Unions need more power in Australia

[TimmeT]

So one example is symbolic of the whole?

You'd be an amazing scientist

The union movement made comments like the right to strike is dead, nonexistent, can't happen...

Here is an example of it clearly happening and also showing that the union movement made strategic misrepresentations about the operation of the legislation in relation to the Sydney Trains disputes in order to attempt to illicit sympathy and plight for their cause.

Again another example of the Union movement telling porkies in order to try and forward their position.

 

[Gough]

With both Joyce and Campion on stress leave this week they should take some time out to thank unions for continuing to fight for rights like this and perhaps Barn could ask himself why he's constantly trying to stop others enjoying the same conditions as he does.

 

[Benny78]

http://www.news.com.au/national/bre...n/news-story/e77b928a53a21646288fca30745b506c

Electrical Trades Union Queensland acting secretary Peter Ong told the senators firms were favouring labour-hire companies instead of using electricians on industrial agreements with good pay and conditions.

"There should be 50 directly employed electricians building a solar farm," Mr Ong said.

"I have five electricians and 45 backpackers who are employed through labour hire and paid poverty wages."

He said the union was aware of unlicensed work on solar farm work sites.

"The real sickening thing for us and our members in the regions is that these are projects that could have delivered decent ongoing jobs for regional Queenslanders," Mr Ong said.

"Instead, there's no real jobs being delivered to any Queenslanders, they're delivered to backpackers."

Those damn unions!

 

[DaRick]

Taking into account the fact that unions can become corrupt and shiftless like any other organisation, unions have historically done a great deal to improve workers rights and their weakening down the years (few Australians belong to unions nowadays) probably has undermined the position of workers with weaker bargaining power (especially the inherently vulnerable like the disabled).

However, the advent of offshoring, technological advances and increasing access to foreign labour (including overseas students) mean that unions are losing some of their relevance. Not only can companies sidestep unionised (and even non-unionised) Australian workers more easily, but technology is increasingly leading to a post-employment society (but many of our politicians seem oblivious to that fact). It's hard for unions to be as effective as before when fewer people are employed.

So in summary, I have no problem with a moderate amount of union power in the workplace as long as corruption is kept to a minimum, but I wouldn't expect miracles from unions from here on out.

 

[Carn The Berries]

http://www.news.com.au/national/bre...n/news-story/e77b928a53a21646288fca30745b506c

Electrical Trades Union Queensland acting secretary Peter Ong told the senators firms were favouring labour-hire companies instead of using electricians on industrial agreements with good pay and conditions.

"There should be 50 directly employed electricians building a solar farm," Mr Ong said.

"I have five electricians and 45 backpackers who are employed through labour hire and paid poverty wages."

He said the union was aware of unlicensed work on solar farm work sites.

"The real sickening thing for us and our members in the regions is that these are projects that could have delivered decent ongoing jobs for regional Queenslanders," Mr Ong said.

"Instead, there's no real jobs being delivered to any Queenslanders, they're delivered to backpackers."

Those damn unions!

Aside from what appears to be a vague reference to it in the article was there any insinuation that the quality of work being provided on these sites was compromised because non-union labour was used? If there isn't (I'm guessing not - if there was that would be the substance of the article) then what exactly is the issue here? Should businesses use more expensive labour to have the same work done?

Interesting that the Queensland Council of Unions saw fit to send 5 delegates to discuss this with the committee (and a separate representative from the AMWU). Surely a couple of delegates would be enough, particularly given they only met with the committee for an hour.

 

[Carn The Berries]

Oh dear.... Seems even journalists are having issues understanding the basic concept of how company tax is applied in this country...

http://www.abc.net.au/mediawatch/transcripts/s4805870.htm

"You can still see Alberici’s news story online, but it has now been drastically rewritten, and we believe it needed to be – to clear up the confusion between income and profit, to moderate the tone, and to get rid of gratuitous swipes like this depiction of Goldman Sachs a.. the great vampire squid wrapped around the face of humanity, relentlessly jamming its blood funnel into anything that smells like money …"

It's not confusion... It's mis-representing the truth to fit an agenda... And for the record, tax avoidance is 100% legal, we should be worried if it isn't rife in the economy!

