Recruiting AFL Trade & Free Agency IX

[Lore]

Spoiler: 2021 Key Dates

AFL TRADE, DRAFT AND FREE AGENCY DATES 2021

Grand Final
Saturday September 25

Draft Combine – Vic Country
Friday October 1

Restricted and Unrestricted Free Agency Window
Friday October 1 – Friday October 8

Delisted Free Agency Window 1
Wednesday October 3 - Monday October 15

Trade Period (picks and players)
Monday October 4 (9am) – Wednesday October 13 (7.30pm)

Draft Combines (States and Regions)
VM: Saturday October 9 (tbc)
Qld: Sunday October 10
Tas: Monday October 11
SA: Saturday October 16
WA: Sunday October 17
NSW&ACT: tbc
NT: will join SA or Qld

Trade Period (picks only)
Monday October 18 – Monday November 15

List Lodgement 1
Friday October 29

Delisted Free Agency Window 1
Wednesday November 3 (9am) – Tuesday November 9 (5pm)

List Lodgement 2 (Final date for primary list delistings)
Wednesday November 10 (2pm)

Delisted Free Agency Window 2
Thursday November 11 (9am) – Monday November 15 (5pm)

Draft Nominations Due
Wednesday November 17 (3pm)

Pre-Season Commences (First to fourth year players)
Monday November 22

National Draft
Round 1: Wednesday November 24 (7pm)
Round 2–end: Thursday November 25 (7pm)

Rookie Upgrade Period
Thursday November 25 (10pm) - Thursday November 25 (11pm)

Delisted Free Agency Window 3
Thursday November 25 (10pm) - Thursday November 25 (11pm)

Pre-Selected Rookie Nominations Due (Includes Academy, Father/Son)
Friday November 26 (12pm) - Friday November 26 (12.30pm)

Preseason Draft
Friday November 26 (3pm)

Pre-Selected Rookie Notification
Friday November 26 (3.15pm)

Rookie Draft
Friday November 26 (3.20pm)

Final List Lodgement
Monday November 29 (4pm)

Pre-Season Commences (All other players)
Monday December 6

Pre-Season Supplemental Selection Period (SSP)
December - March (tbc)

Current Contract Status
2021 Draft Watch
Father/Son and NGA
Adrian Dodoro

 

[FlyingV]

I found where Mitch Hibberd is

Should get a few more touches at least

 

[GUMBLETRON]

You mean that draft that had guys like Brayshaw, Cerra and Naughton?

Maybe he'd get inside the first round, he's definitely not ahead of any of those guys.

He presumably means Hill looked a top 3 pick a year out - which is very questionable given the strength of the talls and what the likes of Walsh and Rankine were doing as under-agers.

That said, he was not unknown: https://www.afl.com.au/news/142158/u18-spectacular-hill-set-to-turn-heads

 

[cAsEy_18]

Something about the grounds for which Bob wants to be traded isn't sitting well with me. His home state and his girlfriend's homestate is WA. He's breaking a contract to get to us on compassionate grounds because family is in Melbourne and she's pregnant? So, why not WA?

His willingness to break his current contract and cousin Brad's example, who he wants to hang out with, and raising kids still away from his home state has me thinking this is Connor McKenna all over again - in for a good time, not for a long time.

Now put me in the boat of not caring whether or not this trade goes through.

But...

Surely the bolded part answers the question itself?

Because family is in Melbourne. Sometimes doesn't matter 'where you're from' or you're original home state. Sounds like that family side of things is more set up in Vic than in W.A.

But I agree with the premise - IF genuinely his main reason for wanting a trade is for family reasons...that is absolutely fine in my book. And I would hope GWS would make an effort to accommodate that, like I would hope any club would.
But be willing to go to any Vic club. Don't go around nominating.
I know it happens all the time, but it's a flaw in our system. GWS should be able to accept the best offer they get from any Vic club, and everyone be happy with that.

