US Open - 2017

[PhatBoy]

one could argue that Federer's Wimbledon win potentially owed a lot to his preparation if you're going down the path of comparing their overall season. Who's to say that if Nadal didn't play the French, he wouldn't have done better at Wimbledon.

 

[Flameboy]

If Federer wins the Tour Finals, it's a legitimate discussion. As it stands, Nadal.

Although we were told for years by Nadal fans that H2H is the important thing in tennis, so I guess they'd disagree and say Federer?

Don't engage in unnecessary hyperbole.

At this stage Rafa shades him, just. Only due to the fact he's gone 2 slams + a final, v Fed's 2 slams.

Rafa's won more and gone to number 1, but that is definitely counterbalanced by Fed beating him 3 times.

 

[JackNah_8]

I don't understand the need to compare players all the time, is this a blokey thing? I couldn't care less who is the GOAT or the best out of Roger and Rafa and so on. I have my favourites for various reasons but don't feel the need to make comparisons all the time.

Anyway, carry on...

Me too, I don't want to compare both players. It's too hard lol. Both had a great year, now let's see who wins the Masters. Credit to both, they continue to compete at a high level.

 

[Collingwoodity]

You kidding right.....Rublev is a kid so let's ignore him. The kid is talented and will have a good career but he is a kid.

The fact that you are comparing Dolgopolov and Anderson with Bag and Poo is poor enough. Poo made 2 slam finals and was as dangerous as they come on his day. Baghdatis was on a special roll during that Aus Open. Both have a career high of 8, both have 20 odd top 10 wins.

Andersons CH is 10, 12 Top 10 wins. He is only one year younger than Baggy as well. Dolgopolov!!!!!!!! He has 3 career titles to his name, career HIGH of 13.

And you compare Dolgopolov to Roddick!!!!!!!!!.........A lot of people don't rate Roddick but he would still kick Anderson's arse, let alone Dolgopolov. Roddick won 32 career titles, including a grand slam. That is way more than the other 4 combined.

Don't bag "Fed fans" when you come up with stupid statements like the one above.

Between, Poo, Roddick and Bag they have 1 slam. Qualitative excuses like "Rublev is a kid" or Dolgopolov and Anderson are poor because their career high rankings are 10 and 13 versus 8 and 8 for Poo and Bag. Like I said, the difference is marginal. If you analyse each player I am sure you can find an argument to suit.

I am not sure why "Fed fans" get so upset. Nadal won the US Open, don't demean it. If you do demean it, you should be able to cop a reply without sooking.

 

[BobbyMorri]

Between, Poo, Roddick and Bag they have 1 slam. Qualitative excuses like "Rublev is a kid" or Dolgopolov and Anderson are poor because their career high rankings are 10 and 13 versus 8 and 8 for Poo and Bag. Like I said, the difference is marginal. If you analyse each player I am sure you can find an argument to suit.

I am not sure why "Fed fans" get so upset. Nadal won the US Open, don't demean it. If you do demean it, you should be able to cop a reply without sooking.

This is why I hate Fed v Rafa. so deluded.

Would love to see your argument on how Dolgopolov is a good tennis player. Let alone comparing him to Poo/Baggy.

 

[PhatBoy]

This is why I hate Fed v Rafa. so deluded.

Would love to see your argument on how Dolgopolov is a good tennis player. Let alone comparing him to Poo/Baggy.

Well for starters Baghdatis has won a whole 1 more career title than Dolgopolov despite being on tour for 3 more years, including the period before it was monopolised by Nadal, Federer and Djokovic.

