List Mgmt. Trade & Free Agency talk Pt 8

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jthanos said:
If you want to emulate North Melb, get rid of all players that make you competitive and only win 12 games in the last 5yrs. Do you remember those years? I do, picks don't guarantee you success, development does and you need senior players to young players. Getting rid of Lynch is not a smart move.
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Lynch basically rarely plays for us , if we could get a 20ish pic we could use that to trade in a decent kid ready to go that’s off contract , eg josh fahey,,,,player availability from the crocs on our list has crucified us this year , don’t do what WC did and extend their contracts
 

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Bojangles17 said:
Lynch basically rarely plays for us , if we could get a 20ish pic we could use that to trade in a decent kid ready to go that’s off contract , eg josh fahey,,,,player availability from the crocs on our list has crucified us this year , don’t do what WC did and extend their contracts
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If you are shipping Lynch then you are not looking to contend. And if you are not looking to contend you pay his salary or a chunk of it and try to get a prime pick or good young player for him.

Not saying this is what we should do, but if you are unloading Lynch you whole hog it to get the best possible return. No ifs no buts, if Dees or Pies or Cats or whoever want Lynch(he is the best player of his type in the AFL when fit) we pay the final year of his contract in full but we want a top 10 pick or an equivalent player in return. How much do you really want to win a flag campaigners?
 
Meteoric Rise said:
If you are shipping Lynch then you are not looking to contend. And if you are not looking to contend you pay his salary or a chunk of it and try to get a prime pick or good young player for him.

Not saying this is what we should do, but if you are unloading Lynch you whole hog it to get the best possible return. No ifs no buts, if Dees or Pies or Cats or whoever want Lynch(he is the best player of his type in the AFL when fit) we pay the final year of his contract in full but we want a top 10 pick or an equivalent player in return. How much do you really want to win a flag campaigners?
Click to expand...
If we paid a chunk of salary you wouldn’t accept anything over 20
 
I wouldn’t get rid of lynch, we have no forward line without him lol …… we are in an unfortunate situation where we just have to hope he doesn’t get injured too often when he returns as we have no one to cover him
 

The Richmond recession: Its underlying causes, and the Tigers’ way out​

ByJake Niall​



The paths of Richmond and Sydney have diverged sharply since the Tigers conjured a round-three upset of the Swans that can be viewed in retrospect as the season’s most mystifying result.
But the Tigers of late March were a decidedly different unit to the team that conceded a staggering 77 forward entries to the Western Bulldogs and were so vertically challenged in defence that Nick Vlastuin, a superb veteran defender but just 187cm, was compelled to spend time on super-talented beanstalk Sam Darcy, conceding 21 centimetres.
Tigers midfielder [PLAYERCARD]Tim Taranto[/PLAYERCARD].

Tigers midfielder Tim Taranto.CREDIT:AFL PHOTOS
The Tigers had regained Noah Balta, but found they couldn’t man Aaron Naughton, Jamarra Ugle-Hagan and Darcy without Josh Gibcus and Tom Lynch. Balta had been deployed forward due to Tom Lynch’s long-term injury.
Yet, defending lanky forwards wasn’t the primary problem; it lay between the arcs, where the Bulldogs, led by Adam Treloar, Ed Richards and Marcus Bontempelli, more or less owned the footy and were subjected to scant pressure as Richmond’s diminished senior group wilted.

It was such a towelling that the question was posed of whether some senior players had thrown it in.
The Richmond recession has three or four underlying causes. In the immediate term, there’s the injury carnage that began in the round-one game against Carlton (when Gibcus went down) and worsened in the Sydney triumph that saw Lynch and Balta suffer hamstring tendon and knee injuries; it has not abated much since, although Balta and Dion Prestia returned for the Saturday night massacre.
Richmond coach [PLAYERCARD]Adem Yze[/PLAYERCARD].

Richmond coach Adem Yze.CREDIT:AFL PHOTOS
Monday’s medical meetings contained few glad tidings. No player of note is likely to return for this weekend’s game at the Gabba and those who are most missed – Lynch and midfielder Tim Taranto – are gone for several more weeks. Jacob Hopper, another important mid, is only an outside chance to resume in the Dreamtime game.
The large number of players used (37) to date and the small proportion who’ve played every game (just six, compared to Sydney’s 17 and Melbourne’s 16) are measures of Richmond’s player availability disaster.