 

[Bjchan13]

I think it gets done purely because he's nominated us, we've ponied up our 2nd (apparently) and I just don't think Dodoro wouldn't get a trade like this done two years in a row (Dunkley 2020).

GWS have called Hill on his bluff. If it was truly about getting to Melbourne on compassionate grounds he would be willing to go to multiple clubs. Rightly or wrongly I think Dodoro has proven he is happy to target players and back out of the deal if the price isnt right. Most would consider what we payed for Shiel overs and Dodo was walking away from that deal same as Dunkley if it wasnt for Richardson stepping in. Targeting contracted players just isn't the greatest list management strategy unless the player is being pushed out of their original club. Uncontracted you see the players true value (Cerra, SPS)

 

[Dave]

Well we know who to sack then.

EVERYBODY!!!! The burn the joint down and salt the earth.

 

[ghostdog]

Now put me in the boat of not caring whether or not this trade goes through.

But...

Surely the bolded part answers the question itself?

Because family is in Melbourne. Sometimes doesn't matter 'where you're from' or you're original home state. Sounds like that family side of things is more set up in Vic than in W.A.

But I agree with the premise - IF genuinely his main reason for wanting a trade is for family reasons...that is absolutely fine in my book. And I would hope GWS would make an effort to accommodate that, like I would hope any club would.
But be willing to go to any Vic club. Don't go around nominating.
I know it happens all the time, but it's a flaw in our system. GWS should be able to accept the best offer they get from any Vic club, and everyone be happy with that.

Sorry, it's probably the way I expressed it. My understanding is that'it's her family in WA and only some of his in Melbourne, but their homestate (where Mum and Dad are?) is WA.

The missing context is why I'm unsure.

 

[BrunoV]

Have we seen any evidence from within the AFL industry that players and managers refuse to deal with EFC? Which is what Bruno was implying.

I wasn't implying anything.

I was saying that there is a risk managers will not deal with Essendon if this continues.

He would not have done the Shiel trade. Richardson overrode him and I don't believe there is any counter to that version of events. Remember that would have been not dealing despite talking Shiel out of going to Carlton. My view is that's just not how you do business. I can't think of any good clubs in recent time who have done business in that way.

Having courted Dunkley he was never prepared to put up what it was always going to cost to do that deal. Dunkley was an out and out star in 2019 before a positional change interrupted his momentum in 2020 along with all of the other upheaval that year. He had 2 years left on a deal at 23 years of age and was probably the single most perfect fit for our side. We couldn't even leverage the idea that we could deal at a much cheaper rate in 12 months time as sometimes happens with a year to go. You need to be realistic about what the cost of getting that deal done would be.

I'll believe that Hill contacted us first when I see the digital records of everyone involved. We have his cousin in our VFLW team and Hill is very much a Dodoro-style player. Word gets around that Hill's partner is pregnant and there you have your alibi. Dodoro has a significant focus on these family and club connections which is something he is open about learning from Sheedy.

He tries to manoeuvre for contracted players as though they are uncontracted.

If the Hill deal falls through and I am a player manager I'm telling my contracted client not to bother with Essendon. It's too much hassle and careers are too short to dick around with potentially upsetting teammates and coaches and missing opportunities when there are 9 other clubs to go to (if you want to play in Victoria/Melbourne) and there are more reasons than not to go to 7 of those other teams (North and St Kilda having their issues although it certainly hasn't stopped St Kilda attracting talent).

 

[ghostdog]

Well we know who to sack then.

Who knows? You and Hank?



...you know it's just gonna keep on giving

 

[Schnitzengruben]

GWS have called Hill on his bluff. If it was truly about getting to Melbourne on compassionate grounds he would be willing to go to multiple clubs. Rightly or wrongly I think Dodoro has proven he is happy to target players and back out of the deal if the price isnt right. Most would consider what we payed for Shiel overs and Dodo was walking away from that deal same as Dunkley if it wasnt for Richardson stepping in. Targeting contracted players just isn't the greatest list management strategy unless the player is being pushed out of their original club. Uncontracted you see the players true value (Cerra, SPS)

I believe him when he says he wants to get to Melbourne on compassionate grounds. Didn't Tim Kelly want to get to WA on compassionate grounds, but only to West Coast? No different here.