 

[Wolfs]

Rankings

Spoiler: Top 50 - ATP

1. Nadal - 9465 -
2. Federer - 7505 (+1) -
3. Murray - 6790 (-1) -
4. Zverev - 4470 (+2) -
5. Cilic - 4155 (+2) -
6. Djokovic - 4125 (-1)
7. Thiem - 4030 (+1)
8. Wawrinka - 3690 (-4)
9. Dimitrov - 3575
10. Carreno Busta - 2855 (+9) -

11. Raonic - 2825 -
12. Goffin - 2695 (+2)
13. Bautista Agut - 2525
14. Nishikori - 2475 (-4) -
15. Anderson - 2470 (+17) -
16. Querrey - 2445 (+5) -
17. Isner - 2425 (-2)
18. Tsonga - 2375 (-6) -
19. Berdych - 2355 (-1) -
20. Kyrgios - 2245 (-3)

21. Sock - 2175 (-5)
22. Pouille - 2030 (-2)
23. Muller - 1920 -
24. Del Potro - 1820 (+4) -
25. Ramos - 1815 (-1)
26. Ferrer - 1615 (-1)
27. Zverev - 1594
28. Schwartzman - 1585 (+5)
29. Fognini - 1545 (-3) -
30. Gasquet - 1390
31. Mannarino - 1335 (+3)
32. Khachanov - 1330 (-3) -

33. Cuevas - 1215 (-2)
34. Kohlschreiber - 1305 (+3)
35. Lopez - 1295
36. Monfils - 1285 (-14)
37. Rublev - 1233 (+16)
38. Lorenzi - 1190 (+2)
39. Haase - 1165 (-3)
40. Verdasco - 1115 (+3)
41. Paire - 1085
42. Sugita - 1082 (+2)
43. Simon - 1075 (-4)
44. Chung - 1017 (+3)
45. Johnson - 1000 (+1)
46. Edmund - 992 (-4)
47. Troicki - 965 (+5)
48. Bedene - 958
49. Karlovic - 955 (-11)
50. Harrison - 936 (-5)

Spoiler: Others - ATP

Shapovalov (+18) - 51
Dolgopolov (+12) - 52
Thompson (+3) - 70
Fabbiano (+10) - 72
Darcis (-11) - 77
Kukushkin (+25) - 78
Estrella Burgos (+11) - 79
Kuznetsov (-13) - 88
Stebe (+17) - 90

Spoiler: Top 50 - WTA

1. Muguruza - 6030 (+2) -
2. Halep - 5965 -
3. Svitolina - 5640 (+1) -
4. Pliskova - 5520 (-3) -
5. Venus - 4756 (+4) -
6. Wozniacki - 4640 (-1) -
7. Konta - 4520 -
8. Kuznetsova - 4410 -
9. Cibulkova - 3770 (+1) -
10. Ostapenko - 3502 (+2) -

11. Radwanska - 3460 -
12. Keys - 3403 (+4)
13. Kvitova - 3310 (+1)
14. Kerber - 3156 (-8) -
15. Mladenovic - 3095 (-2) -
16. Vandeweghe - 2764 (+6)
17. Stephens - 2711 (+66)
18. Sevastova - 2295 (-1)
19. Vesnina - 2140 (-1)
20. Garcia - 2135 (-1)

21. Gavrilova - 2135 (-1) -
22. Serena - 2030 (-7)
23. Pavlyuchenkova - 1945 (-2)
24. Peng - 1860 -
25. Strycova - 1785
26. Goerges - 1740 (+7)
27. Rybarikova - 1707 (+5)
28. Zhang - 1685 (-2)
29. Bertens - 1670 (-2) -
30. Kontaveit - 1630 (-1) -
31. Kasatkina - 1625 (+7)
32. Lucic-Baroni - 1615 (-1)

33. Safarova - 1610 (+4)
34. Bacsinszky - 1588 (-6)
35. Makarova - 1475 (+5)
36. Suarez Navarro - 1470 (-1)
37. Barty - 1450 (+6)
38. Davis - 1416 (-4)
39. Tsurenko - 1395 (-9)
40. Konjuh - 1385 (-17)
41. Mertens - 1358 (-2)
42. Bellis - 1285 (-6)
43. Siniakova - 1275 (-1)
44. Pliskova - 1253 (-3)
45. Cornet - 1242 (+1)
46. Osaka - 1230 (-1)
47. Vekic - 1210 (+5)
48. Dodin - 1198
49. Stosur - 1176 (-5)
50. Riske - 1170 (-1)

Spoiler: Others - WTA

Brady (+26) - 65
Kozlova (+35) - 83
Vinci (-37) - 84
Zvonareva (+317) - 306

 

[imadodgyumpire]

Well done Rafa, well deserved win. A shame both finals were one sided but that's how it goes sometimes. A bit like sometimes the prelim finals are better than the granny (unless your team wins of course )

Surely even you thought the 2013 GF was garbage?

