The rankings (from best to worst) of the 127 VFL/AFL premiership teams

[Meteoric Rise]

You're wrong again, as usual.

This proves it:
View attachment 1831669

I think you will find all Premiers get a cup and take a photo, so that isn't exactly unique. What is unique however is how poorly this Collingwood team performed in finals compared to the last decade of Premiers....

Accumulated finals winning margins for each Premier from 2013 onwards, highest to lowest:


1. Melbourne 2021 190 points
2. Geelong 2022 158 points
3. Richmond 2019 155 points
4. Hawthorn 2015 147 points
5. Richmond 2017 135 points
6. Hawthorn 2014 102 points
7. Bulldogs 2016 98 points
8. Eagles 2018 87 points
9. Richmond 2020 85 points*
10. Hawthorn 2013 74 points


and the wooden spooner by so far it must be embarrassing for you given your rather rash statement they are better than most Premiers of the last decade, whipping them in, tailed off stone motherless last.....


11. Collingwood 2023 12 points

It is rather difficult to restrain myself from laughing at you Fadge.

 

[Fadge]

It is rather difficult to restrain myself from laughing at you Fadge.

It's actually rather difficult for me to restrain myself from laughing at you. Actually, it's more pity.

In a competition where teams can play up to 26 games per season, you disregard 84% to 88% of the games and focus only on final margins in 3 games in order to form a conclusion.

I guess that what happens when you're:
1. Unbelievably lazy, and
2. Watch stats sheets instead of games of football.

 

[Meteoric Rise]

It's actually rather difficult for me to restrain myself from laughing at you. Actually, it's more pity.

In a competition where teams can play up to 26 games per season, you disregard 84% to 88% of the games and focus only on final margins in 3 games in order to form a conclusion.

I guess that what happens when you're:
1. Unbelievably lazy, and
2. Watch stats sheets instead of games of football.

The trouble is, it is inescapable that if Collingwood were better than most Premiers of the last decade as you claim....they would have played better in the finals than most Premiers of the last decade. It is not like there was anything stopping them doing so if they were good enough. They played worse than all of them in the finals, and not by some bare margin either. Collingwood's total finals winning margins were less than 1/6th of the 10th best of the other 10 Premiership teams. Put another way, Collingwood's winning margins in finals were 1/10th of the median of all other Premiers of the last decade. Your statement had Collingwood ABOVE the median Premier of the last decade.

It is not like Collingwood had one finals game where a few things went wrong. They had 3 finals games where a lot went right, against teams with as many as 10 home and away losses, two of those teams playing interstate away on Collingwood's home ground, and Collingwood could not defeat any of them by more than 7 points. The MAXIMUM amount of finals any other Premier in this sample played that went to a margin under 15 points was 1. Every other Premier of the last decade won at least 1 of their finals matches by at least 39 points. Collingwood were not in control at any stage of any of their finals until the dying moments at the earliest.

You can talk about considering 100% of matches all you like. If you truly consider everything properly then you cannot just ignore what has taken place in the only 3 matches every team HAS to win to win a flag, the Grand Final, the Preliminary Final, and at least one other final.

And imitating my posts, whilst flattering to me, only makes you look bereft. You need to get your own material. Adopting Brian Taylor's terminology makes you look like a simpleton.

 

[Fadge]

The trouble is, it is inescapable that if Collingwood were better than most Premiers of the last decade as you claim....they would have played better in the finals than most Premiers of the last decade. It is not like there was anything stopping them doing so if they were good enough. They played worse than all of them in the finals, and not by some bare margin either. Collingwood's total finals winning margins were less than 1/6th of the 10th best of the other 10 Premiership teams. Put another way, Collingwood's winning margins in finals were 1/10th of the median of all other Premiers of the last decade. Your statement had Collingwood ABOVE the median Premier of the last decade.

It is not like Collingwood had one finals game where a few things went wrong. They had 3 finals games where a lot went right, against teams with as many as 10 home and away losses, two of those teams playing interstate away on Collingwood's home ground, and Collingwood could not defeat any of them by more than 7 points. The MAXIMUM amount of finals any other Premier in this sample played that went to a margin under 15 points was 1. Every other Premier of the last decade won at least 1 of their finals matches by at least 39 points. Collingwood were not in control at any stage of any of their finals until the dying moments at the earliest.