If the trade fails to go through, then it will have big ramifications for our trading for contracted players in the future. They'll know that we aren't serious about getting them across. Dunkley? Okay well it happens every now and then. Hill the following year? Forget about it. Managers won't have a bar of it and it would hurt the club/Dodoro's reputation. That's why Dodoro upped the offer to a 2nd and pick swaps (apparently). I strongly believe the deal will get done.

edit: Basically what BrunoV just said

 

[owen87]

I wasn't implying anything.

I was saying that there is a risk managers will not deal with Essendon if this continues.

He would not have done the Shiel trade. Richardson overrode him and I don't believe there is any counter to that version of events. Remember that would have been not dealing despite talking Shiel out of going to Carlton. My view is that's just not how you do business. I can't think of any good clubs in recent time who have done business in that way.

Having courted Dunkley he was never prepared to put up what it was always going to cost to do that deal. Dunkley was an out and out star in 2019 before a positional change interrupted his momentum in 2020 along with all of the other upheaval that year. He had 2 years left on a deal at 23 years of age and was probably the single most perfect fit for our side. We couldn't even leverage the idea that we could deal at a much cheaper rate in 12 months time as sometimes happens with a year to go. You need to be realistic about what the cost of getting that deal done would be.

I'll believe that Hill contacted us first when I see the digital records of everyone involved. We have his cousin in our VFLW team and Hill is very much a Dodoro-style player. Word gets around that Hill's partner is pregnant and there you have your alibi. Dodoro has a significant focus on these family and club connections which is something he is open about learning from Sheedy.

He tries to manoeuvre for contracted players as though they are uncontracted.

If the Hill deal falls through and I am a player manager I'm telling my contracted client not to bother with Essendon. It's too much hassle and careers are too short to dick around with potentially upsetting teammates and coaches and missing opportunities when there are 9 other clubs to go to (if you want to play in Victoria/Melbourne) and there are more reasons than not to go to 7 of those other teams (North and St Kilda having their issues although it certainly hasn't stopped St Kilda attracting talent).

There's a lot of leaps of faith being presented as fact in this post.

 

[Bjchan13]

I believe him when he says he wants to get to Melbourne on compassionate grounds. Didn't Tim Kelly want to get to WA on compassionate grounds, but only to West Coast? No different here.

If the trade fails to go through, then it will have big ramifications for our trading for contracted players in the future. They'll know that we aren't serious about getting them across. Dunkley? Okay well it happens every now and then. Hill the following year? Forget about it. Managers won't have a bar of it and it would hurt the club/Dodoro's reputation.

TK was going to a 2 team town though and had issues with people at 1 of them. I agree it could have an affect on trading for contracted players but would you rather overpay all the time? Maybe Dodo should target free agents or uncontracted players instead

 

[eth-dog]

Having courted Dunkley he was never prepared to put up what it was always going to cost to do that deal. Dunkley was an out and out star in 2019 before a positional change interrupted his momentum in 2020 along with all of the other upheaval that year. He had 2 years left on a deal at 23 years of age and was probably the single most perfect fit for our side. We couldn't even leverage the idea that we could deal at a much cheaper rate in 12 months time as sometimes happens with a year to go. You need to be realistic about what the cost of getting that deal done would be.

This paragraph alone has a lot of grasping at straws.

He had half an elite year. He wasn't an out and out star, far from it. You just loved the idea of him coming over (so did I) but he wasn't worth the cost. The Dogs asked for overs, which is their prerogative.

 

[BrunoV]

I believe him when he says he wants to get to Melbourne on compassionate grounds. Didn't Tim Kelly want to get to WA on compassionate grounds, but only to West Coast? No different here.

