News This should spice up the Essendon rivalry!

[Siri]

I had a crack on that board. Don't think it went down well.. Nothing offensive, didn't troll. Just trying to have a discussion. Not a lot positive came back which is unfortunate.

Obviously they are abit touchy after the 12 months they have had, but a few of them are jumping at shadows.

I got to get back on HawkHeadquarters if thats still around, lost my password

Roid rage brother! Don't make eye contact, keep a safe distance, no quick moves & walk slowly backwards ...

 

[bigmaxi]

If anyone can remember the speech Clarko made just after the GF win , he makes a big point of thanking Demitrio and Fitzpatrick for the work they did in a troubling time. Check it out , it is so aimed at the Essendon FC and Hird . That's why I love him . Don't be scared to speak your mind , the while the game is bigger than us all it still needs all the help it can get . I think he is the most relevant person in the AFl right now.

 

[Siri]

Well done Clarko. People are always encouraged to make their work place better, be professional, promote change & be dynamic. Why is this any different? Hird is a peer of Al's.

Maybe not an equal. Maybe a cheat. Maybe the golden child, but unfortunately he's still a peer (or at least he'll try to be in about 8 months time. Until then he's just um .. well ..).

 

[Flukey!]

I hope Essendon keep thinking the way they do for an eternity.
They will never be successful based on current attitudes and work practices.
Keep it up Bombers.

 

[Argy]

http://www.essendonfc.com.au/news/2014-02-18/open-letter-from-chairman-paul-little

Paul Little...

"In relation to an article published in The Age newspaper today, we are disappointed by what the Club deems as inappropriate comments made by Hawthorn coach Alastair Clarkson."

So Clarkson's comments about coaches needing to be accredited are inappropriate???

Sounds like Little is admitting that Hird would have cheated no matter what education and mentoring he had.

 

[HawkXNtric]

I don't know many Essendon supporters personally as I generally try to keep better company than that. However, there are 2 blokes that I catch up with occasionally who are Essendon supporters and I used to think were reasonably rational and intelligent. So I couldn't wait to see them and ask their honest opinion on this topic and see what they thought. I thought that I might hear a reasonably balanced response from them.

The result? Absolute denial that anything wrong has taken place at their club, the AFL has made a scapegoat out of them and penalised them with no basis whatsoever. And...even "if" the club did do something wrong, then every other club must have been doing it as well. Furthermore, James Hird is the messiah and they can't wait for him to come back next year and prove the doubters wrong. I kid you not. This is seriously what they think. I have been lost for words on very few occasions in my life, but this was one of them.

Denial? Delusional? Drug-affected? I don't know, but I hope that if the situation was reversed and it was the coach of my club that had single-handedly cost the club millions of dollars, let alone a place in the finals, draft picks and irreversible reputational damage to the club and key personnel, then I would be mightily p*ssed off and calling for their head! Not to mention the whole board for appointing the moron in the first place. But, fortunately I'm not an Essendon supporter.

 

[HawkXNtric]

And just on the topic of inexperienced coaches. A guy I know has been involved in the AFL coaching caper for a while and spent some time talking with both Nathan Buckley and Michael Voss after they finished their playing careers. Interestingly, Voss said he was keen to jump straight into the senior coaching gig, while Buckley acknowledged that he wasn't experienced enough and needed to spend some time in supporting roles before he would take on a senior coaching role. Not trying to make any point in particular, but I was interested at the time to hear about their different points of view on the subject, as I perceived them to be very similar players and therefore assumed that they would both be sufficiently confident (over-confident?) in their own abilities to coach at the highest level without any coaching experience. Interesting therefore to hear Voss' recent views on this topic and admit that it wasn't the ideal preparation.

 

[Argy]

I don't know many Essendon supporters personally as I generally try to keep better company than that.

I know a couple and both are mortally embarrassed about the whole thing and just wish it would go away. Neither of them will talk about it at all. They just clam up and change the subject.

