Roast The Worst

[yodellinhank]

I woke up this morning and, as is my habit, I checked to see whether Essendon had won the premiership or not. Alas, we had not. It has now been 6987 days and counting, the longest stretch this club has ever endured.

It got me wondering if this is the worst period club supporters have had to suffer through. Supporters who lived through the '70s often bang on about how those who didn't can't appreciate it isn't all beer and skittles. I wondered just how bad the '70s must have been in comparison, and I thought I'd go over the figures to see just how shit we are in terms relative to the history of the club.

There has been 3 notable premiership droughts in the club's history. 1925-1942 (6566 days), 1966-1984 (6944 days) and 2001-? (6987+ days). So absolutely, in terms of a drought this has been the worst. Given the size of the league, this is somewhat understandable. More teams competing for the premiership would make that premiership less likely to occur. But also the current drought doesn't look like breaking soon, whereas the other 2 were already completed in that time span, with some relatively successful seasons at either end. Finals during the earlier drought periods were harder to make, with only 33-42% of the competition qualifying as opposed to 44-50% in the recent era.

6566 days​	Wins​	Draws​	Losses​	Finals W​	Finals L​	Spoons​	Grand Finals​	Minor Premierships​
1925​	13​	​	4​	​	1​	​	​	​
1926​	12​	​	6​	1​	1​	​	​	​
1927​	6​	1​	11​	​	​	​	​	​
1928​	11​	​	7​	​	​	​	​	​
1929​	9​	1​	8​	​	​	​	​	​
1930​	10​	​	8​	​	​	​	​	​
1931​	10​	​	8​	​	​	​	​	​
1932​	10​	​	8​	​	​	​	​	​
1933​	2​	​	16​	​	​	1​	​	​
1934​	5​	​	13​	​	​	​	​	​
1935​	7​	​	11​	​	​	​	​	​
1936​	6​	​	12​	​	​	​	​	​
1937​	5​	​	13​	​	​	​	​	​
1938​	9​	​	9​	​	​	​	​	​
1939​	8​	​	10​	​	​	​	​	​
1940​	12​	​	6​	1​	1​	​	​	​
1941​	13​	​	5​	2​	1​	​	1​	​
​	148​	2​	155​	4​	4​	1​	1​	​
​	W% = 49​	​	​	W%: 50​	​	​	​	​
​	​	​	​	​	​	​	​	​
6944 days​	Wins​	Draws​	Losses​	Finals W​	Finals L​	Spoons​	Grand Finals​	Minor Premierships​
1966​	14​	​	4​	1​	1​	​	​	​
1967​	8​	1​	9​	​	​	​	​	​
1968​	16​	1​	3​	1​	2​	​	1​	1​
1969​	10​	1​	9​	​	​	​	​	​
1970​	6​	​	16​	​	​	​	​	​
1971​	4​	1​	17​	​	​	​	​	​
1972​	14​	​	8​	​	1​	​	​	​
1973​	13​	​	9​	​	1​	​	​	​
1974​	10​	​	12​	​	​	​	​	​
1975​	10​	​	12​	​	​	​	​	​
1976​	9​	​	13​	​	​	​	​	​
1977​	7​	1​	14​	​	​	​	​	​
1978​	8​	​	14​	​	​	​	​	​
1979​	12​	1​	9​	​	​	​	​	​
1980​	10​	​	12​	​	​	​	​	​
1981​	16​	​	6​	​	1​	​	​	​
1982​	16​	​	6​	​	1​	​	​	​
1983​	15​	​	7​	3​	1​	​	1​	​
​	184​	6​	176​	4​	7​	0​	2​	1​
​	W%= 50​	​	​	W%: 36​	​	​	​	​
​	​	​	​	​	​	​	​	​
6987 days​	Wins​	Draws​	Losses​	Finals W​	Finals L​	Spoons​	Grand Finals​	Minor Premierships​
2001​	17​	​	5​	2​	1​	​	1​	1​
2002​	12​	1​	9​	1​	1​	​	​	​
2003​	13​	​	9​	1​	1​	​	​	​
2004​	12​	​	10​	1​	1​	​	​	​
2005​	8​	​	14​	​	​	​	​	​
2006​	3​	1​	18​	​	​	​	​	​
2007​	10​	​	12​	​	​	​	​	​
2008​	8​	​	14​	​	​	​	​	​
2009​	10​	1​	11​	​	1​	​	​	​
2010​	7​	​	15​	​	​	​	​	​
2011​	11​	1​	10​	​	1​	​	​	​
2012​	11​	​	11​	​	​	​	​	​
2013​	14​	​	8​	​	​	​	​	​
2014​	12​	1​	9​	​	1​	​	​	​
2015​	6​	​	16​	​	​	​	​	​
2016​	3​	​	19​	​	​	1​	​	​
2017​	12​	​	10​	​	1​	​	​	​
2018​	12​	​	10​	​	​	​	​	​
2019​	12​	​	10​	​	1​	​	​	​
​	193​	5​	220​	5​	9	1​	1​	1​
​	W%= 46​	​	​	W% = 36​	​	​	​	​