But there are clearly two or three other issues that have beset the Tigers in their rapid descent since 2022, when they were unluckily pipped at the Gabba by the Lions and consigned to an early finals exit in a year when they believed – with justification – they could compete for the premiership.

https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl...-end-debate-on-20th-side-20240513-p5jd47.html
​

​

Before the injury pestilence, Richmond’s playing stocks were ravaged by retirements to the cornerstones of their triple-flag dynasty and, as a club that finished in the finals in all but three seasons since 2013 (2016, 2021, 2023) and four times made the preliminary or grand final, they have had scant access to the top end of the national draft.
The lack of draft capital is greater considering they – rightly – gave up pick No.6 in 2016 for Prestia, and have barely had their other top-10 pick from that 11-year stretch in Gibcus.

More contentious was the trading for Taranto and Hopper that took the Tigers out of the first rounds of the 2022 and 2023 drafts and was seen, even then, as a potential sequel to Hawthorn’s hubristic acquisitions of Jaeger O’Meara and Tom Mitchell.
Outgoing Richmond CEO Brendon Gale.

Outgoing Richmond CEO Brendon Gale.CREDIT:GETTY IMAGES
But the loss of Taranto, in particular, has been significant to the 2024 recession and if the Tigers over-reached by getting Hopper with his Giant teammate – and giving up what turned into a top-10 selection – the converse argument is that they will need a core of senior players around which to build over the coming years.
The alternative is to let senior players leave and redress the lack of draft capital. But this will make Adem Yze’s already-massive task harder, bearing in mind that Liam Baker might leave to join one of the Perth clubs, and that the Tigers should gain a decent pick for him if that transpires.
Even if you accept that the Tigers erred in giving up draft picks in both 2022 and 2023 for Taranto/Hopper, the state of their playing list is more a result of the natural cycles – the system’s innate gravity – than list management blunders.

Yes, the Swans and Geelong have levitated above the pack for longer, compared with Richmond and the cautionary examples of Hawthorn and West Coast. But the Swans did finish in the bottom four in 2019 and 2020, and in the latter post-season, they had a top five pick and a fellow called Errol Gulden arrive, alongside Braeden Campbell, via their academy, plus had Nick Blakey on the books from the academy from 2018.

The other factor that is noteworthy is the exit of Damien Hardwick and the imminent departure of chief executive Brendon Gale, on the heels of Peggy O’Neal’s presidency. As greats such as Trent Cotchin, Jack Riewoldt and Shane Edwards have finished, with Dusty Martin winding down and others either turning or past 30, the Richmond of 2025-26 will contain few of the statues of the glorious 2017-2020 era.
Yze’s wish to implement his game plan – one more reliant on stoppage clearance compared to the previous transition-heavy Hardwick style (which the Tigers felt needed to be rebalanced) – has been compromised by Taranto, Hopper and Prestia’s injuries and the lack of ready-replacements.


Play Video
https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/javascript:void(0);

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​



​



Richmond Tigers CEO Brendan Gale quit his post after 15 years before quickly being installed as Tasmania's inaugural boss.

Richmond’s regeneration, though, will need continuity of experienced players and off-field staff, who have corporate memories of 2013-2020 and can sustain a culture that has spawned success not only at Richmond, but influenced Collingwood and other clubs.
Gale has made clear that he will not be poaching renowned list boss Blair Hartley to Tassie, nor Tim Livingstone, the football performance chief. Hartley is contracted for 2025, in any case.
The Tigers have lost enough key people, and have gained sufficient fresh faces and new intellectual property. To strip back the playing ranks to near ground zero – and to further denude the football department of wise heads – would be a road to prolonged recession. Richmond people know too well what that looks like.
 
Tiger_Of_Old said:

The Richmond recession: Its underlying causes, and the Tigers’ way out​

ByJake Niall​



The paths of Richmond and Sydney have diverged sharply since the Tigers conjured a round-three upset of the Swans that can be viewed in retrospect as the season’s most mystifying result.
But the Tigers of late March were a decidedly different unit to the team that conceded a staggering 77 forward entries to the Western Bulldogs and were so vertically challenged in defence that Nick Vlastuin, a superb veteran defender but just 187cm, was compelled to spend time on super-talented beanstalk Sam Darcy, conceding 21 centimetres.
Tigers midfielder Tim Taranto.

