Opinion The Shield and Ribbon: Updating the Sacred

Winmar2Lockett

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#51
Yeah. It was just a post, not a thread. Sorry if i'm being repetitive, the nitpicky side of me screams every time I see the logo.
I'm also looking for avenues to get this to the club, so feel free to pass it on if possible guys.
Love it SF

I think we underplay our colours and the strength of our crest.

Red White and Black should be more prominent in all of our marketing... Halos on is OK but RWB is bold.
 

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SFgiant

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Thread starter #52
For me, the font used in our crest is as iconic as the crest itself, I can't imagine changing it in anything more than a very subtle way. That K has to be vertically symmetrical in the middle, that C at the end has to be round, the stroke width is absolutely perfect like it is, it doesn't look out of date at all, it just. looks. timeless.

And I probably agree with the 1st and 3rd points in the below post from this discussion, but I don't see a way to make it happen in an acceptable way. Any time I've seen the ST. K. F. C. replaced by St Kilda or even ST KILDA it just looks wrong.

But then again, I like that us and the Blues are the only 2 clubs to not have our names or nicknames on the logo. We don't need to because we're icons. Live like icons.
I've noticed that you're quite attached to the Futura font but not at all attached to the ST. K.F.C. It's just an interesting point, as the word itself has been on the logo far longer than the typeface.

I spent ages looking for a font that matches up to the old St Kilda station signage (I know that means nothing). I thought it might give it a bit more meaning (and a few more points if it were to go higher up). I find Futura to be a little bit too generic, but to each their own.

Insterestingly, one of SFGiant's earlier desgins is more appealing, although the stroke width of the new font is still a bit too thin. (PS: Loved his version of the Pies and Crows logos though!)

https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/modern-retro-club-logos.1049779/
Ooof, thank god for the motivation that made me learn Illustrator.

My 2 Bob's worth, my honest view not meaning to offend:

The black outline really doesn't work for me. I agree with the theory on the original being thin but that isn't the solution. The club have got the right idea making a white outline as seen above but as SFGiant states, that won't work on a white background.

Other than that, it's fine. I like the reshaping of the ribbon. It's still better than a lot of versions.
Regarding the outline, you've just crossed out all three options. Obviously I think mine is best suited, but this feels like you're being picky for picky's sake.

I also don't necessarily agree that our logo stands out as outdated amongst the other 17, or that it's time for a change. A word of caution against making changes too linked to current fashions: they look out of date quickly! Look at a lot of the AFL logos from the 90s like Freo and Essendon.
Tradition doesn't fade. I'm yet to see a traditional logo from the 90s that is now outdated. The problem with the 90s was that the majority of logos were gimmicky messes (see the NBA). Indeed they did date quickly, because designers and team owners quickly came to their senses.
 

gringo2011

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#53
I've noticed that you're quite attached to the Futura font but not at all attached to the ST. K.F.C. It's just an interesting point, as the word itself has been on the logo far longer than the typeface.

I spent ages looking for a font that matches up to the old St Kilda station signage (I know that means nothing). I thought it might give it a bit more meaning (and a few more points if it were to go higher up). I find Futura to be a little bit too generic, but to each their own.



Ooof, thank god for the motivation that made me learn Illustrator.



Regarding the outline, you've just crossed out all three options. Obviously I think mine is best suited, but this feels like you're being picky for picky's sake.



Tradition doesn't fade. I'm yet to see a traditional logo from the 90s that is now outdated. The problem with the 90s was that the majority of logos were gimmicky messes (see the NBA). Indeed they did date quickly, because designers and team owners quickly came to their senses.

I'm a bit of a futura fan too. It just looks right and has a traditional look about it. It's got a nice roundness.
 

austinnn

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#54
I've noticed that you're quite attached to the Futura font but not at all attached to the ST. K.F.C. It's just an interesting point, as the word itself has been on the logo far longer than the typeface.