 

[officialjc]

i dont like all this goat debate. to me, like i said at the aus open is that they are both the goats. they should be celebrated as the two who revolutionised and domininated modern era tennis.

 

[imadodgyumpire]

Why don't you enjoy considering or analysing who is better, and has been better, between two of the greatest players in the sport?

Unfortunatley you're going to be in the minority here. In pretty much every sport, there are always going to be fans comparing players and analysing who they believe is better. That's why we have world records, that's why there is so much emphasis on total Grand Slams won. It allows fans who don't know each other to come together and generate discussion. It allows rivalries to be born and grow.

From my experience following motorsport. There's an undefined point where once someone reaches a certain level, it doesn't matter who's better. They're in effect the same level, and it's just a matter of comparing style.

 

[juice t]

Hingis has had an incredible career. She won her 29th and 30th career Grand Slams, doing the double in the doubles.

View attachment 414703

She's won 10 GS doubles titles since she got inducted into the HOF

 

[imadodgyumpire]

Why would you let a win destroy a friendship? if this was the case the tour would be a very lonely place as Sharpie would tell you.

Was this post directed at mine?

 

[BobbyMorri]

Well for starters Baghdatis has won a whole 1 more career title than Dolgopolov despite being on tour for 3 more years, including the period before it was monopolised by Nadal, Federer and Djokovic.

because that is relevant here. When was the last time either of these have played an ATP 250 event?

I am sure Dolgopolov would have better results if he didn't match fix.

 

[officialjc]

wow, carreno busta 10th in the ATP rankings. this is a man that kyrgios routinely beat in the 1st round in this years aus open. wasted talent.

 

[ozgamer]

wow, carreno busta 10th in the ATP rankings. this is a man that kyrgios routinely beat in the 1st round in this years aus open. wasted talent.

last year's Aus Open. Carreno Busta has clearly improved since then but in that time Kyrgios should be now where Sasha Zverev is (in rankings e.g. top 5) plus contending for every tournament he's playing incl the Slams . So a definite yes on Kyrgios = wasted talent.

 

[Collingwoodity]

Well your original post wasnt really looking like an example and more like a dig at Fed fans given the last line and then you throw in another dig about cheap Fed likes as though you arent doing the same to the anti-fed crusaders on this board. People have their favs but dont let the pot call the kettle black.

Dig at Federer fans? Nah. Defending Nadal from Federer fans demeaning Nadal's achievement.

I wasn't on here finding flaws in Federer's GS wins. I don't see why it's ok for Fed fans to bag Nadal's GS win but then complain when someone does the same to Federer as an example. Yes, it was an example. I prefer Nadal but I can appreciate the fact that Federer was better than Nadal at the Australian Open for example. Can you do the same for Nadal?

 

[Collingwoodity]

The reality is right now it is a transition era in the mens. It means that until these up and comers get more mature/fit then you will see so called soft runs to Slams. In this era you will still see Federer and Nadal be good enough to jag a few Slams over the next 2 years or so. Then hopefully you see the new players up the top and contending.

I thought it would have happened sooner but Father Time catches up with every player.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Flameboy]

Rankings

Spoiler: Top 50 - ATP

1. Nadal - 9465 -
2. Federer - 7505 (+1) -
3. Murray - 6790 (-1) -
4. Zverev - 4470 (+2) -
5. Cilic - 4155 (+2) -
6. Djokovic - 4125 (-1)
7. Thiem - 4030 (+1)
8. Wawrinka - 3690 (-4)
9. Dimitrov - 3575
10. Carreno Busta - 2855 (+9) -

