Society/Culture Transgender athlete attempting to make history in the AFLW

[Gosha]

Is this the world we live in today?

 

[Seeds]

This is an interesting one.

At the moment there are two AFL leagues for two different genders - the AFL(men) and the AFLW(women).

Correct me if I'm wrong here but doesn't the LGBT movement wish to be identified as being of a different gender(s)? i.e not male, not female, but a specific gender(perfectly fine imo).

So really there needs to either be a separate league for LGBT(obviously not possible at this point in time due to numbers), or change the name of the AFLW to something like AFLWLGBT or something that reflects what it actually is.

is what you label afl men just for men or is it open to all and it just happens that only men are good enough to play?

 

[Sainteric]

It doesn't sound all that bad, a few girls born girls might miss out on chances

More about the physics 100kg and fit vs erin phillips 5ft 8inc and 70 kgs. Sure liz cabage if she played is 6'8" and near 100kgs but i am guessing she not moving at pace aroung a football field. Not sure thats fair on the other players.

 

[Taylor]

If the physical side of things are equal, should a man transitioned into a woman and a woman transitioned into a man be fairly comparable in ability?

 

[PerthBoy87]

If the physical side of things are equal, should a man transitioned into a woman and a woman transitioned into a man be fairly comparable in ability?

Its an interesting question you raise. All things being equal (or as close as possible) in terms of speed, strength and agility, then it should be fine.

But ability - could be harder to measure. Such as good kicking skills, football brain (decision making) and things like that.

 

[PerthBoy87]

Just in: The High Court has ruled that the Government's marriage equality postal survey will proceed.

 

[Nuggs Bunny]

More about the physics 100kg and fit vs erin phillips 5ft 8inc and 70 kgs. Sure liz cabage if she played is 6'8" and near 100kgs but i am guessing she not moving at pace aroung a football field. Not sure thats fair on the other players.

So if it's "about the physics", are we going to ban the bigger girls from playing as well? Aside from size and weight (typically correlating with strength), there's no other difference between Ms. Mouncey and any other average female of her age.

 

[twotooto]

is what you label afl men just for men or is it open to all and it just happens that only men are good enough to play?

Good question, though I think it's kind of a moot point since as far as I'm aware, there has not been a person of another gender other than biological male play AFL - as we know it - up until this point in time.

So, in a sense, there has been no need to make the distinction that the AFL is a men only comp.

However, if a trans person wanted to play in the AFL and they were good enough, then so be it. I have no problem with that.

 

[Kurve]

Hi Kirsti here a transgender Footy Player. Trans inclusion in sport is a very contentious issue and as a trans athelte I do not agree with the AFL or IOC's current trans participation policies.

I am happy to share my experiences and answer any respectful questions as this subject is about to become even more contentious if changes to the current policies are not made.

Hi Kirsti, I'd love to read your view on why you don't agree with the AFL or IOC's current trans participation policies. Thanks so much in advance.

 

[kirsti]

Hi Kirsti, I'd love to read your view on why you don't agree with the AFL or IOC's current trans participation policies. Thanks so much in advance.

I believe the blanket twelve month policy adhered by the AFL and IOC to maintain appropriate testosterone levels is not fair to women's
Sport the balance of fairness is tipped to far in the fav of trans athletes particularly those that transitioned way after puberty.

Also allowing pre op players at the highest level when insufficient testing is in place also leave the door open to abuse.

Hannah Mouncey like me was a former international male athlete.
Our base line muscle mass and lung capacities would have been way above average. I recommend caution is the way forward and I defiantly recommend a longer time for testosterone levels and also improved testing procedures to be instigated.

 

[kirsti]

Good question, though I think it's kind of a moot point since as far as I'm aware, there has not been a person of another gender other than biological male play AFL - as we know it - up until this point in time.

So, in a sense, there has been no need to make the distinction that the AFL is a men only comp.

However, if a trans person wanted to play in the AFL and they were good enough, then so be it. I have no problem with that.

The first trans person to play Aussie Rules Footy was a transman Will Glover back in 2009, there are quite a few successful trans male athletes no more so then Chris Mossier the USA Biathlon International

 

[kirsti]

So if it's "about the physics", are we going to ban the bigger girls from playing as well? Aside from size and weight (typically correlating with strength), there's no other difference between Ms. Mouncey and any other average female of her age.

There are some big cisgender female athletes out there much bigger then Hannah.

 

[Seeds]

Good question, though I think it's kind of a moot point since as far as I'm aware, there has not been a person of another gender other than biological male play AFL - as we know it - up until this point in time.