You can talk about considering 100% of matches all you like. If you truly consider everything properly then you cannot just ignore what has taken place in the only 3 matches every team HAS to win to win a flag, the Grand Final, the Preliminary Final, and at least one other final.

And imitating my posts, whilst flattering to me, only makes you look bereft. You need to get your own material. Adopting Brian Taylor's terminology makes you look like a simpleton.

And here he goes again, doubling down on margins in 12% to 16% of games.

Boy oh boy Wowee...

 

[Meteoric Rise]

And here he goes again, doubling down on margins in 12% to 16% of games.

Boy oh boy Wowee...

In this caper you need to know how to work an angle Fadge. You posting idiotic Brian Taylor sayings ad nauseum is not getitng it done.

But we better tell the AFL to stop awarding the Premiership to the Grand Final winner as it is only less than half of 1% of all matches played in a season. It is just that it is the most important less than half of 1% of all matches, more important than the other 99.5+% of matches added together.

There is no escaping this incontrovertible fact. On the biggest stages, when it was all on the line, Collingwood relied on luck to fall over the line 3 times in succession. No other Premier in history has done that. That is why pure and simple Collingwood 2023 is the weakest Premier we have ever seen, K Mart BT.

 

[Fadge]

In this caper you need to know how to work an angle Fadge. You posting idiotic Brian Taylor sayings ad nauseum is not getitng it done.

But we better tell the AFL to stop awarding the Premiership to the Grand Final winner as it is only less than half of 1% of all matches played in a season. It is just that it is the most important less than half of 1% of all matches, more important than the other 99.5+% of matches added together.

There is no escaping this incontrovertible fact. On the biggest stages, when it was all on the line, Collingwood relied on luck to fall over the line 3 times in succession. No other Premier in history has done that. That is why pure and simple Collingwood 2023 is the weakest Premier we have ever seen, K Mart BT.

Margins and 12% to 16% of games.

Boy oh boy Wowee.

I do have to correct you though. The AFL award the premiership cup as a result of the culmination of the entire season, where the two best teams have earned the right to compete for the ultimate prize.

It's not just based on the one match, where the competing teams are selected by some random simulator.

 

[cliffdrabble]

YIn this caper you need to know how to work an angle Fadge. You posting idiotic Brian Taylor sayings ad nauseum is not getitng it done.

But we better tell the AFL to stop awarding the Premiership to the Grand Final winner as it is only less than half of 1% of all matches played in a season. It is just that it is the most important less than half of 1% of all matches, more important than the other 99.5+% of matches added together.

There is no escaping this incontrovertible fact. On the biggest stages, when it was all on the line, Collingwood relied on luck to fall over the line 3 times in succession. No other Premier in history has done that. That is why pure and simple Collingwood 2023 is the weakest Premier we have ever seen, K Mart BT.

Your stats argument is just flawed rubbish. The comp has evened up considerably in the last few years. It is much harder to win a flag than it has ever been. You basically have 10 really good sides atm. But due to the addition to make 18 sides, the standard has dropped.

Richmond didn't play finals and probably will not for another 30 odd years. Your coach buggered off because he could see the cliff and the years of drought ahead.

The Geelong premiership side of 2011 would have thrashed the Richmond premiership sides of 2017 and 2019. Even our 2011 side would have thrashed them. So I wouldn't go rating Premiership sides, including us, of the last 10 years as they are all weaker than the premiers between 2000 and 2011.

Richmond won easily in 2017 and 2019 because they had very weak opponents on GF day. The luck of the draw. We demonstrated what a mediocre premier they were by thrashing them in the 2018 PF.

 

[Meteoric Rise]

Your stats argument is just flawed rubbish. The comp has evened up considerably in the last few years. It is much harder to win a flag than it has ever been. You basically have 10 really good sides atm. But due to the addition to make 18 sides, the standard has dropped.