11. Raonic - 2825 -
12. Goffin - 2695 (+2)
13. Bautista Agut - 2525
14. Nishikori - 2475 (-4) -
15. Anderson - 2470 (+17) -
16. Querrey - 2445 (+5) -
17. Isner - 2425 (-2)
18. Tsonga - 2375 (-6) -
19. Berdych - 2355 (-1) -
20. Kyrgios - 2245 (-3)

21. Sock - 2175 (-5)
22. Pouille - 2030 (-2)
23. Muller - 1920 -
24. Del Potro - 1820 (+4) -
25. Ramos - 1815 (-1)
26. Ferrer - 1615 (-1)
27. Zverev - 1594
28. Schwartzman - 1585 (+5)
29. Fognini - 1545 (-3) -
30. Gasquet - 1390
31. Mannarino - 1335 (+3)
32. Khachanov - 1330 (-3) -

33. Cuevas - 1215 (-2)
34. Kohlschreiber - 1305 (+3)
35. Lopez - 1295
36. Monfils - 1285 (-14)
37. Rublev - 1233 (+16)
38. Lorenzi - 1190 (+2)
39. Haase - 1165 (-3)
40. Verdasco - 1115 (+3)
41. Paire - 1085
42. Sugita - 1082 (+2)
43. Simon - 1075 (-4)
44. Chung - 1017 (+3)
45. Johnson - 1000 (+1)
46. Edmund - 992 (-4)
47. Troicki - 965 (+5)
48. Bedene - 958
49. Karlovic - 955 (-11)
50. Harrison - 936 (-5)

Spoiler: Others - ATP

Shapovalov (+18) - 51
Dolgopolov (+12) - 52
Thompson (+3) - 70
Fabbiano (+10) - 72
Darcis (-11) - 77
Kukushkin (+25) - 78
Estrella Burgos (+11) - 79
Kuznetsov (-13) - 88
Stebe (+17) - 90

Spoiler: Top 50 - WTA

1. Muguruza - 6030 (+2) -
2. Halep - 5965 -
3. Svitolina - 5640 (+1) -
4. Pliskova - 5520 (-3) -
5. Venus - 4756 (+4) -
6. Wozniacki - 4640 (-1) -
7. Konta - 4520 -
8. Kuznetsova - 4410 -
9. Cibulkova - 3770 (+1) -
10. Ostapenko - 3502 (+2) -

11. Radwanska - 3460 -
12. Keys - 3403 (+4)
13. Kvitova - 3310 (+1)
14. Kerber - 3156 (-8) -
15. Mladenovic - 3095 (-2) -
16. Vandeweghe - 2764 (+6)
17. Stephens - 2711 (+66)
18. Sevastova - 2295 (-1)
19. Vesnina - 2140 (-1)
20. Garcia - 2135 (-1)

21. Gavrilova - 2135 (-1) -
22. Serena - 2030 (-7)
23. Pavlyuchenkova - 1945 (-2)
24. Peng - 1860 -
25. Strycova - 1785
26. Goerges - 1740 (+7)
27. Rybarikova - 1707 (+5)
28. Zhang - 1685 (-2)
29. Bertens - 1670 (-2) -
30. Kontaveit - 1630 (-1) -
31. Kasatkina - 1625 (+7)
32. Lucic-Baroni - 1615 (-1)

33. Safarova - 1610 (+4)
34. Bacsinszky - 1588 (-6)
35. Makarova - 1475 (+5)
36. Suarez Navarro - 1470 (-1)
37. Barty - 1450 (+6)
38. Davis - 1416 (-4)
39. Tsurenko - 1395 (-9)
40. Konjuh - 1385 (-17)
41. Mertens - 1358 (-2)
42. Bellis - 1285 (-6)
43. Siniakova - 1275 (-1)
44. Pliskova - 1253 (-3)
45. Cornet - 1242 (+1)
46. Osaka - 1230 (-1)
47. Vekic - 1210 (+5)
48. Dodin - 1198
49. Stosur - 1176 (-5)
50. Riske - 1170 (-1)

Spoiler: Others - WTA

Brady (+26) - 65
Kozlova (+35) - 83
Vinci (-37) - 84
Zvonareva (+317) - 306

Sharapova up 43 spots to 103 also.