I spent ages looking for a font that matches up to the old St Kilda station signage (I know that means nothing). I thought it might give it a bit more meaning (and a few more points if it were to go higher up). I find Futura to be a little bit too generic, but to each their own.



Ooof, thank god for the motivation that made me learn Illustrator.



Regarding the outline, you've just crossed out all three options. Obviously I think mine is best suited, but this feels like you're being picky for picky's sake.



Tradition doesn't fade. I'm yet to see a traditional logo from the 90s that is now outdated. The problem with the 90s was that the majority of logos were gimmicky messes (see the NBA). Indeed they did date quickly, because designers and team owners quickly came to their senses.
I am pretty attached to the ST. K. F. C. because as I said having St Kilda there just looks totally wrong. That said, I suppose it's not as marketable. We think we're iconic enough to get away with it, but if we get more desperate to increase our fanbase, guess which idea marketers will pitch.

Overall, I would keep the cresthead, futura font and inscription as is, or create a subtly different bespoke font of our own cos no other font I've seen even comes close.

The outline is hard because it's got to work better on a small scale, but thicken up the black outline and it starts looking a bit like a stained glass window. That's why the white outline works, it's far less intrusive, works great with the white BG of the shield doesn't clutter up the separation between the white shield and red band at the top. Can't figure out a way to make it work on a white BG as you have said.

Picky for pickys sake, that's your opinion. Others would say this entire proposal is pedantic. I'm not having a go, I really appreciate your work. I suppose I've got very precise ideas about what I don't like, without having the skills or time to show you what I do like, but in my opinion, the current club crest on a black BG with your suggestions about aligning the curve of the crest and ribbon, and maybe using the futura font on the Latin inscription would be where I'd leave it.
 

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Thread starter #57
Picky for pickys sake, that's your opinion. Others would say this entire proposal is pedantic. I'm not having a go, I really appreciate your work. I suppose I've got very precise ideas about what I don't like, without having the skills or time to show you what I do like, but in my opinion, the current club crest on a black BG with your suggestions about aligning the curve of the crest and ribbon, and maybe using the futura font on the Latin inscription would be where I'd leave it.
About the background issue. The logo must work on all backgrounds. You can’t restrict it to one colour. Think of the logo on the top of a letter. Having it in a black square background is, simply put, not a good look. It comes across as amateurish, like an employee just googling a pic of the logo and slapping it on. The primary logo of an organisation should intergrate in to all applications. The background shouldn’t be incorporated in to the logo itself.

+1 to my pedantic levels. It’s the reason I got in to making logos..
 

gringo2011

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#58
I am pretty attached to the ST. K. F. C. because as I said having St Kilda there just looks totally wrong. That said, I suppose it's not as marketable. We think we're iconic enough to get away with it, but if we get more desperate to increase our fanbase, guess which idea marketers will pitch.

Overall, I would keep the cresthead, futura font and inscription as is, or create a subtly different bespoke font of our own cos no other font I've seen even comes close.

The outline is hard because it's got to work better on a small scale, but thicken up the black outline and it starts looking a bit like a stained glass window. That's why the white outline works, it's far less intrusive, works great with the white BG of the shield doesn't clutter up the separation between the white shield and red band at the top. Can't figure out a way to make it work on a white BG as you have said.

Picky for pickys sake, that's your opinion. Others would say this entire proposal is pedantic. I'm not having a go, I really appreciate your work. I suppose I've got very precise ideas about what I don't like, without having the skills or time to show you what I do like, but in my opinion, the current club crest on a black BG with your suggestions about aligning the curve of the crest and ribbon, and maybe using the futura font on the Latin inscription would be where I'd leave it.

Talking of typeface designers look up Eric Gill, he was a bizarre old deviant way before his time. Renner who did Futura was the opposite, he was a staid dull German campaigner that was trying to reduce ornament to the point of sending people to sleep. Still a good typeface though. If you get 100 years out of anything and it still looks modern you're going well.
 

austinnn

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#59
Talking of typeface designers look up Eric Gill, he was a bizarre old deviant way before his time. Renner who did Futura was the opposite, he was a staid dull German campaigner that was trying to reduce ornament to the point of sending people to sleep. Still a good typeface though. If you get 100 years out of anything and it still looks modern you're going well.