 

[JoeHawk]

This is what you get for being a troll

Hey, this Jade person is funny. Calling us a bunch of sooks in his big sooky rant. Reading it made me happy.
And while he mentions sooks, after the game when the sniper belted sewel and received weeks for his efforts, I responded to their whinge thread with "....that's all" and was banned for months. And the sooks are????
Anyway, gotta say that 2013 gave me great joy with the hawks winning the grand prize and secondly essendon's turmoil.....couldn't happen to nicer bunch

 

[Argy]

I know Clarko got to know Yabby reasonably well toward the end. Maybe this is Clarko's way of giving the scum a karma bath on behalf of Yabby for Sheedy's drug sniffing remarks when he was coach. Oh, the ironing.

 

[cs61]

Yeah because so many other people are speaking up about it.....

Spot on. It's not so much the message, but who it is delivering it.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

You are one of the most delusional, head in the sand, "there's a conspiracy against us" Essendon supporters on BigFooty and there are a hell of a lot to choose from. That's not just me talking either, there's an extremely large collective of BigFooty posters, including the few realistic dons supporters, that also think this.

Hi Jab.

 

[fabulon31]

I find arguments trying to claim all Essendon fans have their heads in the sands just because you don't like a particular post weak and baseless.

So Clarkson's comments about coaches needing to be accredited are inappropriate???

Sounds like Little is admitting that Hird would have cheated no matter what education and mentoring he had.

I also found it bizarre that he referred to the Harvard Business School course. Does he have a problem with people becoming educated?

What is James doing with his free time?

 

[jmac70]

No, 100% of the time red lights do not stop cars, it's a light bulb. People stop cars because they are educated and qualified to operate them. Maybe not every single person respects the rules but it's a better system than you don't need a license. Do you think the requirement of a driving license increases or deceases the problems on the road?


All he is really saying is we should better educate people before giving them a position of responsibility. It's hardly groundbreaking and happens in pretty much every industry in the world.

I believe Clarkson is just being polite. He knows, as do most sane people, that Hird knew what he was doing was at the very least on the boundary of the rules. The idea of an accreditation course is really just a way of giving Hird the benefit of the doubt. It should not be necessary to provide education on such a basic premise that administering thousands of unnecessary injections to healthy young men is wrong.

 

[Rioli magic]

I believe Clarkson is just being polite. He knows, as do most sane people, that Hird knew what he was doing was at the very least on the boundary of the rules. The idea of an accreditation course is really just a way of giving Hird the benefit of the doubt. It should not be necessary to provide education on such a basic premise that administering thousands of unnecessary injections to healthy young men is wrong.

It's not all about Hird though. He wasn't asked to present his thoughts on the Essendon saga.

It's merely an idea to improve the game, as a whole, going forward. He's just given Essendon and Hird a clip on the way through because he'd been misrepresented on that matter. Clearly the current system is not working, but it's also ridiculous to dismiss any idea that wouldn't have stopped Hird as not worth bothering with.

Forget about Hird and Essendon for a minute, I think we all acknowledge they are nuts. This isn't just about them.

He's also talking about Brisbane and Voss (who happens to agree with him). That place is a rabble at the moment, and in no small part based around that appointment and the decision making surrounding it. That wouldn't have happened under Clarkson's proposal, they may still be a rabble, but the likelihood of those balls-ups would have been much lower.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

"Make the lie big, make it simple, keep saying it, and eventually they will believe it." Adolf Hitler James Hird

Like, "I take full responsibility"?

Essendon supporters in general aren't bright, the last 12 months has proven that. How can you sit and watch your club be destroyed from the inside? There's a few who can smell bullshit, but they keep their lips shut and don't dare question their illustrious leader publically.

Hird didn't really have to go to great lengths in order to get Essendon fans to buy any particular story though, as they're mostly too blinded or dumb to question him or what took place at the club, because that's what fans do. Worship their heroes and turn a blind eye.
A fair slab of them still trot out the "He's James Hird, a former captain, AA, brownlow medalist" line, just like he would have hoped they would. Not too many question him and his association with Charters, the "financials for the AOD project", or the need for Corcoran to employ his "UN skills" to help bypass the Doctor who was against the injection regime.

No, they'll probably never get it.

 

[blackshadow]

Like, "I take full responsibility"?

Essendon supporters in general aren't bright, the last 12 months has proven that. There's a few who can smell bullshit, but they keep their lips shut and don't dare question their illustrious leader publically.