Interested in people's thoughts around the worst period to suffer through. Anyone old enough to compare Garnett Campbell to John Worsfold would be great to hear from

 

[GUMBLETRON]

I'd take out 1941 and 1983 for a better comparison. Best case, the 2019 was the equivalent of 1940 or 1982.

 

[Haychh]

I woke up this morning and, as is my habit, I checked to see whether Essendon had won the premiership or not. Alas, we had not. It has now been 6987 days and counting, the longest stretch this club has ever endured.

It got me wondering if this is the worst period club supporters have had to suffer through. Supporters who lived through the '70s often bang on about how those who didn't can't appreciate it isn't all beer and skittles. I wondered just how bad the '70s must have been in comparison, and I thought I'd go over the figures to see just how shit we are in terms relative to the history of the club.

There has been 3 notable premiership droughts in the club's history. 1925-1942 (6566 days), 1966-1984 (6944 days) and 2001-? (6987+ days). So absolutely, in terms of a drought this has been the worst. Given the size of the league, this is somewhat understandable. More teams competing for the premiership would make that premiership less likely to occur. But also the current drought doesn't look like breaking soon, whereas the other 2 were already completed in that time span, with some relatively successful seasons at either end. Finals during the earlier drought periods were harder to make, with only 33-42% of the competition qualifying as opposed to 44-50% in the recent era.

6566 days​	Wins​	Draws​	Losses​	Finals W​	Finals L​	Spoons​	Grand Finals​	Minor Premierships​
1925​	13​	​	4​	​	1​	​	​	​
1926​	12​	​	6​	1​	1​	​	​	​
1927​	6​	1​	11​	​	​	​	​	​
1928​	11​	​	7​	​	​	​	​	​
1929​	9​	1​	8​	​	​	​	​	​
1930​	10​	​	8​	​	​	​	​	​
1931​	10​	​	8​	​	​	​	​	​
1932​	10​	​	8​	​	​	​	​	​
1933​	2​	​	16​	​	​	1​	​	​
1934​	5​	​	13​	​	​	​	​	​
1935​	7​	​	11​	​	​	​	​	​
1936​	6​	​	12​	​	​	​	​	​
1937​	5​	​	13​	​	​	​	​	​
1938​	9​	​	9​	​	​	​	​	​
1939​	8​	​	10​	​	​	​	​	​
1940​	12​	​	6​	1​	1​	​	​	​
1941​	13​	​	5​	2​	1​	​	1​	​
​	148​	2​	155​	4​	4​	1​	1​	​
​	W% = 49​	​	​	W%: 50​	​	​	​	​
​	​	​	​	​	​	​	​	​
6944 days​	Wins​	Draws​	Losses​	Finals W​	Finals L​	Spoons​	Grand Finals​	Minor Premierships​
1966​	14​	​	4​	1​	1​	​	​	​
1967​	8​	1​	9​	​	​	​	​	​
1968​	16​	1​	3​	1​	2​	​	1​	1​
1969​	10​	1​	9​	​	​	​	​	​
1970​	6​	​	16​	​	​	​	​	​
1971​	4​	1​	17​	​	​	​	​	​
1972​	14​	​	8​	​	1​	​	​	​
1973​	13​	​	9​	​	1​	​	​	​
1974​	10​	​	12​	​	​	​	​	​
1975​	10​	​	12​	​	​	​	​	​
1976​	9​	​	13​	​	​	​	​	​
1977​	7​	1​	14​	​	​	​	​	​
1978​	8​	​	14​	​	​	​	​	​
1979​	12​	1​	9​	​	​	​	​	​
1980​	10​	​	12​	​	​	​	​	​
1981​	16​	​	6​	​	1​	​	​	​
1982​	16​	​	6​	​	1​	​	​	​
1983​	15​	​	7​	3​	1​	​	1​	​
​	184​	6​	176​	4​	7​	0​	2​	1​
​	W%= 50​	​	​	W%: 36​	​	​	​	​
​	​	​	​	​	​	​	​	​
6987 days​	Wins​	Draws​	Losses​	Finals W​	Finals L​	Spoons​	Grand Finals​	Minor Premierships​
2001​	17​	​	5​	2​	1​	​	1​	1​
2002​	12​	1​	9​	1​	1​	​	​	​
2003​	13​	​	9​	1​	1​	​	​	​
2004​	12​	​	10​	1​	1​	​	​	​
2005​	8​	​	14​	​	​	​	​	​
2006​	3​	1​	18​	​	​	​	​	​
2007​	10​	​	12​	​	​	​	​	​
2008​	8​	​	14​	​	​	​	​	​
2009​	10​	1​	11​	​	1​	​	​	​
2010​	7​	​	15​	​	​	​	​	​
2011​	11​	1​	10​	​	1​	​	​	​
2012​	11​	​	11​	​	​	​	​	​
2013​	14​	​	8​	​	​	​	​	​
2014​	12​	1​	9​	​	​	​	​	​
2015​	6​	​	16​	​	​	​	​	​
2016​	3​	​	19​	​	​	1​	​	​
2017​	12​	​	10​	​	1​	​	​	​
2018​	12​	​	10​	​	​	​	​	​
2019​	12​	​	10​	​	1​	​	​	​
​	193​	5​	220​	5​	8​	1​	1​	1​
​	W%= 46​	​	​	W% = 38​	​	​	​	​