 

[nobbyiscool]

Oh dear.... Seems even journalists are having issues understanding the basic concept of how company tax is applied in this country...

http://www.abc.net.au/mediawatch/transcripts/s4805870.htm

"You can still see Alberici’s news story online, but it has now been drastically rewritten, and we believe it needed to be – to clear up the confusion between income and profit, to moderate the tone, and to get rid of gratuitous swipes like this depiction of Goldman Sachs a.. the great vampire squid wrapped around the face of humanity, relentlessly jamming its blood funnel into anything that smells like money …"

It's not confusion... It's mis-representing the truth to fit an agenda... And for the record, tax avoidance is 100% legal, we should be worried if it isn't rife in the economy!

The point with Alberici's article isn't/wasn't about tax avoidance. It's about how cuts to company tax don't benefit the economy - and they sure as hell don't help the job market - when so many companies are already not paying tax, and when those super profits aren't trickling down in line with what conservative governments around the world argue will happen despite all evidence to the contrary.

 

[Carn The Berries]

The point with Alberici's article isn't/wasn't about tax avoidance. It's about how cuts to company tax don't benefit the economy - and they sure as hell don't help the job market - when so many companies are already not paying tax, and when those super profits aren't trickling down in line with what conservative governments around the world argue will happen despite all evidence to the contrary.

Just for clarification... You're saying that the point of an article with the headline "Mega Profits with no tax - corporate tax avoidance rife in Australia" is not about tax avoidance? That seems highly unlikely to me...

The other article, which was taken down completely, did indeed discuss the merits of tax cuts. But that had absolutely nothing to do with the point that I was making.

 

[AM]

I'm convinced. Our big companies need relief from the heavy burden of taxation. Wait a minute!


http://bit.ly/2CDTnLh

 

[nobbyiscool]

Just for clarification... You're saying that the point of an article with the headline "Mega Profits with no tax - corporate tax avoidance rife in Australia" is not about tax avoidance? That seems highly unlikely to me...

The other article, which was taken down completely, did indeed discuss the merits of tax cuts. But that had absolutely nothing to do with the point that I was making.

Headlines often don't reflect an article - the journo doesn't usually write the headline. And increasingly in 2017, what the sub-editor comes up with is just clickbait.

I read an article not that long ago on that exact issue (clickbait) that found people who don't read a headline have a different perception of articles compared to people that do read a headline. Note that it didn't make a judgement on whose understanding was better, just that it was different. I'll see whether I can find it (I reckon it was probably the media union that shared it.)

 

[DaRick]

I'm convinced. Our big companies need relief from the heavy burden of taxation. Wait a minute!


http://bit.ly/2CDTnLh

Recommended reading from Ha-Joon Chang:

- 23 Things They Don't Tell You About Capitalism
- Bad Samaritans

 

[Carn The Berries]

Headlines often don't reflect an article - the journo doesn't usually write the headline. And increasingly in 2017, what the sub-editor comes up with is just clickbait.

I read an article not that long ago on that exact issue (clickbait) that found people who don't read a headline have a different perception of articles compared to people that do read a headline. Note that it didn't make a judgement on whose understanding was better, just that it was different. I'll see whether I can find it (I reckon it was probably the media union that shared it.)

There was enough reference to the subject I was referring to that necessitated a re-writing of the article because it was making factual errors (which could be an innocent mistake on the part of the writer, however that is possibly an even scarier thought that such an acclaimed journo in this subject area could have a fundamental misunderstanding of how the tax system works).

