Tom Boyd

[andrewb]

I don't think he was incredibly influential JD, rather just solid. Competed hard in the ruck and really hard on the ground. Had a dozen good handballs which showed his willingness to be part of the play and not just one of those rucks who touches it twice a game.
He will be a gem eventually. Just like so many big men before him, he will take a little time. The double club, expectations, bashers due to $$ etc probable haven't helped his development.
I thought you'd be really positive about dogs. You guys were kind of brothers in arms for terrible results in the 80's.
Good to see one of you win a flag I'm guessing?

Saints, Bulldogs and Tigers are all in the same boat.

It's getting harder and harder to win them and every year makes the hurdle higher, especially now days that we are basically playing for a final six with two Sydney teams that will be perennially stumped up by the AFL for the good of the game('s ratings).

Go doggies, you'll have the support of every neutral.

 

[JeffDunne]

I don't think he was incredibly influential JD, rather just solid. Competed hard in the ruck and really hard on the ground. Had a dozen good handballs which showed his willingness to be part of the play and not just one of those rucks who touches it twice a game.
He will be a gem eventually. Just like so many big men before him, he will take a little time. The double club, expectations, bashers due to $$ etc probable haven't helped his development.

Probably a fair assessment. Not convinced on the long term yet but I don't doubt his obvious talent.

I thought you'd be really positive about dogs. You guys were kind of brothers in arms for terrible results in the 80's.
Good to see one of you win a flag I'm guessing?

Why would you think that?

Doggies fans are pretty hostile towards Saints fans. Most Saints fans were pretty indifferent towards the Dogs until events of the past decade. They seem to feel that running down the Saints at any opportunity makes their miserable history better.

They're not the most gracious victors and pretty sore losers.

 

[YEMOC NAYR]

The million dollar ruck

 

[BK Eaglesfan]

I feel like they need another genuine small forward (not just a resting midfielder) to balance things out a bit. Hard to see Cloke, Redpath, Crameri, Stringer and Dickson all playing together, even if people insist Stringer isn't a key forward, Cloke plays up the ground (as he should) and Dickson is on the smaller side.

I think developing Boyd's ruckwork further is the way to go. The physical requirements and development needed will assist him if he ever plays forward, too.

I agree, hence my interest. That list seems to be all key - mid sized and doesn't appear to work together. Yet they're bringing Cloke in, knowing Crameri is also returning. Definitely appears to be a plan for one or more to perhaps not be a permanent part of the forward line in 2017.

 

[Canada]

Probably a fair assessment. Not convinced on the long term yet but I don't doubt his obvious talent.


Why would you think that?

Doggies fans are pretty hostile towards Saints fans. Most Saints fans were pretty indifferent towards the Dogs until events of the past decade. They seem to feel that running down the Saints at any opportunity makes their miserable history better.

They're not the most gracious victors and pretty sore losers.

All clubs have supporters who are gracious victors and non gracious victors. Also many who are sore losers and many who are happy losers. I don't think any are better or worse than others.
Jump on board for the week JD.
Woof Woof.

 

[Damon_3388]

I agree, hence my interest. That list seems to be all key - mid sized and doesn't appear to work together. Yet they're bringing Cloke in, knowing Crameri is also returning. Definitely appears to be a plan for one or more to perhaps not be a permanent part of the forward line in 2017.

I suppose they're also working under the assumption that Redpath might not be available for the majority 2017 as well.

HF: ??? - Cloke - Smith
FF: Dickson - Crameri - Stringer

Could they convince Mitch Honeychurch to stay and give him more opportunity as that small forward? Could someone else change roles a la Clay Smith and fill the void (maybe Caleb Daniel)? Or will it just be a rotation of midfielders, giving the marking players more space to work in?

 

[BK Eaglesfan]

I suppose they're also working under the assumption that Redpath might not be available for the majority 2017 as well.

HF: ??? - Cloke - Smith
FF: Dickson - Crameri - Stringer

Could they convince Mitch Honeychurch to stay and give him more opportunity as that small forward? Could someone else change roles a la Clay Smith and fill the void (maybe Caleb Daniel)? Or will it just be a rotation of midfielders, giving the marking players more space to work in?

Fair point on Redpath. So even with him out, your forward set up looks sound, but I wouldn't be adding Boyd to those 5. In fact ignoring Dickson and Smith for a minute I think all of Boyd, Cloke and Stringer in the front half seems unbalanced on it's own. So, that leaves him where? Ruck?

 

[nobbyiscool]

You mean your selective stats? What about the stats that say that Mumford had over twice as many hitouts as Boyd and had more marks and tackles?