Interested in people's thoughts around the worst period to suffer through. Anyone old enough to compare Garnett Campbell to John Worsfold would be great to hear from

Our finals win percentage is in fact worse than that. You left out 2014 elimination

 

[yodellinhank]

Our finals win percentage is in fact worse than that. You left out 2014 elimination

Good spot. Edited.

 

[yodellinhank]

I'd take out 1941 and 1983 for a better comparison. Best case, the 2019 was the equivalent of 1940 or 1982.

Those years it would appear we had turned the corner. Here's hoping for your best case scenario.

I found it interesting also that there is 3 clear worst decades that fit neatly in those droughts:

​	Wins​	Draws​	Losses​	Finals W​	Finals L​	Spoons​
1930​	10​	​	8​	​	​	​
1931​	10​	​	8​	​	​	​
1932​	10​	​	8​	​	​	​
1933​	2​	​	16​	​	​	1​
1934​	5​	​	13​	​	​	​
1935​	7​	​	11​	​	​	​
1936​	6​	​	12​	​	​	​
1937​	5​	​	13​	​	​	​
1938​	9​	​	9​	​	​	​
1939​	8​	​	10​	​	​	​
​	72​	​	108​	​	​	1​
​	​	​	​	​	​	​
​	W% = 40​	​	​	​	​	​

​	Wins​	Draws​	Losses​	Finals W​	Finals L​	Spoons​
1970​	6​	​	16​	​	​	​
1971​	4​	1​	17​	​	​	​
1972​	14​	​	8​	​	1​	​
1973​	13​	​	9​	​	1​	​
1974​	10​	​	12​	​	​	​
1975​	10​	​	12​	​	​	​
1976​	9​	​	13​	​	​	​
1977​	7​	1​	14​	​	​	​
1978​	8​	​	14​	​	​	​
1979​	12​	1​	9​	​	​	​
​	93​	3​	124​	​	2​	​
​	​	​	​	​	​	​
​	W% = 42​	​	​	​	​	​

​	Wins​	Draws​	Losses​	Finals W​	Finals L​	Spoons​
2010​	7​	​	15​	​	​	​
2011​	11​	1​	10​	​	1​	​
2012​	11​	​	11​	​	​	​
2013​	14​	​	8​	​	​	​
2014​	12​	1​	9​	​	​	​
2015​	6​	​	16​	​	​	​
2016​	3​	​	19​	​	​	1​
2017​	12​	​	10​	​	1​	​
2018​	12​	​	10​	​	​	​
2019​	12​	​	10​	​	1​	​
​	100​	2​	118​	​	3​	1​
​	​	​	​	​	​	​
​	W% = 45​	​	​	​	​	​

 

[Old Campaigner]

I wonder if anyone at the club has considered playing football better as a way of turning this around?