Far out mate, you're a font geek as well. I'm definitely buying you a beer if I'm ever back in Aus, or a bottle of wine if you ever drop into France again!
 

austinnn

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#60
About the background issue. The logo must work on all backgrounds. You can’t restrict it to one colour. Think of the logo on the top of a letter. Having it in a black square background is, simply put, not a good look. It comes across as amateurish, like an employee just googling a pic of the logo and slapping it on. The primary logo of an organisation should intergrate in to all applications. The background shouldn’t be incorporated in to the logo itself.

+1 to my pedantic levels. It’s the reason I got in to making logos..
Understood. That's why it's hard to solve. I don't think your proposal is the answer in regards to that issue, for previously stated reasons, but maybe I'll get used to it.

How would it look with a white border then a black outer border, kind of the opposite of how you have it with the red background?
 
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austinnn

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#61
I have a confession. I was strictly anti-stickman. But after seeing the flag fly behind the goals and this picture..
View attachment 474500
I am converted. It just looked so crisp. Here's my crack at it. I'll add it to my logo system soon.
View attachment 475127
I agree that the stickman neon sign looks awesome and I reckon the saints could flog a few of them off to members and make some cash.

I prefer the flying stickman illustrated previously but both are great. Retro classic!

Otherwise that banner looks good, I'd erase the black border on the initials and have white text on red BG.
 

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SFgiant

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Understood. That's why it's hard to solve. I don't think your proposal is the answer in regards to that issue, for previously stated reasons, but maybe I'll get used to it.

How would it look with a white border then a black outer border, kind of the opposite of how you have it with the red background?
Here's a very crude crack..

It looks like someone has inverted the colours. In most logos, the darker colour defines the logo, whilst the lighter colour protects(?) it from background noise. Check out this site. Most logos follow this 'rule', but you will find ones that support your ideas though so idk.

My concept is just a refined version of how I used to draw the logo as a kid. I'd do the lines first, add the cross and words later. This version looks too complicated for a child to draw.

I prefer the flying stickman illustrated previously but both are great. Retro classic!

Otherwise that banner looks good, I'd erase the black border on the initials and have white text on red BG.
I like the 60s vibe of the neon saint for obvious reasons. The saint taking a mark feels a little less kid friendly and more robotic. I'm sorry if you guys have yet to see it, but I always see a restroom man taking a mark..

The STK can be easily mixed and matched, I just like that the outline uses all 3 colours. Your Idea would look awesome on a red hat with a black bill, as it mimics the logo.
 
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austinnn

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#64
Here's a very crude crack..
View attachment 475543
It looks like someone has inverted the colours. In most logos, the darker colour defines the logo, whilst the lighter colour protects(?) it from background noise. Check out this site. Most logos follow this 'rule', but you will find ones that support your ideas though so idk.

My concept is just a refined version of how I used to draw the logo as a kid. I'd do the lines first, add the cross and words later. This version looks too complicated for a child to draw.



I like the 60s vibe of the neon saint for obvious reasons. The saint taking a mark feels a little less kid friendly and more robotic. I'm sorry if you guys have yet to see it, but I always see a restroom man taking a mark..

The STK can be easily mixed and matched, I just like that the outline uses all 3 colours. Your Idea would look awesome on a red hat with a black bill, as it mimics the logo.
That version is definitely my favourite! Does it work on a small scale or is it too cluttered?

The font is still a problem for me, I'm just one guy so maybe it's irrelevant, but personally it's irritating that the other letters in ST. K. F. C. are thinner than the little T, which has more appealing dimensions. I guess I can't get past the futura love!

The 3 colour philosophy is interesting, and again is a subjective thing, with no rights or wrongs...