You seem to be willfully ignoring them too.

Can you not ****ing read?

Or are you just trolling now?

Lets revisit my post.

After free kicks, hit outs are the most useless stat in the game. I'd be surprised if the Bulldogs have won any hitout H2Hs this season, and now they're in the Grand Final.

Dogs won the clearances 53-38.

Boyd had 14 touches to Mumfords 10.

Boyd had 5 clearances to Mumfords 4. (Boyd had 2 centre clearances to Mumfords 1.)

Boyd had 9 contested possessions compared to Mumfords 6.

Boyd had 4 I50s compared to Mumfords 1.

Boyd beat Mumford in every stat that matters for a ruckman last night (Mumford won the tackles, I guess you could argue that's important for a ruckman.) I'm only disappointed that AFL.com's stats don't include score involvements, cos I'm certain Boyd would've won that too.

To summarise, cos apparently that's too many words for you to comprehend, hit outs are a ****ing useless stat, as demonstrated by the fact that they were smashed in clearances despite the hit out advantage.

Boyd won every one of the most important stats for ruckmen, sans possibly tackles (depending on how much people rate tackling in ruckmen.)

Now **** off, you don't know what you're talking about.

At the end of the day, everyone who is following the thread now knows you as the guy that thinks supercoach points are the best measure of how well someone plays.

 

[Superstar swan]

i like the bulldogs but this guy doesnt look up to the grade, incredibly slow and even slower decision making...poor disposal at times

 

[Superstar swan]

He probably is a very good footballer. Strong hands, good kick , big etc...however he cannot show it at afl level imo. the game appears to move simply too fast for him at times. hes still very young so he has plenty of time to develop and improve.

 

[BoydOHboyd]

i like the bulldogs but this guy doesnt look up to the grade, incredibly slow and even slower decision making...poor disposal at times

As a person who supports the Swans and has the pleasure of watching Tippet I would think you'd be more understanding.

 

[TiAn_]

A couple of really sad operators in here. Seeing the Dogs win a prelim has clearly been triggering.

 

[Superstar swan]

As a person who supports the Swans and has the pleasure of watching Tippet I would think you'd be more understanding.

tippett has a lot more runs on the board and was nearly the premier ruck in the game in the first half of the year.

Honestly not trying to troll, i love watching alot of the bulldogs players, its just to me (means nothing obviously) he struggles to adapt to the speed of the game, everything seems to take that split second longer

 

[teknodeejay]

I was a Boyd hater and I have to admit I was wrong he's coming good and still so young. #iwaswrong

 

[BK Eaglesfan]

tippett has a lot more runs on the board and was nearly the premier ruck in the game in the first half of the year.

Honestly not trying to troll, i love watching alot of the bulldogs players, its just to me (means nothing obviously) he struggles to adapt to the speed of the game, everything seems to take that split second longer

Must admit I agree watching him. He appears to have the physical tools, but sometimes seems to lack the speed of mind in the heat of things. Even my far better half (who follows the Bulldogs but is no footy expert - just calls what she sees) has commented watching him that sometimes he just appears lost or like he doesn't know what to do next.

Be fascinated to see if that side of his game improves with experience becuase physically the guy is a weapon.

 

[Superstar swan]

Must admit I agree watching him. He appears to have the physical tools, but sometimes seems to lack the speed of mind in the heat of things. Even my far better half (who follows the Bulldogs but is no footy expert - just calls what she sees) has commented watching him that sometimes he just appears lost or like he doesn't know what to do next.

i think at state level he would be devestating, afl level is completely different, if the swans bring the heat, he could be in for a hard time

 

[Farm Boy]

He probably is a very good footballer. Strong hands, good kick , big etc...however he cannot show it at afl level imo. the game appears to move simply too fast for him at times. hes still very young so he has plenty of time to develop and improve.

Has looked slower during the finals (as the tempo has lifted). I also noticed that. It has stood out. On what I have seen recently, it will be hard to squeeze Boyd into that line up next year. He isn't up the level of Crameri - or even Cloke. So I don't know what happens with him.

 

[Superstar swan]

Has looked slower during the finals (as the tempo has lifted). I also noticed that. It has stood out. On what I have seen recently, it will be hard to squeeze Boyd into that line up next year. He isn't up the level of Crameri - or even Cloke. So I don't know what happens with him.

ultimately they will persevere due to his salary

 

[stefoid]

Ive been critical of his marking - hes been getting to spots, competing in the air and almost like clockwork getting both hands to the ball in situations where just about any AFL player would hold onto the mark, and hes been dropping them - three or four times a game! In fact he hasnt even been holding his hands in the correct position to mark the ball, more like palming it in front of himself. Take those marks and hes likely to kick a couple of goals a game because hes a great kick for goal, but he just isnt taking them.