 

[yodellinhank]

I wonder if anyone at the club has considered playing football better as a way of turning this around?

It's not about how you play it's about what you learn?

 

[TheGreatBarryB]

2012 to 2016...enough said

 

[The Donners]

We seem so far behind the rest of the competition both on the field and off (football department only) it right now, stemming from the way we rebuild/list management, fitness, development of players all the way through to teamwork and what appears as a lack of hunger for success.

It’s been said before but most players appear to be content with a pay check plus the coach considers 1 finals appearance, a smashing, as a successful season. A successful season is winning a premiership.

Our shit stinks. Maybe because “we are Essendon“ we think it doesn’t? Wake up and smell it ladies and gentlemen!

 

[Bunk Moreland]

When you take into account everything else that’s gone on, it’s undoubtedly been the worst period of our history.

The exit of Sheedy was always going to be an enormous test of the club. He defined us for over 25 years. We failed it in the worst way possible - literally could not have done it any worse - and we are still paying the price to this day.

Botched sacking of Sheedy

Botched hiring of Knights (still largely unexplainable why he was given the job)

Botched hiring of Hird and Bomber (no oversight) as we overcompensated to be “Essendon”

Disaster follows

Good hiring of Worsfold

Botched extension of Worsfold as we overcompensated for “stability”. The team has gone nowhere on field in 2018, 2019 and possibly now 2020. Possibly even beyond. Is Rutten the very best person for the job or are we again overcompensating for friendly headlines and “stability“?

We have two positives:

- Moving homes. I think we nailed it, we prioritised space and facilities so went to the outer suburbs. It could’ve been a St Kilda to Seaford exercise but on all evidence it was planned and executed very well, and all at the club are happy with it.

- The support. Oh my, the support. It is truly wondrous. Carlton had an off field disaster too and their support dropped. Other clubs in our position would’ve just about folded. We just keep growing. Essendon are a bit like Sunderland and Newcastle in England, a supporter base the size of which the club simply doesn’t deserve on any fair measure.

 

[thaibomber]

From memory the thing that made the 70's so bad was that 6 year period from '73 where we didn't appear in finals at all... that really was the worst. I was at windy hill for every home game during that time... memories of Geoff Blethyn soften the rottenness of it all but that was a very bad time to be a teenage Essendon supporter.

 

[ghostdog]

I woke up this morning and, as is my habit, I checked to see whether Essendon had won the premiership or not. Alas, we had not. It has now been 6987 days and counting, the longest stretch this club has ever endured.

It got me wondering if this is the worst period club supporters have had to suffer through. Supporters who lived through the '70s often bang on about how those who didn't can't appreciate it isn't all beer and skittles. I wondered just how bad the '70s must have been in comparison, and I thought I'd go over the figures to see just how shit we are in terms relative to the history of the club.

There has been 3 notable premiership droughts in the club's history. 1925-1942 (6566 days), 1966-1984 (6944 days) and 2001-? (6987+ days). So absolutely, in terms of a drought this has been the worst. Given the size of the league, this is somewhat understandable. More teams competing for the premiership would make that premiership less likely to occur. But also the current drought doesn't look like breaking soon, whereas the other 2 were already completed in that time span, with some relatively successful seasons at either end. Finals during the earlier drought periods were harder to make, with only 33-42% of the competition qualifying as opposed to 44-50% in the recent era.

