were essentially 85-90% the same team. One of the other teams you list above, Richmond 16 v Richmond 17 routinely fielded 8-9-10 different players between the two seasons, so they were a completely different team in terms of players(highly successful teams normally turn over an average of 2 players per season.) So Richmond being a radically different team one season to the next there, whilst correctly observed by you, does not add anything to your argument that Essendon were also a completely different team between 2000 and 2001.
Also, your claim that the Brisbane 2000 team Essendon trounced was a similar side to 2001 is incorrect, there were 8 different Lions players compared to the 2001 Grand Final team. You have argued very poorly here, switching measuring devices as suits your position by on one hand describing that Brisbane team as similar to their 2001 Premiership team despite containing 8 different players, whilst in the same post trying to make out the two Essendon Grand Final teams with only 3 players different are somehow completely different teams.
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Brilliant post.
Also, in addition to your points above, a teams performance a year before they came good is far less relevant to the assessment of the team at their peak than how the team performs a year after their peak (where the team is largely the same)
You can make an argument a team was struggling because things hadn't come together for them yet....but the one hit wonder #greatestteamofalltime getting bested the next year by ultimately a 3 peat team suggests they were never close to being the greatest team of all time.
Shane Heard
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eerrr ..individual premiership flags are won in individual years
in your deluded mind you should be telling yourself that Tigers 2020 was a diluted season full of advantages for the RFC
Oh and also …Hird played with a busted calf in the 2001 GF
Should’ve have played at all really
So not the same as 2000 GF where he ran around like Jesus walking on water and everything he touched turned to gold
Shane Heard
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You’re as dumb as the idiot poster you’re praising.
My natural inclination is to agree with your point here. My perception is there is normally less variance in performance after a Premiership than there is before a Premiership, for the reason you gave. But let’s put it to the test and look at the last 21 Premiers up to 2020 shall we?
What this table shows is that since 2000 at least, that assertion is incorrect. Teams have, on average basically performed equally as well in the seasons preceding and following their Premiership seasons.
| Finishing position previous season | Team and Premiership Year | Finishing position next season |
| 3rd | 2000 Essendon | 2nd |
| 5th | 2001 Brisbane | 1st |
| 1st | 2002 Brisbane | 1st |
| 1st | 2003 Brisbane | 2nd |
| 3rd | 2004 Port Adelaide | 6th |
| 5th | 2005 Sydney | 2nd |
| 2nd | 2006 Eagles | 5th |
| 10th | 2007 Geelong | 2nd |
| 6th | 2008 Hawthorn | 9th |
| 2nd | 2009 Geelong | 3rd |
| 4th | 2010 Collingwood | 2nd |
| 3rd | 2011 Geelong | 7th |
| 6th | 2012 Sydney | 4th |
| 2nd | 2013 Hawthorn | 1st |
| 1st | 2014 Hawthorn | 1st |
| 1st | 2015 Hawthorn | 5th |
| 8th | 2016 Bulldogs | 10th |
| 13th | 2017 Richmond | 3rd |
| 6th | 2018 Eagles | 6th |
| 3rd | 2019 Richmond | 1st |
| 1st | 2020 Richmond | 12th |
| 4.1 = average finishing position prior season | 4.14 = average finishing position next season | |
| 9 teams had greater variance in finishing position prior to their premiership | 9 teams had greater variance in ther finishing position after their premiership |
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I cannot tell what point you are responding to or what point you are making to be honest. But I will take your post as meaning something in my post hit a raw nerve with you, which, on the whole, is a pleasing result.
Don't even bother trying to point out double-standards. The list is full of horrible subjectivity.
brutus76
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Bombers no doubt #1
IMO Carlton 95 is too low. Only lost two games. But weren't out to dominate teams. Always won comfortable without over exuding themselves and managing their older players beautifully.
And in the finals after getting a scare by the Bears stepped up and always looked winners.
IMO Carlton 95 is too low. Only lost two games. But weren't out to dominate teams. Always won comfortable without over exuding themselves and managing their older players beautifully.
And in the finals after getting a scare by the Bears stepped up and always looked winners.
Shane Heard
Brownlow Medallist
- Mar 11, 2018
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I cannot tell what point you are responding to or what point you are making to be honest. But I will take your post as meaning something in my post hit a raw nerve with you, which, on the whole, is a pleasing result.
no raw nerves..just highlighting how much of a simpleton you must be
no raw nerves..just highlighting how much of a simpleton you must be
Oh, that clears it up then, sort of…..