So the recent article saying he needs a shoulder reco - Im hoping that he comes back next year with a good shoulder and is able to take those marks

Does a bung shoulder stop you from being able to apply opposing pressure with out stretched hands? Cant help I suppose.

But everything else - his aerobic capacity, his positioning and leap, his kicking and ground ball work and hands in close - its all great.

Now if you want to know who Im really worried about its Stringer...

 

[Superstar swan]

Ive been critical of his marking - hes been getting to spots, competing in the air and almost like clockwork getting both hands to the ball in situations where just about any AFL player would hold onto the mark, and hes been dropping them - three or four times a game! In fact he hasnt even been holding his hands in the correct position to mark the ball, more like palming it in front of himself. Take those marks and hes likely to kick a couple of goals a game because hes a great kick for goal, but he just isnt taking them.

So the recent article saying he needs a shoulder reco - Im hoping that he comes back next year with a good shoulder and is able to take those marks

Does a bung shoulder stop you from being able to apply opposing pressure with out stretched hands? Cant help I suppose.

But everything else - his aerobic capacity, his positioning and leap, his kicking and ground ball work and hands in close - its all great.

Now if you want to know who Im really worried about its Stringer...

whats the story with stringer, seems to have lost his flair. Im worried about him this week however, can see him turning it on

 

[Sedat!]

Could someone point me to one highlight from yesterday's game?

If he was as influential as some here claim, surely there'd be something that might convince a skeptic like me?

He blunted a major opposition advantage, and did so virtually on his own for 3/4 of the game. Mumford was a complete non-factor last night, which not many people were predicting before the first bounce.

He is a work on progress and is a long way from the finished article, but his workrate in the 3 finals has been second to none.

 

[Canada]

ultimately they will persevere due to his salary

You could be talking about Tippett here.

 

[stefoid]

whats the story with stringer, seems to have lost his flair. Im worried about him this week however, can see him turning it on

Not worried about his flair, worried about his attitude, work ethic, etc... I guess its a similar story with some players with huge amounts of natural talent. Takes a few years to learn to harness it.

 

[nobbyiscool]

Ive been critical of his marking - hes been getting to spots, competing in the air and almost like clockwork getting both hands to the ball in situations where just about any AFL player would hold onto the mark, and hes been dropping them - three or four times a game! In fact he hasnt even been holding his hands in the correct position to mark the ball, more like palming it in front of himself. Take those marks and hes likely to kick a couple of goals a game because hes a great kick for goal, but he just isnt taking them.

So the recent article saying he needs a shoulder reco - Im hoping that he comes back next year with a good shoulder and is able to take those marks

Does a bung shoulder stop you from being able to apply opposing pressure with out stretched hands? Cant help I suppose.

But everything else - his aerobic capacity, his positioning and leap, his kicking and ground ball work and hands in close - its all great.

Now if you want to know who Im really worried about its Stringer...

That might be one of the better posts I've seen in this thread from those questioning Boyd.

As I've made clear in this thread, I think people are MUCH too harsh on a 3rd year player, and people are MUCH too focused on his pay packet and not his development.

But his marking is the question mark I keep coming back to as well, and it's the one facet of his game that I believe gives "haters" a genuine reason to be critical. (To be clear, I'm not putting you in that boat.)

As I said I earlier today, I don't reckon anyone in the league gets hit in the face/head in marking contests as much as Boyd does, and if he can ever hold onto a mark with his face it'll be the best thing I've ever seen.

I'm not a doctor or a physio, but I doubt his shoulder has a lot to do with his marking, cos it was a problem last year as well. I think he just hasn't quite learned how to mitigate his concrete hands in a match situation yet. I still think it'll come though.

On Stringer... it belongs in another thread, so I'll keep it short. I'm not "really worried" about it, but he's had a rubbish year, and going forward I don't think he's the type of player we thought he'd be. He's more likely to be Cyril Rioli than Jesse Hogan or Nick Riewoldt.

 

[The 747]

Has looked slower during the finals (as the tempo has lifted). I also noticed that. It has stood out. On what I have seen recently, it will be hard to squeeze Boyd into that line up next year. He isn't up the level of Crameri - or even Cloke. So I don't know what happens with him.

He plays ruck/forward next year simple.