My view is that 3 colour designs (particularly black, white and red) pack more of a punch when the 3rd colour is sparsely used as a highlight on top of a two-tone design, rather than when it's 3 equal colours. Even if our jumper has 3 equal colours, I'm not sold on the need to always have all 3 colours in everything.

But if you need your fix of black ink, how about rather than a black outline (outlines aren't very fashionable nowadays) how about a thick black underline the same stroke width as the letters or even 'rails' above and below the text like the classic Run DMC logo?

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipe.../Run-DMC_Logo.svg/1024px-Run-DMC_Logo.svg.png

Who cares what one person thinks? Anyway, its interesting to have this conversation even if we don't agree. Cheers!
 
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Diehard Saint

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#65
My two cents worth.....

As a graphic designer in my "previous life" pre- immigration, I think your revisions (not re-design) of the logo is great. It's modern, it's bold, it's fresh and it makes a statement commensurate with our move back to our updated and modernised home. I love the vibrancy the bolder black gives...look how great it looked on the guernseys this past week.

Nothing wrong with the futura font, but the only tweak I'd make would be to very slightly widen the white part of the banner as, with the wording in it, it looks optically a little thinner.

Of course, not having grown up with club I can see where some people might like to keep the historic one, but as far as I'm concerned, you've got my vote.
 

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Thread starter #66
With the current form of the club and the recent talk of our vanilla-ness as an organisation, I thought I might have a crack at recreating the old patch crest.

A few clubs have taken this route, using different versions of logos on different applications. Carlton springs to mind immediately of course. The NY Yankees also do this, using a different NY logo on their hats, jerseys and digital applications.

Any who, her she is.
oldyPresentation.png
 

austinnn

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#68
B U M P

All the cool kids are doing it..
View attachment 565080
I like the logo in your avatar actually. Simplistic monochrome logo reductions are back in style, and the stripe is stylish and anarchic at the same time, everything our club should be (but isn't right now).
 

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Hey guys, I know this thread is dead but I'd just like to share some of my ideas somewhere..
I had a crack at redoing the Saints HOF logo as seen below.
Screen Shot 2018-11-08 at 9.45.44 pm.png

Obviously it was (is) in desperate need of some TLC.
Here's what I came up with.
MonogramSTKFC.png

Let me know what you guys think.
 

austinnn

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#72
Hey guys, I know this thread is dead but I'd just like to share some of my ideas somewhere..
I had a crack at redoing the Saints HOF logo as seen below.
View attachment 582634
Obviously it was (is) in desperate need of some TLC.
Here's what I came up with.
View attachment 582636
Let me know what you guys think.
Magnificent! Keep going, I really appreciate your work.

Would be great to see your contributions on the FJGD board.

I don't know if you do jumper designs but I'd be interested in your take on a specific jumper for the China match with more emphasis in red.
 

SFgiant

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Thread starter #73
Magnificent! Keep going, I really appreciate your work.

Would be great to see your contributions on the FJGD board.

I don't know if you do jumper designs but I'd be interested in your take on a specific jumper for the China match with more emphasis in red.
Thanks! I used to be more active there, but lost interest. I only focus on the Saints and other clubs in desperate need of logo updates, hence why I don't participate in any of the comps. I might have a go at Maddie's match and China guernseys soon.
 

lewdogs

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#74
Thanks! I used to be more active there, but lost interest. I only focus on the Saints and other clubs in desperate need of logo updates, hence why I don't participate in any of the comps. I might have a go at Maddie's match and China guernseys soon.
Thanks SFgiant. I love your logos and the work you do... I hope the club come around to it at some stage.

With a fairly new admin team and the club looking to move in a new direction, perhaps you should pitch your ideas to them again?
 

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Thanks SFgiant. I love your logos and the work you do... I hope the club come around to it at some stage.

With a fairly new admin team and the club looking to move in a new direction, perhaps you should pitch your ideas to them again?
Good idea. I might do just that. I can focus on a proposal presentation once I finish these last few days of School and send it in.
 
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