"In Australia and New Zealand the Company has utilised previously unrecognised tax losses to offset taxable income generated during the period. The Company has deferred the recognition of past tax losses in Australia and New Zealand until a history of taxable profits has been demonstrated. Australian and New Zealand tax losses are able to be carried forward indefinitely." - Bluescope Steel FY18 Half Year Report.

Guess the people jumping up and down about them paying no tax missed that part of the report. Or are they advocating for companies to NOT BE ALLOWED to use past losses to offset gains?

 

[AM]

The more I see of Hewson's remarks post his political career, the more he's growing on me.

 

[Carn The Berries]

Not sure if anyone has seen what is currently happening in the US. While my initial thought is that it seems wrong to compel non-union members to contribute to union coffers the potential disruption that this would cause seems immense.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...justices-take-aim-at-union-fees-idUSKCN1GA1VB

Where it gets really murky is that it is nearly impossible to delineate what funds are used for what purposes which implicitly means that some funds provided by non-members can be used to fund political agendas (whether those views differ from those held by non-members is a case by case issue).

Given the majority of Conservative judges on the bench you'd think that the case will be upheld. What happens from there is anyone's guess.

 

[NSWCROW]

A quick summary of todays QT

CFMEU are worse than Hitler , isis , westboro baptist church , vegemite , MAFS and the holocaust combined....
Lock your doors tonight Australia !!!!

 

[ChampRevesby]

I'm convinced. Our big companies need relief from the heavy burden of taxation. Wait a minute!

They paid no tax because they made a loss. BUT the majority of that loss was taxed through their use of capital, wages, products purchased etc. they just didn't get hit twice.

 

[Benny78]

It's a shame we never got to see a Hewson v Latham election campaign.

That would've been... awesome.

 

[Procrastinator35]

A quick summary of todays QT

CFMEU are worse than Hitler , isis , westboro baptist church , vegemite , MAFS and the holocaust combined....
Lock your doors tonight Australia !!!!

Sounds like a Total Power rant post....All the usual MSM propaganda bases covered then.

Hysteria....Check
Hyperbole....Check
Fear-mongering....Check
Smearing....Check
AD Hom Hit-Job....Check
Manufactured Consent....Check.

Capitalism is good, Greed is great, Money is God.....Socialism & all form of equality & equanimity measures are the devil.

 

[NSWCROW]

^^ the libs have been banging on about this for over a year yet the general public couldnt give 2 shits.

 

[Procrastinator35]

^^ the libs have been banging on about this for over a year yet the general public couldnt give 2 shits.

The Libs are too busy selling us out to Murdoch & the multi-nationals.

 

[AM]

It's a shame we never got to see a Hewson v Latham election campaign.

That would've been... awesome.

Please! Hewson and Latham.

One is an intelligent, articulate, measured, well presented individual. The other is Latham.

 

[Carn The Berries]

They paid no tax because they made a loss. BUT the majority of that loss was taxed through their use of capital, wages, products purchased etc. they just didn't get hit twice.

But... But... But... They paid no company tax... In the very specific and narrow time period that they chose to use for their analysis... Without providing any context or commentary on why that might be the case

 

[Power Raid]

The union movement made comments like the right to strike is dead, nonexistent, can't happen...

Here is an example of it clearly happening and also showing that the union movement made strategic misrepresentations about the operation of the legislation in relation to the Sydney Trains disputes in order to attempt to illicit sympathy and plight for their cause.

Again another example of the Union movement telling porkies in order to try and forward their position.

Trade unions, politicians and all lobby groups should be forced to incorporate and be held to account under the corporation act.

Misleading and deceptive conduct would be mitigated if there were legal remedies.

 

[Lebbo73]

Please! Hewson and Latham.

One is an intelligent, articulate, measured, well presented individual. The other is Latham.

So intelligent that he didn’t even know how to apply the gst to a cake!

 

[Power Raid]

https://www.theage.com.au/business/...ion-gets-the-green-light-20180306-p4z309.html

interesting times