Review The Slide Continues - Rd 17 v Carlton Review

[Taylor]

Yeah they were - yet they were still in a more respected place than the ten teams who are up and down and all over the place.

Sure fans want the next step. We all do. I am just saying the long stretches of finals play and winning finals is underrated.

And I suspect the $250,000 to $500,000 extra in payments to players not included in the salary cap is very helpful in maintaining success too.

 

[Johnny Dalmas]

He was 10m away from the mark and Jye ran straight up an open corridor towards the ball carrier who ignored him.

Amiss should have been taking the shot on goal from 35m out straight in front.

When the coach talks about players playing within themselves and not for each other, that's what it is. Too scared to take the kick with all the value reward behind it.

Its all very well for the coach to talk. But I would like to see him do something about it. He has had all effing season.

Right now JL reminds me of a consultant who can do the analysis to show you what the problem is. And do a nice sober presentation about it with a good PowerPoint deck.

But who can't actually manage or action the change required.

 

[Freomaniac]

Yeah I am onboard with that. Sure, everyone wants a flag but long periods of sustained winning seasons are underrated.

We just can't afford to waste huge chunks of our better players prime like we did with Sandi, Pav and McPharlin.

I absolutely agree.... Guys like Sandi, Pav, McPharlin all saw sustained finals success in 2012-15. All 3 blokes were at least 30 years old in 2012.

But then you look back at the 2000-2010 period. Only made finals in 2003, 2006 and 2010.

I would of loved Freo to make finals in 2003-06. Would of been looked back more fondly.

Guys like Paul Hasleby, Troy Cook and Roger Hayden never got the honours and accolades they deserved at the dockers. Roger Hayden especially. He would of got all Australian at least once in the backline if Freo were consistently good from 2003-7.

This is why I am worried about Fyfe and Walters playing finals in 2024-5, as players in decline.

 

[Taylor]

Its all very well for the coach to talk. But I would like to see him do something about it. He has had all effing season.

Right now JL reminds me of a consultant who can do the analysis to show you what the problem is. And do a nice sober presentation about it with a good PowerPoint deck.

But who can't actually manage or action the change required.

I think it's the leadership group of the players who need to take a stand with it more than the coaches. Someone needs to be dropped who would otherwise in fantastic form because they didn't take what I would label "the team first option" because it was too risky from an individual player perspective.

The team needs to be behind the idea that players will be retained in the side for having 30 turnovers kicking exactly where the team wants the ball kicked and the guy who had 100% disposal efficiency will be dropped because he never chose the "team first" kick.

The media will jump on a player for turnovers and celebrate a high disposal efficiency stat in another player - but if we don't move the ball aggressively we will lose.

The team need to be the ones leading that directive.

 

[Johnny Dalmas]

Yeah I am onboard with that. Sure, everyone wants a flag but long periods of sustained winning seasons are underrated.

We just can't afford to waste huge chunks of our better players prime like we did with Sandi, Pav and McPharlin.

I think that focussing on making finals year in and year out is the best way to win a premiership. These aren't binary options.

Sure the Dees came from nowhere to grab a flag at Optus, but most clubs only get there by regularly playing finals.

 

[Johnny Dalmas]

... Someone needs to be dropped who would otherwise in fantastic form because they didn't take what I would label "the team first option" because it was too risky from an individual player perspective.

The team needs to be behind the idea that players will be retained in the side for having 30 turnovers kicking exactly where the team wants the ball kicked and the guy who had 100% disposal efficiency will be dropped because he never chose the "team first" kick.
....

Yes Taylor this is exactly what I am talking about!

The Coach needs to set standards, even if they caused short term pain.

There is one thing that all successful professional athletes are used to: swallowing tough feedback and making choices to change based on that feedback.

And there is no tougher feedback than seeing guys lose their place because they haven't done the right thing even if the rest of their game is good. Conversely if you keep on getting picked you obviously feel rewarded for what you are doing.

Do you want guys to play aggressively through the corridor? Then stop rewarding guys who refuse the corridor and just hoof it down the line.

Want to reward defensive pressure? Then stop picking half-forwards who refuse to tackle.

 

[Mags98]

Yeah they were - yet they were still in a more respected place than the ten teams who are up and down and all over the place.