Hird didn't really have to go to great lengths in order to get Essendon fans to buy any particular story though, as they're mostly too blinded or dumb to question him or what took place at the club, because that's what fans do. Worship their heroes and turn a blind eye.

A fair slab of them still trot out the "He's James Hird, a former captain, AA, brownlow medalist" line, just like he would have hoped they would. Not too many question him and his association with Charters, the "financials for the AOD project", or the need for Corcoran to employ his "UN skills" to help bypass the Doctor who was against the injection regime.

No, they'll probably never get it.

Don't forget the Anzac Day medals....

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk

 

[Bosk]

Like, "I take full responsibility"?

Essendon supporters in general aren't bright, the last 12 months has proven that. There's a few who can smell bullshit, but they keep their lips shut and don't dare question their illustrious leader publically.

Hird didn't really have to go to great lengths in order to get Essendon fans to buy any particular story though, as they're mostly too blinded or dumb to question him or what took place at the club, because that's what fans do. Worship their heroes and turn a blind eye.
A fair slab of them still trot out the "He's James Hird, a former captain, AA, brownlow medalist" line, just like he would have hoped they would. Not too many question him and his association with Charters, the "financials for the AOD project", or the need for Corcoran to employ his "UN skills" to help bypass the Doctor who was against the injection regime.

No, they'll probably never get it.

Its the power of denial at work.

Its quite sad because in the end I think many of them will say, do, or think anything rather than face the realization the club's favorite son led it down the path to disgrace. To admit that to themselves means that must also own up to their own complicity, knowing they would've have handed over the keys to the kingdom to James Hird just as readily as those on Essendon's board did.
They were duped and deceived, but its far easier to pretend no crime ever took place than to face the harsh reality that someone they trusted so blindly betrayed them.

The whole Essenjection saga would actually make a pretty entertaining mini-series. Written in the style of a traditional Greek tragedy perhaps, Baz Luhrmann to direct? (just no putrid hip-hop theme please!)

 

[Ram-Man]

I can't believe a man such as Paul Little - who has built up Toll from a small company of 18 trucks and is worth around 900 million dollars - would be such a lightweight when it comes to heading up a football club. To be backing Hird to the long term detriment of the football club just doesn't make business sense, it is ludicrous. Is he related to Hird ? Matt Little is his cousin - is there some family alignment ?

The only thing you could be sure of after Clarkson highlights the fact that Hird has brought the game into disrepute, is not accredited, and that not all coaches are feeling sympathetic towards his cause - is some pathetic response from Little "we're making progress, comments from Hawthorn are unhelpful ... blah blah blah"

Clarkson has brought to the surface that some AFL coaches don't have accreditation - which I didn't know - in the World Game you have to complete your badges to get any where near coaching at a reasonable level and I just assumed that was the case with AFL footy. Accreditation not only educates but shows that the individual is keen to learn more about the game and is prepared to do the hard yards and follow the rules. It also provides industry regulation.

 

[Lord_Espos]

I don't know many Essendon supporters personally as I generally try to keep better company than that. However, there are 2 blokes that I catch up with occasionally who are Essendon supporters and I used to think were reasonably rational and intelligent. So I couldn't wait to see them and ask their honest opinion on this topic and see what they thought. I thought that I might hear a reasonably balanced response from them.

The result? Absolute denial that anything wrong has taken place at their club, the AFL has made a scapegoat out of them and penalised them with no basis whatsoever. And...even "if" the club did do something wrong, then every other club must have been doing it as well. Furthermore, James Hird is the messiah and they can't wait for him to come back next year and prove the doubters wrong. I kid you not. This is seriously what they think. I have been lost for words on very few occasions in my life, but this was one of them.

Denial? Delusional? Drug-affected? I don't know, but I hope that if the situation was reversed and it was the coach of my club that had single-handedly cost the club millions of dollars, let alone a place in the finals, draft picks and irreversible reputational damage to the club and key personnel, then I would be mightily p*ssed off and calling for their head! Not to mention the whole board for appointing the moron in the first place. But, fortunately I'm not an Essendon supporter.

I have a confesion to make.

I have 5 or 6 very close friends who are Essendon supporters. Serious Essendon supporters.