If the trade fails to go through, then it will have big ramifications for our trading for contracted players in the future. They'll know that we aren't serious about getting them across. Dunkley? Okay well it happens every now and then. Hill the following year? Forget about it. Managers won't have a bar of it and it would hurt the club/Dodoro's reputation. That's why Dodoro upped the offer to a 2nd and pick swaps (apparently). I strongly believe the deal will get done.

edit: Basically what BrunoV just said

I can only say this with the benefit of hindsight but West Coast paid a massive amount for Kelly and did it 2 days into the 2019 trade period.

We know Geelong Trumped the Cats to recruit Kelly in the first place and that West Coast had tried the year before. Geelong said they were not going to trade.

I think that's a nomination made knowing there is no real issue with the trade being completed.

 

[owen87]

I can only say this with the benefit of hindsight but West Coast paid a massive amount for Kelly and did it 2 days into the 2019 trade period.

We know Geelong Trumped the Cats to recruit Kelly in the first place.

That's probably a nomination made knowing the deal will be done.

You remember the failed trade a year prior right?

 

[BrunoV]

You remember the failed trade a year prior right?

Yes, already edited.

 

[BrunoV]

There's a lot of leaps of faith being presented as fact in this post.

Name them and we can work through why the only leap of faith is possibly overrating a 22 year old midfielder averaging 28 possessions in a year on the back of a prolific half year. We can then talk about all of the other times the industry and its fans take a measured approach to the assessment of young players who do similar things, such as when Dunkley made the AA 40.

 

[Schnitzengruben]

TK was going to a 2 team town though and had issues with people at 1 of them. I agree it could have an affect on trading for contracted players but would you rather overpay all the time? Maybe Dodo should target free agents or uncontracted players instead

Source for the Tim Kelly issues? Not disputing it, it's just the first I've heard of it. I was under the impression Fremantle were seen as a bit of a perpetual underperformer/basket case, and West Coast seen as the more attractive proposition. Even so, I highly doubt his supposed issues with people at Fremantle trumped his want to get back to WA.

As for overpaying all the time - have we? I've thought we usually get pretty good deals. The only deal we've "overpayed" for recently is Shiel. But you could argue that happens with every club at one point or another. Personally, I would happily give up a future 2nd for Bobby Hill. But that's just my opinion.

 

[Bjchan13]

I wasn't implying anything.

I was saying that there is a risk managers will not deal with Essendon if this continues.

He would not have done the Shiel trade. Richardson overrode him and I don't believe there is any counter to that version of events. Remember that would have been not dealing despite talking Shiel out of going to Carlton. My view is that's just not how you do business. I can't think of any good clubs in recent time who have done business in that way.

Having courted Dunkley he was never prepared to put up what it was always going to cost to do that deal. Dunkley was an out and out star in 2019 before a positional change interrupted his momentum in 2020 along with all of the other upheaval that year. He had 2 years left on a deal at 23 years of age and was probably the single most perfect fit for our side. We couldn't even leverage the idea that we could deal at a much cheaper rate in 12 months time as sometimes happens with a year to go. You need to be realistic about what the cost of getting that deal done would be.

I'll believe that Hill contacted us first when I see the digital records of everyone involved. We have his cousin in our VFLW team and Hill is very much a Dodoro-style player. Word gets around that Hill's partner is pregnant and there you have your alibi. Dodoro has a significant focus on these family and club connections which is something he is open about learning from Sheedy.

He tries to manoeuvre for contracted players as though they are uncontracted.

If the Hill deal falls through and I am a player manager I'm telling my contracted client not to bother with Essendon. It's too much hassle and careers are too short to dick around with potentially upsetting teammates and coaches and missing opportunities when there are 9 other clubs to go to (if you want to play in Victoria/Melbourne) and there are more reasons than not to go to 7 of those other teams (North and St Kilda having their issues although it certainly hasn't stopped St Kilda attracting talent).