 

[vast]

Dig at Federer fans? Nah. Defending Nadal from Federer fans demeaning Nadal's achievement.

I wasn't on here finding flaws in Federer's GS wins. I don't see why it's ok for Fed fans to bag Nadal's GS win but then complain when someone does the same to Federer as an example. Yes, it was an example. I prefer Nadal but I can appreciate the fact that Federer was better than Nadal at the Australian Open for example. Can you do the same for Nadal?

You must be new to the site because Feds achievements have been downplayed here a lot more than Nadals and for longer.

And yes you took several cheap digs at Fed fans at least be honest enough to admit it.

 

[Collingwoodity]

You must be new to the site because Feds achievements have been downplayed here a lot more than Nadals and for longer.

And yes you took several cheap digs at Fed fans at least be honest enough to admit it.

I don't downplay Feds achievements. If that's what happens in your eyes so be it.

I'm honest in that I was defending the cheap shots from Fed fans. Check out how many said Nadal was walking in a Dutch countryside to win this slam.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[BobbyMorri]

I don't downplay Feds achievements. If that's what happens in your eyes so be it.

I'm honest in that I was defending the cheap shots from Fed fans. Check out how many said Nadal was walking in a Dutch countryside to win this slam.

It's amazing. This thread is busiest now that the tournament is over. Actually, that always happens, especially when Fed/Rafa/Nole wins.

it is not a cheap shot to say what we were all saying before and during the tournament. It was a weak tournament. I would have said that regardless of who won. The fact that Nadal is the first person not to face a top 20 player in a winning GS is a testament to that and the draw.

You do downplay Fed achievements. U love your cheap shots(see below from the French).

I just had a quick look at the French Open thread(and the Wimbledon thread, where strangely there wasn't a GOAT discussion and you were absent....) and it was you who started that GOAT discussion, despite the fact that everyone on that thread was loving Nadal.

The decision to skip the GS is a clever one and is consistent with his standards.

personally, I with Bumpswithagrin and that I hate these discussions. Both Rafa and Fed fans are annoying, especially American ones.

Oh well, Davis Cup next weekend. Should be a ripper.

 

[Collingwoodity]

It's amazing. This thread is busiest now that the tournament is over. Actually, that always happens, especially when Fed/Rafa/Nole wins.

it is not a cheap shot to say what we were all saying before and during the tournament. It was a weak tournament. I would have said that regardless of who won. The fact that Nadal is the first person not to face a top 20 player in a winning GS is a testament to that and the draw.

You do downplay Fed achievements. U love your cheap shots(see below from the French).

I just had a quick look at the French Open thread(and the Wimbledon thread, where strangely there wasn't a GOAT discussion and you were absent....) and it was you who started that GOAT discussion, despite the fact that everyone on that thread was loving Nadal.

personally, I with Bumpswithagrin and that I hate these discussions. Both Rafa and Fed fans are annoying, especially American ones.

Oh well, Davis Cup next weekend. Should be a ripper.

Not everyone was loving Nadal. They were bagging him because it was a weak tourney just like you have.

You have no clue and you are misconstruing what I said. How is Federer electing to miss a grand slam an achievement? I think it was calculated and clever of him. Just like he always is. That's how he has got to be where he is. I personally don't like it but obviously I am not allowed to say that because you don't like it.

If that's a cheap shot then I guess you have soft skin. I didn't start any goat discussion. None. I was absent in the Wimbledon thread because I was not able to watch the tournament. Is that an acceptable reason for not commenting in that thread for you? You'll also notice that I did not and have not bagged Federer for the apparent easy Wimbledon run because I don't think that's a good thing to do after someone wins something. It is demeaning.

If you hate the discussion why are you even talking about it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Rabbit of Caerbannog]

Federer still needed to beat Bagdahtis, Roddick & Phillipoussis in GS finals but are they actually any better than Anderson, Dolgopolov or Gublev? Not really, the difference is marginal.