And I've even been known to attend matches with them at the MCG in the members area that don't involve Hawthorn at all, just Essendon games.

Tis true.

Most of these guys are of the view that Essendon did wrong and they are super gutted with being caught. They've been super depressed about the whole scenario (not Big Footy people by the way).

Personally I think the difference between Hawks supporters and Essendon supporters is we've never had a messiah type figure who played for the Hawks. Hird used to be a goody too shoes back when he played as Bombers supporters look back on that fondly.

Wheras the Hawks had rought nuts like Dermie, Dippa and Lethal, who were all a bit rough around the edges and there were often lots of superstars in our teams to spread the hero load.

Not 100% sure but maybe that is why Essendon supporters are so much in denial, as they keep dreaming back to Hirds glory days when he was a player and he could do no wrong.... and they can't transmit this image to one depicted in the media and in all these ASADA reports. Not believing that these two entities could in fact be the same person.

 

[MrFujiMoto]

The Bummers have a thread all about how much they hate us. I wonder if Hirdy has a BigFooty account and started that thread . They are a pretty funny and pathetic group over at Bummer land. The club and supporters all deserve each other.

I hope we pump them into oblivion, like usual, in Round 2

 

[blackshadow]

I can't believe a man such as Paul Little - who has built up Toll from a small company of 18 trucks and is worth around 900 million dollars - would be such a lightweight when it comes to heading up a football club. To be backing Hird to the long term detriment of the football club just doesn't make business sense, it is ludicrous. Is he related to Hird ? Matt Little is his cousin - is there some family alignment ?

The only thing you could be sure of after Clarkson highlights the fact that Hird has brought the game into disrepute, is not accredited, and that not all coaches are feeling sympathetic towards his cause - is some pathetic response from Little "we're making progress, comments from Hawthorn are unhelpful ... blah blah blah"

Clarkson has brought to the surface that some AFL coaches don't have accreditation - which I didn't know - in the World Game you have to complete your badges to get any where near coaching at a reasonable level and I just assumed that was the case with AFL footy. Accreditation not only educates but shows that the individual is keen to learn more about the game and is prepared to do the hard yards and follow the rules. It also provides industry regulation.

Short answer Little is a massive Hird fanboi, wasn't it Little that funded Hird's legal and PR bills? (funding pulled once the other presidents told him where *Essendon really stood in the AFL).

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk

 

[jmac70]

It's not all about Hird though. He wasn't asked to present his thoughts on the Essendon saga.

It's merely an idea to improve the game, as a whole, going forward. He's just given Essendon and Hird a clip on the way through because he'd been misrepresented on that matter. Clearly the current system is not working, but it's also ridiculous to dismiss any idea that wouldn't have stopped Hird as not worth bothering with.

Forget about Hird and Essendon for a minute, I think we all acknowledge they are nuts. This isn't just about them.

He's also talking about Brisbane and Voss (who happens to agree with him). That place is a rabble at the moment, and in no small part based around that appointment and the decision making surrounding it. That wouldn't have happened under Clarkson's proposal, they may still be a rabble, but the likelihood of those balls-ups would have been much lower.

You make some very good points. A coaching accreditation that provides education and experience may result in reduced instances of balls-ups however this will always be threatened by club expectations. Every club, even Melbourne, judge the success of their coach on team performance. The pressure to find ways to fast track player development is enormous. With Clarkson's proposal we may well have coaches that are better prepared, which can only be a good thing, but they will still be at the mercy of unrealstic boards and success starved fans. Watters and Neeld both did their time as assistances and most so called experts lauded their appointments. Unfortunately for them they took on basket case clubs with boards that were not prepared to take a long term view.

 

[Matt Stevic]

And now our friendly moderator is copping it.

http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threa...-zero-tolerance-for-trolling.1029763/page-246

I thought the Carlton board was nuts.

 

[Whirling Dervish]

I have a confesion to make.

I have 5 or 6 very close friends who are Essendon supporters. Serious Essendon supporters.

Is that why you live in West Africa now?

Personally I think the difference between Hawks supporters and Essendon supporters is we've never had a messiah type figure who played for the Hawks.

Exactly, and we never needed to move Peter Hudson to centre half forward.