Richmond didn't play finals and probably will not for another 30 odd years. Your coach buggered off because he could see the cliff and the years of drought ahead.

The Geelong premiership side of 2011 would have thrashed the Richmond premiership sides of 2017 and 2019. Even our 2011 side would have thrashed them. So I wouldn't go rating Premiership sides, including us, of the last 10 years as they are all weaker than the premiers between 2000 and 2011.

Richmond won easily in 2017 and 2019 because they had very weak opponents on GF day. The luck of the draw. We demonstrated what a mediocre premier they were by thrashing them in the 2018 PF.

Like most Collingwood supporters you are new to discussions about teams who win Grand Finals. And frankly, it shows in your post. You'd have been better off following Hawthorn or Richmond to be honest.

 

[Danw0w]

Your stats argument is just flawed rubbish. The comp has evened up considerably in the last few years. It is much harder to win a flag than it has ever been. You basically have 10 really good sides atm. But due to the addition to make 18 sides, the standard has dropped.

Richmond didn't play finals and probably will not for another 30 odd years. Your coach buggered off because he could see the cliff and the years of drought ahead.

The Geelong premiership side of 2011 would have thrashed the Richmond premiership sides of 2017 and 2019. Even our 2011 side would have thrashed them. So I wouldn't go rating Premiership sides, including us, of the last 10 years as they are all weaker than the premiers between 2000 and 2011.

Richmond won easily in 2017 and 2019 because they had very weak opponents on GF day. The luck of the draw. We demonstrated what a mediocre premier they were by thrashing them in the 2018 PF.

Collingwood win = even competition
Richmond win = weak opponents

Collingwood fans win gold in the mental gymnastics!!

 

[Fadge]

Richmond didn't play finals and probably will not for another 30 odd years. Your coach buggered off because he could see the cliff and the years of drought ahead.

How true this is.

Noone does multi-decade periods of irrelevancy like Richmond does.

22 years with 0 finals wins between 1945 and 1966.

34 years of no better than a semi-final win between 1983 and 2016.

They now have a list that could take them into a 40 plus year period of irrelevancy.

No wonder they've been so insufferable over the past few years.... they do have to make hay whilst the sun shone, albeit so briefly...

 

[cliffdrabble]

Like most Collingwood supporters you are new to discussions about teams who win Grand Finals. And frankly, it shows in your post. You'd have been better off following Hawthorn or Richmond to be honest.

No, my father followed Richmond and one of our cousins was PRESIDENT of Richmond during the 1980's, so I was quite pleased they won their 3 recent flags. Family is related to Collingwood team of the century player, who should have been AFL/VFL team of the century player, no thanks to a biased David f...g Parkin call. That's why I follow the Pies.

Much better than following the Tiges.

As for following Hawthorn, I would not care if they won every year, I could never follow the team with the ugliest jumper in world sport. The embarrassment would be life threatening.

My point still stands, all the last 10 premiers are weaker than the 2000-2011 premiers. It is irrelevant how much teams win by in any particular game or games. In 2009, you had 2 teams that were worthy premiers in the GF, hence a close result. The same as this year. They are the GFs that are a lot harder to win.

 

[Todman]

I agree that Essendon 2000 was the best team I've seen but boy did they under-achieve. Just one premiership.

Their zenith came when North kicked 12 goals against them in 2001. Even thought they eventually won the game, North proved that the Bombers were vulnerable if you could get a run on.

 

[VinnieB]

I think you will find all Premiers get a cup and take a photo, so that isn't exactly unique. What is unique however is how poorly this Collingwood team performed in finals compared to the last decade of Premiers....

Accumulated finals winning margins for each Premier from 2013 onwards, highest to lowest:


1. Melbourne 2021 190 points
2. Geelong 2022 158 points
3. Richmond 2019 155 points
4. Hawthorn 2015 147 points
5. Richmond 2017 135 points
6. Hawthorn 2014 102 points
7. Bulldogs 2016 98 points
8. Eagles 2018 87 points
9. Richmond 2020 85 points*
10. Hawthorn 2013 74 points


and the wooden spooner by so far it must be embarrassing for you given your rather rash statement they are better than most Premiers of the last decade, whipping them in, tailed off stone motherless last.....