Sure fans want the next step. We all do. I am just saying the long stretches of finals play and winning finals is underrated.

the journey is better than the destination

would rather ten years of competing than 1 premiership and falling off a cliff there after surely

 

[SiempreFreo]

I was at that sadly atrocious game. Some thoughts:

SIZE. Blues looked so much bigger than Freo. They bullied and out-bodied us. As ever Brayshaw and Serong tried all game but their talent was tidal-waved on Sunday.

(BTW, those bagging Andy downplay his team-carrying marathon for last several years and hard-earned swag of Brownlow votes. Caleb's trying to shoulder the burden this year but in a vacuum. See above.)

Sonny remains Class and should remain but we're a midget too many. If the whole team tried as hard as Shoota on Saturday we'd have done better - but as often he was trying on too many fronts. Switta was barely seen.

SPEED: When Carlton got the ball almost the whole team started streaming towards goal. Game now is move it at all costs, maybe take risks but MOVE. We didn't.

DEFENCE: We got problems. Yes blame Ryan/coach for those horrible predictable kick-ins down the line, but score would've been even worse without his intercepts. Pearce and Cox moved very stiffly. Close up Cox appeared to be nursing a hip or back problem. Who to replace them for size though?

DEPTH: I didn't want us to lose Acres or Logue, or Tucker particularly (or Mundy or Meek, but no choice there). Seemed very short-sighted of the club to pass up their big-bodied depth and experience. All 3 would've helped our cause on Saturday.

POSITION: freely admit I'm no expert, but would've been great to see Young and Clark's kicking, marking and line-breaking driving more attack. Wing and mid?

Aish, Mr Professional, was a small ray of light esp. in first half and Henry, who seemed a write-off earlier in season, continued a pleasing improvement in positioning and general play. Otherwise it was a hard game to watch.

Freo needs bigger players, better effort and bolder play and positioning.

 

[poshman]

And I suspect the $250,000 to $500,000 extra in payments to players not included in the salary cap is very helpful in maintaining success too.

Under rated comment. The league isn't even close to being interested in cleaning this up.

Nic Nats Uncle Trev comment highlights it perfectly. One of the disadvantages of being a younger club is not having the older generational wealth in the supporter base.

Collingwood, Geelong, Wce and some other clubs have at least a 10% advantage just from a salaries pov.

 

[Joao]

Under rated comment. The league isn't even close to being interested in cleaning this up.

Nic Nats Uncle Trev comment highlights it perfectly. One of the disadvantages of being a younger club is not having the older generational wealth in the supporter base.

Collingwood, Geelong, Wce and some other clubs have at least a 10% advantage just from a salaries pov.

I can solve this, you all on here gofundme 100k each and I'll become a wealthy Freo benefactor.

 

[Footskill]

Think big issue is self preservation mode, whether it be from individual or the line. Lack of trust in their team mates and playing selfish football.

For example, Ryan is getting applauded by number of touches he got on the weekend. Although he took some good intercept marks, his focus was slowing down the game, taking safe option long down the line. Makes his stats look good

Or you have the mids all going after the same ball to rack up possession count.

 

[King Tenz]

the journey is better than the destination

would rather ten years of competing than 1 premiership and falling off a cliff there after surely

Disagree entirely. I'll take one flag and years of up down nonsense like the Dogs post 2016 then whatever the hell journey Port Adelaide or even Brisbane has been on lately.

 

[Taylor]

Under rated comment. The league isn't even close to being interested in cleaning this up.

Nic Nats Uncle Trev comment highlights it perfectly. One of the disadvantages of being a younger club is not having the older generational wealth in the supporter base.

Collingwood, Geelong, Wce and some other clubs have at least a 10% advantage just from a salaries pov.

There is a league wide issue with wealthy supporters topping up the contracts of players at their favorite club, all outside the salary cap.

It's actually written on my pad here that outside influence development will lead to strength. Just imagine inviting low to medium profile SE Asian business people to a Fremantle Dockers experience. Fly them over, nice hotel, train with the guys (get photos with elite athletes for your social media or bragging to business associates), talk business to the club, be a respected father/mother figure for a few days - develop personal relationships with the players and then attend the game with the side.

Just really work the ego. Eventually we will snag some very financially powerful people who will want to make sure their team wins and suddenly real estate in Singapore starts being owned by Fremantle Football Club players/former players.

 

[poshman]

I can solve this, you all on here gofundme 100k each and I'll become a wealthy Freo benefactor.

Onl;y $100k from each... increase your expectations!

 

[gaskin]

You can't tell me Dale Alcock wasn't building homes for players on the cheap.