6566 days​	Wins​	Draws​	Losses​	Finals W​	Finals L​	Spoons​	Grand Finals​	Minor Premierships​
1925​	13​	​	4​	​	1​	​	​	​
1926​	12​	​	6​	1​	1​	​	​	​
1927​	6​	1​	11​	​	​	​	​	​
1928​	11​	​	7​	​	​	​	​	​
1929​	9​	1​	8​	​	​	​	​	​
1930​	10​	​	8​	​	​	​	​	​
1931​	10​	​	8​	​	​	​	​	​
1932​	10​	​	8​	​	​	​	​	​
1933​	2​	​	16​	​	​	1​	​	​
1934​	5​	​	13​	​	​	​	​	​
1935​	7​	​	11​	​	​	​	​	​
1936​	6​	​	12​	​	​	​	​	​
1937​	5​	​	13​	​	​	​	​	​
1938​	9​	​	9​	​	​	​	​	​
1939​	8​	​	10​	​	​	​	​	​
1940​	12​	​	6​	1​	1​	​	​	​
1941​	13​	​	5​	2​	1​	​	1​	​
​	148​	2​	155​	4​	4​	1​	1​	​
​	W% = 49​	​	​	W%: 50​	​	​	​	​
​	​	​	​	​	​	​	​	​
6944 days​	Wins​	Draws​	Losses​	Finals W​	Finals L​	Spoons​	Grand Finals​	Minor Premierships​
1966​	14​	​	4​	1​	1​	​	​	​
1967​	8​	1​	9​	​	​	​	​	​
1968​	16​	1​	3​	1​	2​	​	1​	1​
1969​	10​	1​	9​	​	​	​	​	​
1970​	6​	​	16​	​	​	​	​	​
1971​	4​	1​	17​	​	​	​	​	​
1972​	14​	​	8​	​	1​	​	​	​
1973​	13​	​	9​	​	1​	​	​	​
1974​	10​	​	12​	​	​	​	​	​
1975​	10​	​	12​	​	​	​	​	​
1976​	9​	​	13​	​	​	​	​	​
1977​	7​	1​	14​	​	​	​	​	​
1978​	8​	​	14​	​	​	​	​	​
1979​	12​	1​	9​	​	​	​	​	​
1980​	10​	​	12​	​	​	​	​	​
1981​	16​	​	6​	​	1​	​	​	​
1982​	16​	​	6​	​	1​	​	​	​
1983​	15​	​	7​	3​	1​	​	1​	​
​	184​	6​	176​	4​	7​	0​	2​	1​
​	W%= 50​	​	​	W%: 36​	​	​	​	​
​	​	​	​	​	​	​	​	​
6987 days​	Wins​	Draws​	Losses​	Finals W​	Finals L​	Spoons​	Grand Finals​	Minor Premierships​
2001​	17​	​	5​	2​	1​	​	1​	1​
2002​	12​	1​	9​	1​	1​	​	​	​
2003​	13​	​	9​	1​	1​	​	​	​
2004​	12​	​	10​	1​	1​	​	​	​
2005​	8​	​	14​	​	​	​	​	​
2006​	3​	1​	18​	​	​	​	​	​
2007​	10​	​	12​	​	​	​	​	​
2008​	8​	​	14​	​	​	​	​	​
2009​	10​	1​	11​	​	1​	​	​	​
2010​	7​	​	15​	​	​	​	​	​
2011​	11​	1​	10​	​	1​	​	​	​
2012​	11​	​	11​	​	​	​	​	​
2013​	14​	​	8​	​	​	​	​	​
2014​	12​	1​	9​	​	1​	​	​	​
2015​	6​	​	16​	​	​	​	​	​
2016​	3​	​	19​	​	​	1​	​	​
2017​	12​	​	10​	​	1​	​	​	​
2018​	12​	​	10​	​	​	​	​	​
2019​	12​	​	10​	​	1​	​	​	​
​	193​	5​	220​	5​	9	1​	1​	1​
​	W%= 46​	​	​	W% = 36​	​	​	​	​

Interested in people's thoughts around the worst period to suffer through. Anyone old enough to compare Garnett Campbell to John Worsfold would be great to hear from

I laud your dedication. That is all.

 

[Westlo]

Now hands down.... already the longest period and we're a long way off while a grand finalist like GWS can continue to top up with elite talent every year via academy, trading players and pick swapping with their heap of resources.

How are we even going to climb back to the top when we can finish 10th the next 3 years and GWS Top 4 and they will inject better talent via draft and academies. Anyone ever play Football Manager? GWS are like when you sell a top player for 100m and buy 5 wonderkids who will be better in 2-3 seasons time for 20m each. Meanwhile we're an AI controlled team.

 

[Bunk Moreland]

Now hands down.... already the longest period and we're a long way off while a grand finalist like GWS can continue to top up with elite talent every year via academy, trading players and pick swapping with their heap of resources.