11. Collingwood 2023 12 points

It is rather difficult to restrain myself from laughing at you Fadge.

Is that the criteria in determining the quality of the premiers?

Looking at it another way, the Pies were the dominant team for 3/4 of the season and it’s fair to say they limped into finals towards the end. But to still be able to win each final when they weren’t in any sort of form says a lot about the quality of the team.

If the finals had been played 5 weeks earlier, the Pies probably would have won each finals by 5 goals + and the GF by 10 goals.

I can only suggest that the ‘worst’ teams to win a GF probably rank as the best teams for character.

And good to know we can still be shiit and win the GF. That probably also says a lot about a quality club.

By the way, how’s the ex-nephew going? Most likely thrilled he managed to dump the stale old uncle….

 

[Meteoric Rise]

Is that the criteria in determining the quality of the premiers?

Looking at it another way, the Pies were the dominant team for 3/4 of the season and it’s fair to say they limped into finals towards the end. But to still be able to win each final when they weren’t in any sort of form says a lot about the quality of the team.

If the finals had been played 5 weeks earlier, the Pies probably would have won each finals by 5 goals + and the GF by 10 goals.

I can only suggest that the ‘worst’ teams to win a GF probably rank as the best teams for character.

And good to know we can still be shiit and win the GF. That probably also says a lot about a quality club.

By the way, how’s the ex-nephew going? Most likely thrilled he managed to dump the stale old uncle….

Winning Grand Finals does say something about a club's character.

Collingwood have won 2 Grand Finals since before the Cuban missile crisis.

My ex-nephew is currently thinking about his behaviour.

 

[Meteoric Rise]

No, my father followed Richmond and one of our cousins was PRESIDENT of Richmond during the 1980's, so I was quite pleased they won their 3 recent flags. Family is related to Collingwood team of the century player, who should have been AFL/VFL team of the century player, no thanks to a biased David f...g Parkin call. That's why I follow the Pies.

Much better than following the Tiges.

As for following Hawthorn, I would not care if they won every year, I could never follow the team with the ugliest jumper in world sport. The embarrassment would be life threatening.

My point still stands, all the last 10 premiers are weaker than the 2000-2011 premiers. It is irrelevant how much teams win by in any particular game or games. In 2009, you had 2 teams that were worthy premiers in the GF, hence a close result. The same as this year. They are the GFs that are a lot harder to win.

All the blowout Grand Finals didn't seem too easy to win for the runners-up.

That is because they were bloody hard to win. Because those Premiers were very strong in their years. You don't get credit for letting a team almost beat you in a Grand Final that only ever won 1 final ever against a team with over 15 home and away wins - and that by less than a goal with less scoring shots.

 

[VinnieB]

All the blowout Grand Finals didn't seem too easy to win for the runners-up.

That is because they were bloody hard to win. Because those Premiers were very strong in their years. You don't get credit for letting a team almost beat you in a Grand Final that only ever won 1 final ever against a team with over 15 home and away wins - and that by less than a goal with less scoring shots.

Although the Tigers feared the Pies in finals since the te netional competition came into being.
Destroyed in the 2018 Prelim, and fortunate to not face the Pies in the 2019 GF, which the Pies probably would have won.

2020 wasn't even AFL.

 

[Captain_Bender]

Although the Tigers feared the Pies in finals since the te netional competition came into being.
Destroyed in the 2018 Prelim, and fortunate to not face the Pies in the 2019 GF, which the Pies probably would have won.

2020 wasn't even AFL.

Collingwood ducked Richmond in 2019

 

[VinnieB]

Richmond 2020 is the worst premiership team in what wasn’t really a true AFL season.
Only won 12 of 17 matches.
Failed to win all their finals (although Richmond ex-uncles prefer to lose games than win the close ones)
And has struggled since 2020

 

[Frappe]

Although the Tigers feared the Pies in finals since the te netional competition came into being.
Destroyed in the 2018 Prelim, and fortunate to not face the Pies in the 2019 GF, which the Pies probably would have won.

