Europe War in Ukraine - Thread 4 - thread rules updated

[Gethelred]

Hey all,

Seeing as multiple people seem to have forgotten, abuse is against the rules of BF. Continuous, page long attacks directed at a single poster in this thread will result in threadbans for a week from this point; doing so again once you have returned will make the bans permanent and will be escalated to infractions.

This thread still has misinformation rules, and occasionally you will be asked to demonstrate a claim you have made by moderation. If you cannot, you will be offered the opportunity to amend the post to reflect that it's opinion, to remove the post, or you will be threadbanned and infracted for sharing misinformation.

Addendum: from this point, use of any variant of the word 'orc' to describe combatants, politicians or russians in general will be deleted and the poster will receive a warning. If the behaviour continues, it will be escalated. Consider this fair warning.

Finally: If I see the word Nazi or Hitler being flung around, there had better have a good faith basis as to how it's applicable to the Russian invasion - as in, video/photographic evidence of POW camps designed to remove another ethnic group - or to the current Ukrainian army. If this does not occur, you will be threadbanned for posting off topic

This is a sensitive area, and I understand that this makes for fairly incensed conversation sometimes. This does not mean the rules do not apply, whether to a poster positing a Pro-Ukraine stance or a poster positing an alternative view.

Behave, people.

 

[Zidane98]

Surprised the vatniks didn't put on display all the washing machines & toilets they like to liberate from Ukranian properties.

 

[Zidane98]

Been a while since Russia suffered a 1000 casualty event like this one.

 

[wannabejack]

Been a while since Russia suffered a 1000 casualty event like this one.

Happy May day russia!

 

[Visions]

Flashback to the Soviet Union.......



Moscow Marge making an idiot of herself yet again, but has accidentally come up with a brilliant merchandise opportunity for the Ukrainians.

 

[Visions]

Been a while since Russia suffered a 1000 casualty event like this one.

Cluster bombs will do that to a casualty rate.

This Republican thinks that the US should give Ukraine more. Seems like a good idea.

 

[Visions]

Happy May day russia!

Just as a reminder on the friends that Putin's idol Stalin has celebrated May Day in the past with.

 

[Aussie in exile]

Flashback to the Soviet Union.......



Moscow Marge making an idiot of herself yet again, but has accidentally come up with a brilliant merchandise opportunity for the Ukrainians.

Geez She's dumb

 

[Mobbs]

View attachment IMG_9929.mp4

 

[Zidane98]

Geez She's dumb

That looks more like a bus than a plane with those shelves. Bit of turbulence would be interesting with all those eggs stashed up high. Bonza might be able to save itself by leasing a few of these planes in exchange for eggs, washing machines. basic safety components for cars etc etc.


To their credit the vatniks were still able to get the plane in the air though so that's a huge positive for them with spares hard to come by in Russia.

 

[Chief]

Flashback to the Soviet Union.......



Moscow Marge making an idiot of herself yet again, but has accidentally come up with a brilliant merchandise opportunity for the Ukrainians.

Politicians are so awkward when they try to be prop comics.

 

[Nothing]

Cluster bombs will do that to a casualty rate.

This Republican thinks that the US should give Ukraine more. Seems like a good idea.

Can we be sure that the Republican didn't mean bomb Ukraine with them? Or is he not MAGA Republican

 

[wannabejack]

https://www.reuters.com/world/uk/britains-cameron-kyiv-promises-ukraine-aid-as-long-it-takes-2024-05-02/#

Cameron said Ukraine had a right to use the weapons provided by London to strike targets inside Russia, and that it was up to Kyiv whether to do so.

"Ukraine has that right. Just as Russia is striking inside Ukraine, you can quite understand why Ukraine feels the need to make sure it's defending itself," Cameron told Reuters

 

[wannabejack]

Macron's conditions to deploy troops in Ukraine: Russia's breakthrough and Ukraine's request - Euromaidan Press

Macron specifies the deployment conditions for French troops in Ukraine: responding to Russian military breakthroughs and acting on formal requests from the Ukrainian government.

euromaidanpress.com

Now, the Economist notes that once concerned about not “humiliating” Moscow, Emmanuel Macron has since become one of Europe’s most vocal hawks.

“If Russia wins in Ukraine, there will be no security in Europe, who can pretend that Russia will stop there?” France’s President said, asking what security would there be for neighboring countries: Moldova, Romania, Poland, Lithuania, and others?

“If the Russians were to break through the front lines, if there were a Ukrainian request, which is not the case today, we would legitimately have to ask ourselves this question,” Macron said regarding the possibility of sending ground troops [deploying France’s military in Ukraine].

 

[wannabejack]

"It’s time we stop waiting for the Russian people to stop the war

A poll by the independent Russian polling organization Levada Center from February 2023 found that 77% of Russians support the invasion of Ukraine. And yet, somehow, the world believes that the only way to end this war is to help the Russian people overthrow Putin."

 

[Aussie in exile]

Russian economy on verge of free fall. Happy days.

MSN

 

[Chief]

Russian economy on verge of free fall. Happy days.