Tigers midfielder Tim Taranto.CREDIT:AFL PHOTOS
The Tigers had regained Noah Balta, but found they couldn’t man Aaron Naughton, Jamarra Ugle-Hagan and Darcy without Josh Gibcus and Tom Lynch. Balta had been deployed forward due to Tom Lynch’s long-term injury.
Yet, defending lanky forwards wasn’t the primary problem; it lay between the arcs, where the Bulldogs, led by Adam Treloar, Ed Richards and Marcus Bontempelli, more or less owned the footy and were subjected to scant pressure as Richmond’s diminished senior group wilted.

It was such a towelling that the question was posed of whether some senior players had thrown it in.
The Richmond recession has three or four underlying causes. In the immediate term, there’s the injury carnage that began in the round-one game against Carlton (when Gibcus went down) and worsened in the Sydney triumph that saw Lynch and Balta suffer hamstring tendon and knee injuries; it has not abated much since, although Balta and Dion Prestia returned for the Saturday night massacre.
Richmond coach Adem Yze.

Richmond coach Adem Yze.CREDIT:AFL PHOTOS
Monday’s medical meetings contained few glad tidings. No player of note is likely to return for this weekend’s game at the Gabba and those who are most missed – Lynch and midfielder Tim Taranto – are gone for several more weeks. Jacob Hopper, another important mid, is only an outside chance to resume in the Dreamtime game.
The large number of players used (37) to date and the small proportion who’ve played every game (just six, compared to Sydney’s 17 and Melbourne’s 16) are measures of Richmond’s player availability disaster.



But there are clearly two or three other issues that have beset the Tigers in their rapid descent since 2022, when they were unluckily pipped at the Gabba by the Lions and consigned to an early finals exit in a year when they believed – with justification – they could compete for the premiership.

https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl...-end-debate-on-20th-side-20240513-p5jd47.html
​

​

Before the injury pestilence, Richmond’s playing stocks were ravaged by retirements to the cornerstones of their triple-flag dynasty and, as a club that finished in the finals in all but three seasons since 2013 (2016, 2021, 2023) and four times made the preliminary or grand final, they have had scant access to the top end of the national draft.
The lack of draft capital is greater considering they – rightly – gave up pick No.6 in 2016 for Prestia, and have barely had their other top-10 pick from that 11-year stretch in Gibcus.

More contentious was the trading for Taranto and Hopper that took the Tigers out of the first rounds of the 2022 and 2023 drafts and was seen, even then, as a potential sequel to Hawthorn’s hubristic acquisitions of Jaeger O’Meara and Tom Mitchell.
Outgoing Richmond CEO Brendon Gale.

Outgoing Richmond CEO Brendon Gale.CREDIT:GETTY IMAGES
But the loss of Taranto, in particular, has been significant to the 2024 recession and if the Tigers over-reached by getting Hopper with his Giant teammate – and giving up what turned into a top-10 selection – the converse argument is that they will need a core of senior players around which to build over the coming years.
The alternative is to let senior players leave and redress the lack of draft capital. But this will make Adem Yze’s already-massive task harder, bearing in mind that Liam Baker might leave to join one of the Perth clubs, and that the Tigers should gain a decent pick for him if that transpires.
Even if you accept that the Tigers erred in giving up draft picks in both 2022 and 2023 for Taranto/Hopper, the state of their playing list is more a result of the natural cycles – the system’s innate gravity – than list management blunders.

Yes, the Swans and Geelong have levitated above the pack for longer, compared with Richmond and the cautionary examples of Hawthorn and West Coast. But the Swans did finish in the bottom four in 2019 and 2020, and in the latter post-season, they had a top five pick and a fellow called Errol Gulden arrive, alongside Braeden Campbell, via their academy, plus had Nick Blakey on the books from the academy from 2018.

The other factor that is noteworthy is the exit of Damien Hardwick and the imminent departure of chief executive Brendon Gale, on the heels of Peggy O’Neal’s presidency. As greats such as Trent Cotchin, Jack Riewoldt and Shane Edwards have finished, with Dusty Martin winding down and others either turning or past 30, the Richmond of 2025-26 will contain few of the statues of the glorious 2017-2020 era.
Yze’s wish to implement his game plan – one more reliant on stoppage clearance compared to the previous transition-heavy Hardwick style (which the Tigers felt needed to be rebalanced) – has been compromised by Taranto, Hopper and Prestia’s injuries and the lack of ready-replacements.


Play Video
https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/javascript:void(0);

​



​



​



Richmond Tigers CEO Brendan Gale quit his post after 15 years before quickly being installed as Tasmania's inaugural boss.