2020 wasn't even AFL.

I thought it was hard yards in 2020. As good as any of Tigers’ wins not based on opposition but conditions etc.

 

[Meteoric Rise]

Although the Tigers feared the Pies in finals since the te netional competition came into being.
Destroyed in the 2018 Prelim, and fortunate to not face the Pies in the 2019 GF, which the Pies probably would have won.

2020 wasn't even AFL.

Why would we fear meeting a team in finals who have only won 14% of their finals against us since WW2? Doesn't make sense. If anything we were complacent after destroying you in so many consecutive finals.

The only reason you beat us in 2018 was the the law of averages, it is actually impossible to lose 7 finals in succession against one team. Mind you, Carlton managed to go 12 finals against Richmond without winning one, but that club has always been able to achieve the impossible.

 

[Meteoric Rise]

Richmond 2020 is the worst premiership team in what wasn’t really a true AFL season.
Only won 12 of 17 matches.
Failed to win all their finals (although Richmond ex-uncles prefer to lose games than win the close ones)
And has struggled since 2020

Richmond proved in 2020 they can not only win a Premiership in a normal AFL season and finals series, they can win it in a randomly organised season played mainly in parts unknown, winning no less than 3 out of state finals, only of only 3 teams to ever achieve that, along with Adelaide 1998, and Melbourne 2021. I think you will find Collingwood has never achieved this.

Another thing Richmond achieved in 2020 of course was back to back AFL Premierships. Something Collingwood FC has NEVER achieved. In fact the last time Collingwood won back to back flags in any competition was a small matter of 87 years ago. That's a fair while Vinnie.

 

[VinnieB]

Richmond proved in 2020 they can not only win a Premiership in a normal AFL season and finals series, they can win it in a randomly organised season played mainly in parts unknown, winning no less than 3 out of state finals, only of only 3 teams to ever achieve that, along with Adelaide 1998, and Melbourne 2021. I think you will find Collingwood has never achieved this.

Another thing Richmond achieved in 2020 of course was back to back AFL Premierships. Something Collingwood FC has NEVER achieved. In fact the last time Collingwood won back to back flags in any competition was a small matter of 87 years ago. That's a fair while Vinnie.

Back to back in a competition that had a shortened and highly disrupted season and shortened quarters. Questionable whether it was a proper season.

But only achieved because you didn’t face the Pies in the GF. That Richmond team showed under pressure in a final against the Pies they just couldn’t handle it. You can watch the 2019 prelim again to see how that Richmond team melted on big occasion against the Pies.

 

[VinnieB]

Richmond proved in 2020 they can not only win a Premiership in a normal AFL season and finals series, they can win it in a randomly organised season played mainly in parts unknown, winning no less than 3 out of state finals, only of only 3 teams to ever achieve that, along with Adelaide 1998, and Melbourne 2021. I think you will find Collingwood has never achieved this.

Another thing Richmond achieved in 2020 of course was back to back AFL Premierships. Something Collingwood FC has NEVER achieved. In fact the last time Collingwood won back to back flags in any competition was a small matter of 87 years ago. That's a fair while Vinnie.

Do you think you’ll be alive to watch the Tigers participate in another GF? Has the ex-Uncle got another 30 years left in him?

 

[Meteoric Rise]

Back to back in a competition that had a shortened and highly disrupted season and shortened quarters. Questionable whether it was a proper season.

But only achieved because you didn’t face the Pies in the GF. That Richmond team showed under pressure in a final against the Pies they just couldn’t handle it. You can watch the 2019 prelim again to see how that Richmond team melted on big occasion against the Pies.

With pleasure.

 

[Meteoric Rise]

Do you think you’ll be alive to watch the Tigers participate in another GF? Has the ex-Uncle got another 30 years left in him?

Nobody knows what the future brings my friend. My club had the equal worst list in the AFL in 2016 according to David King. I recall waking up one morning a bit over 4 years later to realise that we had somehow won 3 of the last 4 AFL Premierships with a list as bad as Carlton's.

If you want more detail about supporting a dynasty team, don't be coy, just ask.