McCartney moved the goalposts on the Shiel deal late once they'd got Scully and Lobb off the books. Salary cap issues were the original reason GwS were happy to let Shiel seek a trade. 1st and future 2nd was getting it done. Later it became 2 x 1sts with a 2nd going back. There was already bad blood from Stringer. McCartney used his trump card, Shiel was contracted.

 

[Kakkle]

Listening to the Melbourne list manager talk about Luke Dunstan

27

Luke Dunstan

Age

29

Ht

185cm

Wt

86kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

20.7

5star

K

10.1

4star

HB

10.6

5star

M

3.3

3star

T

4.8

5star

CL

4.4

5star

D

21.0

5star

K

13.0

5star

HB

8.0

4star

M

3.0

3star

T

9.0

5star

CL

2.0

4star

D

18.2

5star

K

6.0

3star

HB

12.2

5star

M

2.4

3star

T

6.2

5star

CL

4.2

5star

and the value in bringing him to the club, makes me think they are recruiting for a completely different sport to what Essendon are recruiting for.

 

[Bjchan13]

Source for the Tim Kelly issues? Not disputing it, it's just the first I've heard of it. I was under the impression Fremantle were seen as a bit of a perpetual underperformer/basket case, and West Coast seen as the more attractive proposition. Even so, I highly doubt his supposed issues with people at Fremantle trumped his want to get back to WA.

As for overpaying all the time - have we? I've thought we usually get pretty good deals. The only deal we've "overpayed" for recently is Shiel. But you could argue that happens with every club at one point or another. Personally, I would happily give up a future 2nd for Bobby Hill. But that's just my opinion.

I asked would you rather overpay all the time as opposed to damaging our reputation trading for contracted players. You seemed concerned it would affect our ability to target contracted players if we didnt meet the asking price. Would you have preferred to pay what Dogs asked for Dunkley? Or are you happy we backed out of the deal. I dont think we should be going for too many contracted players in the first place as it gives the selling club too much upper hand to begin with.

Hill you're banking on potential. If it is a future 2nd i wont be horrified but it is overs at this stage.

TK was concerned about the culture at Freo compared to West Coast. WC had plenty of players with kids and seemed more family orientated, compared to Freo who were younger and had a few players that seemed to enjoy the party scene more. Sources are the west Australian, the age, channel 7. He didnt rule out Freo completely but in a 2 town team he doesn't have as many options as Hill, who has 10 teams in VIC as options.

 

[JayJ20]

I can only say this with the benefit of hindsight but West Coast paid a massive amount for Kelly and did it 2 days into the 2019 trade period.

We know Geelong Trumped the Cats to recruit Kelly in the first place and that West Coast had tried the year before. Geelong said they were not going to trade.

I think that's a nomination made knowing there is no real issue with the trade being completed.

But Dunkley's situation is exactly like Kelly's. Bulldogs also said they weren't going to trade.

 

[owen87]

Name them and we can work through why the only leap of faith is possibly overrating a 22 year old midfielder averaging 28 possessions in a year on the back of a prolific half year. We can then talk about all of the other times the industry and its fans take a measured approach to the assessment of young players who do similar things, such as when Dunkley made the AA 40.

Most sentences in your post involve a leap of faith, that you then decide is fact.

You have a position that you fit the evidence to support.

 

[BrunoV]

This paragraph alone has a lot of grasping at straws.

He had half an elite year. He wasn't an out and out star, far from it. You just loved the idea of him coming over (so did I) but he wasn't worth the cost. The Dogs asked for overs, which is their prerogative.

Dunkley made the AA 40 in 2019 so it was much more than just Essendon fans crying out for an brutish inside mid.

 

[BrunoV]

Most sentences in your post involve a leap of faith, that you then decide is fact.

You have a position that you fit the evidence to support.

Okay so you have nothing.

 

[owen87]

Okay so you have nothing.

Mate you literally wrote you wouldn't believe the Hill contacted us story without seeing the digital records.