MSN

There's an economics YouTuber who was adamant that Russia was relatively unaffected by the war.

If I find it again I'll post. Might have been Economics Explained? Can't recall.

 

[Andre]

There's an economics YouTuber who was adamant that Russia was relatively unaffected by the war.

If I find it again I'll post. Might have been Economics Explained? Can't recall.

That Russia didn't collapse immediately or can plaster over many cracks (for now), is too readily taken as they are fine. The Hemingway quote 'How did you go bankrupt? Two ways. Gradually, then suddenly.' applies here. They are going bankrupt, both economically and in terms of equipment able to be pulled out of Soviet stocks, slowly, but once the precipice is reached the collapse will be relatively quick.

 

[barreness]

This is the difference.

I dont think Russia has even got a tiny portion of what they want.

A peace deal now on Russian terms is just a pause, to let them catch their breath.

And I am pretty sure this is the opinion in Ukraine and most of Eastern Europe.

Yeh, we're of different opinions here, agree to disagree

And did you see the plan the Soviets had for the military destruction of Nato.

It involved nuking every non nuclear NATO country before crushing them with it's military.

They believed no nuclear NATO country would risk nuclear war for another country, NATO alliance or not.

The USA is the only country to have nuked civilian centres and the only country with a first strike policy(which still remains). Of course the soviets had plans to counter those genocidal policies

The bolded seems pretty rubbish, source? It was always if you put up a few ICBM's then the other side will throw their lot at you, you couldn't tell where they were headed before it was too late.

I don't think Putin regards NATO countries as protected by NATO, when push comes to shove, so he will push.

It's why we got all the nukes talk. He wants to firmly embed the idea, opposing Putin = risking nuclear war.

On SM-A346E using BigFooty.com mobile app

To some degree he's correct, there is no guarantee of military action as of article 5

He hasn't touched a NATO or EU country to this point so hold your horses. In fact that's kinda the point of this war, Ukraine since 2004 has been flirting with both sides and Putin has decided he's had enough, they are Russian sphere of influence and if they're not he'll take the bits he wants

 

[barreness]

So, do you mean that you see Russian successes on the battlefield as victories for you and your debating points, and defeats for the people that believe in this day and age, we should be past strong men killing hundreds of thousands over territorial ambitions?

No I mean Zidane98 keep taking the L's for his continual horrible takes in both this and the Palestine thread. He is on the right side morally here, but his economic and geopolitical nous is first take propaganda

I'd get used to the strong men thing tbh. The climate/resource/water wars are here and it'll be strong men dictators doing the leadership of nation states. Of course I'd like to see a class awareness spread and the people to fight for their comrades material conditions amongst all the bourgeoisie leadership countries but I'm not holding my breath

 

[barreness]

So you are basically on board the genocide of the remaining Ukrainians in the stolen land.

Which is what will happen, we know that because it is already happening.

Source? Like the bucha massacre, yes. Genocide is a stretch, the annexed territories are largely Russian speaking. You tell me, does a Ukrainian and a Russian look any different?

Not taking away from attacks on civilian infrastructure which do cause death and loss of life quality

 

[jatz14]

Source? Like the bucha massacre, yes. Genocide is a stretch, the annexed territories are largely Russian speaking. You tell me, does a Ukrainian and a Russian look any different?

Not taking away from attacks on civilian infrastructure which do cause death and loss of life quality

Well, if the Ukrainian has been shot, then yes, they do look different.

 

[barreness]

Well, if the Ukrainian has been shot, then yes, they do look different.

I mean yeh. Without the uniforms I think most would struggle to tell them apart.

There's been a crackdown on russian speaking in the Baltic states and it was wiped from the official language record in Ukraine after the Crimea annexation(from memory). Is this 'cultural' genocide?

 

[Smeg Head]

I mean yeh. Without the uniforms I think most would struggle to tell them apart.

There's been a crackdown on russian speaking in the Baltic states and it was wiped from the official language record in Ukraine after the Crimea annexation(from memory). Is this 'cultural' genocide?

No because the russification was forced imperialism, in fact not diminishing it could be considered cultural genocide.

(Look to how some countries now are worried they are losing their own language slowly to english language terms)

 

[barreness]

No because the russification was forced imperialism, in fact not diminishing it could be considered cultural genocide.

(Look to how some countries now are worried they are losing their own language slowly to english language terms)

Yes, now we are getting to an interesting argument.

Is there much difference between forced imperialism and cultural shifts, and should we attempt to rewind it.
In a hypothetical future; Ukraine joins the EU and English is a valuable skill(in the economic way) to university graduates, is this imperialism or economic sense? is there a difference between the two?

 

[Smeg Head]

Hard to argue the other side of English point as a native speaker when it always appears valuable to us a skill since its the defacto trade and scientific language these days.

Languages die when people stop using them for whatever reason. A lot of time that is forced, we have plenty of example of that in Australia, and we see how important it is to the older generation to try pass back on some of that language and culture that is embedded within.

Also Ukraine isn't a monoblock of people so there will always be friction I think trying to have a sole official language.