Only you didn’t highlight how much of a simpleton I must be, you didn’t pick up any point in my post to allow you to do so. So perhaps that says more about you than me Shame Heard.
Good analysis.
I would suggest though that if you isolated the "great" teams above you would find that they tended to be a lot weaker in the year before their "greatness" and then that "greatness" was sustained.
Certainly, you couldn't use the year before their first premiership and consider they were playing at a level anywhere near their dynastic peak - which is one of the arguments that have been made to justify the Essendon 2000 team being the best team ever and the 2001 Brisbane premiership team being 62nd
OK dude.
Or we are both a lot smarter than you and you are mistaking your own confusion with a lack of coherency in our posts?
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Pies 2011 is a good shout. 20-2 season, a percentage of 168 which is insane. They just couldn't get over the Cats, all three losses in the season were against them.
That is a good spot by you. The dynasty teams before their first flags finished 5th, 10th, 2nd and 13th. Whereas the "greatest team of all time” finished 2nd the year after their one premiership. Interestingly, the 3 teams the "greatest premier in the history of football” beat in their 3 finals finished 5th, 11th and 13th of 16 teams in the following season, suggesting they were probably there for the taking in the 2000 finals series.
The team the “greatest ever” beat in the Grand Final in 2000 - Melbourne - had finished 14th of 16 in 1999 and then finished 11th of 16 in 2001, which also suggest some weakness in season 2000 compared to adjacent seasons. That Melbourne finished 2000 on 14 wins 8 losses and 118% also suggests the 2000 Bombers got a bit of a saloon passage to have them for a Grand Final opponent, and that come the 2000 finals series there was some pretty serious weakness at the top of the ladder. We must acknowledge that the Bombers exploited this brilliantly of course.
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- #122
This list is not ranked purely based on numbers, although numbers are obviously a big factor. The reason Hawthorn of 2015 is so high is because I watched them play! This was a team that lost a number of close games during the year and probably should have won 19 or 20 H&A games. They had a percentage of over 150%. From the teams I saw play, I use my own knowledge based on what I saw and Hawthorn of 2015, with their ennormous percentage were far more dominant than their 3rd placed finish after 22 games would indicate.
FWIW - i would rate the Ess 85 flag winning team higher than their 2000 team
In fact in the last 50-60 years - i would have the Dons 85 flag side in the best 2 or 3 - and i think you can make the arguement that they were no1 - the best ever
They tick alot of boxes - but the biggest box they tick by far - is they utterly demolished ( about 13 goals ) another sustained Powerhouse at the time in Hawthorn - they utterly destroyed a top quality team - now when your rating champion teams - that aspect should count for plenty in my opinion
You fast forward that to today - now Melb have got an outstanding team - plenty saying they are scary good - which is correct
You take the Demons team of 21 - and say they were that good back in 2018-19 - when Richmond were right at their peak
So you have 2 top quality outstanding teams playing off in GF - re Tigers and Demons - and one of them beat the other by 13 goals - youd be saying their nearly the best ever
In fact in the last 50-60 years - i would have the Dons 85 flag side in the best 2 or 3 - and i think you can make the arguement that they were no1 - the best ever
They tick alot of boxes - but the biggest box they tick by far - is they utterly demolished ( about 13 goals ) another sustained Powerhouse at the time in Hawthorn - they utterly destroyed a top quality team - now when your rating champion teams - that aspect should count for plenty in my opinion
You fast forward that to today - now Melb have got an outstanding team - plenty saying they are scary good - which is correct
You take the Demons team of 21 - and say they were that good back in 2018-19 - when Richmond were right at their peak
So you have 2 top quality outstanding teams playing off in GF - re Tigers and Demons - and one of them beat the other by 13 goals - youd be saying their nearly the best ever
That's right. Melbourne actually finished 14th and 11th either side of 2000.
Another thing to note is that Essendon and the Lions were the only two teams from 2000 that made the finals in both of the following two seasons. I doubt you would find any other period this century where less than 4 teams played in three consecutive finals series yet there were only two from 2000 to 2002.
Edit: Between 2005 and 2007 only Eagles, Swans and Crows played in each finals series.
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