How are we even going to climb back to the top when we can finish 10th the next 3 years and GWS Top 4 and they will inject better talent via draft and academies. Anyone ever play Football Manager? GWS are like when you sell a top player for 100m and buy 5 wonderkids who will be better in 2-3 seasons time for 20m each. Meanwhile we're an AI controlled team.

How did Richmond do it?

 

[The Donners]

How did Richmond do it?

Their spine (Cotchin, Martin, Astbury, Rance, Riewoldt) in 2017 were drafted pre expansion.

They then traded in mature players like Prestia, Caddy, Houli, Grigg, Townsend, Nankervis, Lynch in 2019, and there is the nucleus of a good squad. None of those players are soft (Richmond managed to de-soft Houli).

They’ve managed to be very astute at picking up team-first role players in the middle to later stages of the National draft, pre season draft and rookie draft.

They also brought in the best football manager in the business, Neil Balme.

 

[jordanl]

We seem so far behind the rest of the competition both on the field and off (football department only) it right now, stemming from the way we rebuild/list management, fitness, development of players all the way through to teamwork and what appears as a lack of hunger for success.

It’s been said before but most players appear to be content with a pay check plus the coach considers 1 finals appearance, a smashing, as a successful season. A successful season is winning a premiership.

Our shit stinks. Maybe because “we are Essendon“ we think it doesn’t? Wake up and smell it ladies and gentlemen!

The time frame was 2021 to have proper tilts at a premiership. The rebuild is fine lol and so have our trades over the last 3 years. Accept that the processes have been in place since the drug saga and we are doing fine. The team strategies will be in place this year and we will end up in the top 6. Cant be rushed

 

[Godzke]

I do think the issues we have are mainly around player mentality. That notion that you never switch off. You're always in the game. There's always somewhere you can run to, someone you can chase quicker, someone you can tackle harder, etc.

Will be interesting to see how Rutten and Caracella run pre-season. I feel like the players need a camp to harden them up but then you look at what Adelaide did and you begin to worry how it might be handled by the players.

 

[CBombers17]

I've seen the club build for a couple of successful flag tilts and this crop is nowhere near it IMO.

People talking about a 2021 tilt when our off-season coup so far is retaining 2 of our contracted club 'leaders' (they certainly aren't leaders but they are 2 of our best payers), a nonsense transition year coming up, a bottom 5 midfield, aging Key talls and an unbalanced list.

We will be lucky to break our finals drought in the next 3 years let alone have a tilt at a flag.

 

[The Donners]

I've seen the club build for a couple of successful flag tilts and this crop is nowhere near it IMO.

People talking about a 2021 tilt when our off-season coup so far is retaining 2 of our contracted club 'leaders' (they certainly aren't leaders but they are 2 of our best payers), a nonsense transition year coming up, a bottom 5 midfield, aging Key talls and an unbalanced list.

We will be lucky to break our finals drought in the next 3 years let alone have a tilt at a flag.

It’s tough to swallow but you’re probably right.

 

[eth-dog]

Has to be the current period for me.

 

[Shanghaistu]

Current period by a country mile. At least the other lame decades in question didn’t have the saga (aka the gift that keeps on giving and who knows when it’s aftermath will really stop being felt)

 

[boncer34]

Current period by a country mile. At least the other lame decades in question didn’t have the saga (aka the gift that keeps on giving and who knows when it’s aftermath will really stop being felt)

What aftermath did we feel from it this year?

 

[Burzum]

I've seen the club build for a couple of successful flag tilts and this crop is nowhere near it IMO.

People talking about a 2021 tilt when our off-season coup so far is retaining 2 of our contracted club 'leaders' (they certainly aren't leaders but they are 2 of our best payers), a nonsense transition year coming up, a bottom 5 midfield, aging Key talls and an unbalanced list.

We will be lucky to break our finals drought in the next 3 years let alone have a tilt at a flag.

The real black pill.

 

[Shanghaistu]

What aftermath did we feel from it this year?

Only guessing, hope I’m wrong, but the draft picks we missed out on plus the tendency now to go light on the players and over-strive to be the ‘nice guys’ of the league, plus possibly being the only team taking no supplements now might be having an impact...

 

[Darealrath]

I'd argue this is the worst period a group of supporters have had to go through bar those who saw their club go extinct/merge/relocate.