Well, at least we know why your view of Federer is so disconnected from the majority of tennis fans. You think Andy Roddick is marginally better than Alexandr Dolgopolov. I'm not sure anything more needs to be said.

Not everyone was loving Nadal. They were bagging him because it was a weak tourney just like you have.

But people weren't calling the tournament weak because Nadal won. They were calling it weak because it was weak. They were calling it weak while Federer was still alive and fully capable of capitalising on it himself. They also called a tournament Federer won (Wimbledon) weak.

Again, it's strange how sensitive you are to people allegedly demeaning an achievement by Nadal when you have no problem demeaning achievements by other players. You demeaned Andy Roddick's entire career FFS.

You have no clue and you are misconstruing what I said. How is Federer electing to miss a grand slam an achievement? I think it was calculated and clever of him. Just like he always is. That's how he has got to be where he is. I personally don't like it but obviously I am not allowed to say that because you don't like it.

Why do you keep alluding to Federer skipping the clay season this way without revealing your full thoughts? What do you mean by clever and calculated? How has he got where he is because of decisions like that one? Why don't you like it?

Federer is at an age in which almost every other past great was long retired. If skipping tournaments helps him prolong his career, why shouldn't he do it? What's so objectionable about it? I wish he started years ago. I'm certain a fresher Federer could've won one of those Wimbledon finals against Djokovic.

I mean, Nadal most likely won't be playing at all in 4-5 years, yet you have a problem with Federer not playing a full schedule? It doesn't make sense.

 

[red+black]

If I get rid of Foxtel, what are my options for legally watching the tennis slams?

Ideally I'd like to just buy a 2-week pass from the AO, RG, WM, US sites and/or an ATP season pass, if such things were available.

Just answering my own question. Apologies if this is all common knowledge.

ESPN has the USO contract but SBS screened the quarters, semis and finals (TV and online).
Probably worthwhile to make use of the 2-week free trial of Foxtel Now: www.foxtel.com.au/Foxtel-Now/. Not sure if that can be redeemed once every 12 months.

The entire ATP Tour (ex. the 4 slams) can be streamed via https://www.tennistv.com/. Some events are geoblocked for some countries, none are geoblocked for Australia. $20 for 1 month or $150 for 12 months (both from date of purchase).

Site has a useful tournament schedule: https://www.tennistv.com/tournaments/2017/09

 

[Collingwoodity]

Well, at least we know why your view of Federer is so disconnected from the majority of tennis fans. You think Andy Roddick is marginally better than Alexandr Dolgopolov. I'm not sure anything more needs to be said.



But people weren't calling the tournament weak because Nadal won. They were calling it weak because it was weak. They were calling it weak while Federer was still alive and fully capable of capitalising on it himself. They also called a tournament Federer won (Wimbledon) weak.

Again, it's strange how sensitive you are to people allegedly demeaning an achievement by Nadal when you have no problem demeaning achievements by other players. You demeaned Andy Roddick's entire career FFS.



Why do you keep alluding to Federer skipping the clay season this way without revealing your full thoughts? What do you mean by clever and calculated? How has he got where he is because of decisions like that one? Why don't you like it?

Federer is at an age in which almost every other past great was long retired. If skipping tournaments helps him prolong his career, why shouldn't he do it? What's so objectionable about it? I wish he started years ago. I'm certain a fresher Federer could've won one of those Wimbledon finals against Djokovic.

I mean, Nadal most likely won't be playing at all in 4-5 years, yet you have a problem with Federer not playing a full schedule? It doesn't make sense.

Semantics about descriptions of who is better. I love Roddick, however, he won a GS in a transition era. He lost 4 finals to Federer proving he is not in the same company as Nadal Djoker Murray etc who came along and beat Federer on occasion or regularly respectively.

Federer skipped the clay season so that he could focus on his better surfaces. Is that not clever and calculated? It worked in that he won a GS at Wimbledon.

He is a smart player and his 19 GSs proves that. There is nothing more to it.

On a personal level, I would prefer all players to play in a tournament if they are fit. It makes the tournament more prestigious and exciting. However, that is not relevant because I am not Federer's coach.