 

[Polly]

I'm as annoyed about the loss and the general performance of the team as the next Freo supporter, but I'm going to look at the situation from a positive standpoint.

Unfortunately our current list profile doesn't align with supporter expectations of making finals and impacting in September. We're just too young. It's as simple as that. This is what happens when we have to shed veterans and continually lose our mature, top end talent.

This team is going to go places provided we can keep them together, I'm sure of it. But, it's going to be up and down like this for another 12-24 months while we pump games into our kids and get them valuable experience. The club is backing JL to bring them through, and I'm okay with that because I honestly believe that there isn't an alternative coach out there who can immediately eliminate the inconsistencies of a super young team.

At this stage of the season, it's safe to say that our overall performance last year was the outlier, rather than the norm. Looking at this through the lens of positivity again, if our inconsistent team was able to produce that result last year, then how bloody good are we going to be once everyone has had another 50 games of experience and had more time to gel together as a team?

We're going to dominate.

Fans need to put up with a bit more short term pain, and list management need to do their part and ensure that we retain our key players. Freo fans know better than anyone that Premierships aren't easy to win, and we have waited sooooooooo very patiently.

As a member, I'm prepared to wear the pain for a bit longer if it's going to give us the best chance of achieving success. Hopefully others are too.

That’s what I was saying in 2005.

 

[Yeti]

Good to see the main board trolls have given up trolling the main board and are now on the Freo board.

You're club has achieved even less than us over the last 25 years, it's a bit sad how you carry on.

 

[Polly]

Geelong under Scott had one of those long finals runs that didn't get the job done until last year, the Cats fans were tearing their hair out over it.

I bet they enjoyed going to the footy every week.

 

[Dirty_banchez]

You can't tell me Dale Alcock wasn't building homes for players on the cheap.

There's a tradie shortage because they are all too busy building investment properties for the team.

 

[Alfonz]

Think big issue is self preservation mode, whether it be from individual or the line. Lack of trust in their team mates and playing selfish football.

For example, Ryan is getting applauded by number of touches he got on the weekend. Although he took some good intercept marks, his focus was slowing down the game, taking safe option long down the line. Makes his stats look good

Or you have the mids all going after the same ball to rack up possession count.

Ryan is copping a lot of heat, and some of it is warranted. The kick-ins especially. But most of the time he slows it down because there are no decent options to kick to, and there is no wave running from the fast defenders (Hughes, Clark, Walker, could bring Wilson in and move Young to midfield) to set up a short chip and/or handball receive and chain. It's just a swarm of short people flapping there arms in front of Ryan, with a large chance of them losing the air/ground battle unless the kick is speared onto a dime. This would be low % football and would be discouraged by JL.

Also, the self-preservation mode you mention starts with the coach, who is ultra defensive and won't give the players the licence to attack. I don't buy the horseshit being pedalled that it is the player's fault. JL's gameplan is "move the ball, but don't make any mistakes", whereas Macrae's gameplan is "move the ball, and I don't give a damn if you make a mistake". It's an enormous difference, but JL can still come out and say "I want the players to move the ball, but they aren't doing it", when that is entirely his fault for (1) not giving them proper freedom, and (2) selecting so many short players ahead of the defence.

 

[Footskill]

Ryan is copping a lot of heat, and some of it is warranted. The kick-ins especially. But most of the time he slows it down because there are no decent options to kick to, and there is no wave running from the fast defenders (Hughes, Clark, Walker, could bring Wilson in and move Young to midfield) to set up a short chip and/or handball receive and chain. It's just a swarm of short people flapping there arms in front of Ryan, with a large chance of them losing the air/ground battle unless the kick is speared onto a dime. This would be low % football and would be discouraged by JL.

Also, the self-preservation mode you mention starts with the coach, who is ultra defensive and won't give the players the licence to attack. I don't buy the horseshit being pedalled that it is the player's fault. JL's gameplan is "move the ball, but don't make any mistakes", whereas Macrae's gameplan is "move the ball, and I don't give a damn if you make a mistake". It's an enormous difference, but JL can still come out and say "I want the players to move the ball, but they aren't doing it", when that is entirely his fault for (1) not giving them proper freedom, and (2) selecting so many short players ahead of the defence.

Agree with alot of what you have said. The issue I have with Ryan when he has taken marks and there were instances players running past him or unmanned player for the shortish option, but he ignored them.

Difference with pies and dockers atm is they are more skilled. We constantly miss targets even under no pressure lol.