Richmond’s regeneration, though, will need continuity of experienced players and off-field staff, who have corporate memories of 2013-2020 and can sustain a culture that has spawned success not only at Richmond, but influenced Collingwood and other clubs.
Gale has made clear that he will not be poaching renowned list boss Blair Hartley to Tassie, nor Tim Livingstone, the football performance chief. Hartley is contracted for 2025, in any case.
The Tigers have lost enough key people, and have gained sufficient fresh faces and new intellectual property. To strip back the playing ranks to near ground zero – and to further denude the football department of wise heads – would be a road to prolonged recession. Richmond people know too well what that looks like.
Click to expand...
Finally someone in the media gets it. What we're seeing now is a culmination of events that have happened since the WCE game in 2021 when the era started its final phase.

This year is ground zero of the Yze tenure and the pain we're copping now is necessary so that the future will be better.
 
fascination with picks on big footy is at insanity levels! We had strong hand in 2021 with 5 picks in top 30, 3 years later only 1 has shown any promise but is till not certain of being best 22.

Talks of trading lynch, bolton etc is ridiculous. We will become a basket case for the next 10 years and back to the glory days or ninthmond!
 
_RT_ said:
Finally someone in the media gets it. What we're seeing now is a culmination of events that have happened since the WCE game in 2021 when the era started its final phase.

This year is ground zero of the Yze tenure and the pain we're copping now is necessary so that the future will be better.
Click to expand...

All well and good RT. But this year will also be the most important since 2016 in terms of decision making. new Coach, list manager, new CEO, new President have to nail every decision in terms of players, coaches and even all the commercial stuff.
If we make the wrong decisions, it's over for the next 10 years or even more.
 
prodigy1311 said:
fascination with picks on big footy is at insanity levels! We had strong hand in 2021 with 5 picks in top 30, 3 years later only 1 has shown any promise but is till not certain of being best 22.

Talks of trading lynch, bolton etc is ridiculous. We will become a basket case for the next 10 years and back to the glory days or ninthmond!
Click to expand...
we have been rediculously unlucky with our 21' draft hand
but defiantly more then 1 player has shown any promise..
Gibcus and Judson are two of the unluckiest players on our list (but both can play)
while Brown and Sonsie are defiantly in our best 22 moving foward
Banks - the jury is still out
Agree with lynch and Bolton - both are absolute keepers
 

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Looks like a deep draft thus year according to the heraldsun. When do the tassie concessions start? Could be smart to get in as many picks as we can this year, reduce our age a bit by trading away players that want to go, we can also bring in leadership from elsewhere via free agency
 
voorhees said:
we have been rediculously unlucky with our 21' draft hand
but defiantly more then 1 player has shown any promise..
Gibcus and Judson are two of the unluckiest players on our list (but both can play)
while Brown and Sonsie are defiantly in our best 22 moving foward
Banks - the jury is still out
Agree with lynch and Bolton - both are absolute keepers
Click to expand...

While i agree with the sentiment of being unlucky but it's what we are facing currently.
Gibcus has lost 2 years of development and i am not sure if his body holds up from what we have seen so far
Judson has shown a bit but is still not best 22. hopefully with a few retirements he gets his chance next year
Sonsie - Again, he will get shafted once TT & hopper come back. not best 22 yet
Banks - i have doubts
 
prodigy1311 said:
While i agree with the sentiment of being unlucky but it's what we are facing currently.
Gibcus has lost 2 years of development and i am not sure if his body holds up from what we have seen so far
Judson has shown a bit but is still not best 22. hopefully with a few retirements he gets his chance next year
Sonsie - Again, he will get shafted once TT & hopper come back. not best 22 yet
Banks - i have doubts
Click to expand...
granted Judson is not in our best 22 calculations now ( thanks to the God damm VFL medical staff- for that monumental year ending screwing up)
But Judson has the talent and drive
just needs some non-injury luck and he will make a career.
 
A Tiger 4 lyf said:
Lynch is what the lions have been needing since 2019, wont do them any good next season because they've missed their chance

He'd sort out melbournes forward line issue, but you get the feeling, 2024 is their last chance with their talent already peaking

Collingwood probably his best fit, they've got elite smalls/mediums, missing an elite tall
Click to expand...
colonwood are about to fall off a cliff, worse list than ours
 
Would Luke Parker be worth a crack in the rookie draft if he wanted out of the swans? he's not getting a game although his form warrants a recall to the seniors.
 
Triggering Tiger said:
Would Luke Parker be worth a crack in the rookie draft if he wanted out of the swans? he's not getting a game although his form warrants a recall to the seniors.
Click to expand...
not to us
 
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