So, in a sense, there has been no need to make the distinction that the AFL is a men only comp.

However, if a trans person wanted to play in the AFL and they were good enough, then so be it. I have no problem with that.

I would have no problem if they were to play afl. Aflw I dont think so but it really depends on a case by case basis.

 

[Thats Wright]

I would have no problem if they were to play afl. Aflw I dont think so but it really depends on a case by case basis.

It does hit at the integrity of the sport. Key position/ruck is probably the last type that should enter first if they want it to hold.

Would be funny/interesting though. Worth a try before they reform/ban it. Afwl can be quite a boring spectacle without a team to support.

 

[Sainteric]

So if it's "about the physics", are we going to ban the bigger girls from playing as well? Aside from size and weight (typically correlating with strength), there's no other difference between Ms. Mouncey and any other average female of her age.

Physics is not only about weight and height its also about strength and speed. Over time the wafl players will become bigger and stronger but ms mouncey will have an unfair advantage.

 

[Frank Bunn]

I welcome this development. It will highlight the blatant discrimination where men, women and other genders are forced to play in separate competitions. Geez people, it's not the 1950s. We need to implement policies of 'sport equality' right now.

 

[WA ROO]

There are some big cisgender female athletes out there much bigger then Hannah.
View attachment 412809

Sad that she passed so young

Any chance of comparing her x rays with a male athlete of similar size
Say Aaron Sandilands

 

[Tiger08]

Do you really think there would be a future where elite international sport is entirely men, or women competing as women but born as men?

It would be quite ridiculous.

That may be.. but otherwise someone might be sad.

 

[Dan Moody]

I welcome this development. It will highlight the blatant discrimination where men, women and other genders are forced to play in separate competitions. Geez people, it's not the 1950s. We need to implement policies of 'sport equality' right now.

couldn't agree more, let's start by making female tennis players endure 5 sets, get rid of the heptathlon and make them do the decathlon.
i can hear the uproar now

 

[twotooto]

The first trans person to play Aussie Rules Footy was a transman Will Glover back in 2009, there are quite a few successful trans male athletes no more so then Chris Mossier the USA Biathlon International

Yes, I'm talking about the professional AFL league - has there been a trans(biological female transitioning to male) that has played in the professional, top echelon, AFL comp?

I'm sure, at a domestic level, there are trans people that have played domestic level Australian Rules footy. Would not be surprised if there has been straight females that have done so as well.

I would have no problem if they were to play afl. Aflw I dont think so but it really depends on a case by case basis.

Ok. Perhaps I wasn't clear enough in my first post in this thread. To be clear, the AFLW, up until now(1 year in), has been a professional league for women. I actually do not think it's fair to call it a "women's league" and let trans that were formerly men play in that league unless the title of the league is changed from AFLW to something that represents what it actually is. Whether that be AFLWLGBT or something else, I don't know.

Again, I'm fine with trans women playing in the AFLW but let's call it what it actually is, in that case.

I also think that since it was birthed as a women's league the women playing in the league should have been consulted in some way first before allowing changes to be made on who is, or isn't, eligible to play.

 

[Taylor]

I also think that since it was birthed as a women's league the women playing in the league should have been consulted in some way first before allowing changes to be made on who is, or isn't, eligible to play.

You might be shocked, maybe not, but there are a lot of openly gay women playing AFLW currently and the LGBTI community are quite strong. I don't want to say that everyone stands up for everyone else but it is like those who have crossed the fence have a different, more open, perspective towards these gender and sexual identity issues.

 

[kirsti]

http://www.thesportster.com/entertainment/top-15-famous-transgender-athletes/

 

[Dan Moody]

http://www.thesportster.com/entertainment/top-15-famous-transgender-athletes/

Caster Semenya is not transgender. She was born female and identifies as female. That article is about as accurate as as a New Idea exposè on Lleyton and Bec Hewitt

 

[Herne Hill Hammer]

Caster Semenya is not transgender. She was born female and identifies as female. That article is about as accurate as as a New Idea exposè on Lleyton and Bec Hewitt

She has been throwing these photos and links up in the thread on the main footy board.

 

[King Brown]

You might be shocked, maybe not, but there are a lot of openly gay women playing AFLW currently and the LGBTI community are quite strong. I don't want to say that everyone stands up for everyone else but it is like those who have crossed the fence have a different, more open, perspective towards these gender and sexual identity issues.

They're not a singular block. Radfem lesbians loathe transgender women, especially those that haven't fully transitioned.