Europe War in Ukraine - Thread 4 - thread rules updated

[Gethelred]

Hey all,

Seeing as multiple people seem to have forgotten, abuse is against the rules of BF. Continuous, page long attacks directed at a single poster in this thread will result in threadbans for a week from this point; doing so again once you have returned will make the bans permanent and will be escalated to infractions.

This thread still has misinformation rules, and occasionally you will be asked to demonstrate a claim you have made by moderation. If you cannot, you will be offered the opportunity to amend the post to reflect that it's opinion, to remove the post, or you will be threadbanned and infracted for sharing misinformation.

Addendum: from this point, use of any variant of the word 'orc' to describe combatants, politicians or russians in general will be deleted and the poster will receive a warning. If the behaviour continues, it will be escalated. Consider this fair warning.

Finally: If I see the word Nazi or Hitler being flung around, there had better have a good faith basis as to how it's applicable to the Russian invasion - as in, video/photographic evidence of POW camps designed to remove another ethnic group - or to the current Ukrainian army. If this does not occur, you will be threadbanned for posting off topic

This is a sensitive area, and I understand that this makes for fairly incensed conversation sometimes. This does not mean the rules do not apply, whether to a poster positing a Pro-Ukraine stance or a poster positing an alternative view.

Behave, people.

 

[Satan]

Warning

Putin told killers and cannibals to 'atone for their crime on the battlefield'. It didn't end well

Russia's policy of encouraging convicts to bolster its invasion of Ukraine was simple — survive six months and get your freedom. Some returned to the communities they once terrorised, only to commit new crimes.

www.abc.net.au

 

[Cap]

Source? Like the bucha massacre, yes. Genocide is a stretch, the annexed territories are largely Russian speaking. You tell me, does a Ukrainian and a Russian look any different?

wait, so the Bucha massacre is just normal standard behaviour?

You've huffed that Russian propaganda pretty strongly there.

We speak English in Australia are you okay if the UK invades to defend English speaking population ?

Not taking away from attacks on civilian infrastructure which do cause death and loss of life quality

Yes you are.

 

[Cap]

Warning

Putin told killers and cannibals to 'atone for their crime on the battlefield'. It didn't end well

Russia's policy of encouraging convicts to bolster its invasion of Ukraine was simple — survive six months and get your freedom. Some returned to the communities they once terrorised, only to commit new crimes.

www.abc.net.au

The defeat of Russia probably wont be on the battlefield.

It will be a number of issues, hopefully these kinds of things keep festering and finally see Russians get sick of Putin.

 

[wannabejack]

I mean yeh. Without the uniforms I think most would struggle to tell them apart.

There's been a crackdown on russian speaking in the Baltic states and it was wiped from the official language record in Ukraine after the Crimea annexation(from memory). Is this 'cultural' genocide?

So no "cultural genocide". Unlike Russia.
In 2022, the Russian government introduced legislation to legitimize the seizure of items related to Ukrainian cultural heritage. This law permits the inclusion of historical artifacts from occupied regions in the Russian Federation's registry, effectively erasing their Ukrainian provenance.

Russian is not banned in Ukraine! .
In 1989 Ukrainian once again became the country's official language, and its status as the sole official language was confirmed in the 1996 Ukrainian constitution.
In 2012 a law was passed that granted local authorities the power to confer official status upon minority languages. Although Ukrainian was reaffirmed as the country’s official language, regional administrators could elect to conduct official business in the prevailing language of the area.

The Ukrainian language has been "oppressed and marginalized" throughout the Czarist and Soviet eras, Ukrainian finally shed its "second-class status" in 1989 to become the official state language of an independent Ukraine.

Ukraine is, in the main, bilingual, where both Russian (30%) and Ukrainian (68%) are commonly spoken and widely understood across the country. Other languages include Crimean Tatar, Moldovan, Hungarian and Romanian

Russia has been exploiting the language issue. Since the early 2000s, Russian-speaking Ukrainians have been encouraged to think of themselves as an oppressed minority.

Russian speaking Ukrainians have had a prominent role in fighting Putin’s invasion which shows a national identity that goes beyond language and ethnicity. Ukraine elected a Jewish (not a Nazi) Russian speaker Volodymyr Zelenskyy.

 

[Visions]

There's an economics YouTuber who was adamant that Russia was relatively unaffected by the war.

If I find it again I'll post. Might have been Economics Explained? Can't recall.

The thing about the financial figures that come out of the Kremlin is that they are invariably lies just all the other propaganda crap that comes out of there.

Case is point. The biggest company in Russia, Gazprom (also majority state owned) was forecast to have a huge profit. Instead they posted their first loss in 20 years amounting to almost $7 billion USD. If they are struggling, then you can bet that all the other minors are too.

Yet Russia wants the world to believe that revenue is strong.

 

[Visions]

Russian in Belgorod are more at risk from their own army than the Russians. This isn't the first time it has happened either.



This is what happens when you try and force older men into the Russian army because you don't have willing volunteers to be cannon fodder. He did some good work.

 

[Andre]

The thing about the financial figures that come out of the Kremlin is that they are invariably lies just all the other propaganda crap that comes out of there.

Case is point. The biggest company in Russia, Gazprom (also majority state owned) was forecast to have a huge profit. Instead they posted their first loss in 20 years amounting to almost $7 billion USD. If they are struggling, then you can bet that all the other minors are too.

Yet Russia wants the world to believe that revenue is strong.

One of my biggest disappointments with Europe, is how they are still buying Russian gas. Here was a golden chance to simultaneously hurt Russia and address Climate change by pouring billions extra into solar, wind, plus electric cars, even the boring stuff like replacing inefficient windows and insulation in houses and office buildings, yet you don’t hear of multi-billion dollar new programs in response.

 

[Jbudds04v2]

So no "cultural genocide". Unlike Russia.
In 2022, the Russian government introduced legislation to legitimize the seizure of items related to Ukrainian cultural heritage. This law permits the inclusion of historical artifacts from occupied regions in the Russian Federation's registry, effectively erasing their Ukrainian provenance.

Russian is not banned in Ukraine! .
In 1989 Ukrainian once again became the country's official language, and its status as the sole official language was confirmed in the 1996 Ukrainian constitution.
In 2012 a law was passed that granted local authorities the power to confer official status upon minority languages. Although Ukrainian was reaffirmed as the country’s official language, regional administrators could elect to conduct official business in the prevailing language of the area.

The Ukrainian language has been "oppressed and marginalized" throughout the Czarist and Soviet eras, Ukrainian finally shed its "second-class status" in 1989 to become the official state language of an independent Ukraine.

Ukraine is, in the main, bilingual, where both Russian (30%) and Ukrainian (68%) are commonly spoken and widely understood across the country. Other languages include Crimean Tatar, Moldovan, Hungarian and Romanian

Russia has been exploiting the language issue. Since the early 2000s, Russian-speaking Ukrainians have been encouraged to think of themselves as an oppressed minority.

Russian speaking Ukrainians have had a prominent role in fighting Putin’s invasion which shows a national identity that goes beyond language and ethnicity. Ukraine elected a Jewish (not a Nazi) Russian speaker Volodymyr Zelenskyy.

"There are 21 countries which state their official language as Spanish: Spain, Mexico, Costa Rica, El Salvador, Guatemala, Honduras, Nicaragua, Panama, Cuba, Dominican Republic, Puerto Rico, Argentina, Bolivia, Chile, Colombia, Ecuador, Paraguay, Peru, Uruguay, Venezuela, and Equatorial Guinea."

I guess they are all part of a Spanish Federation?

 

[Jbudds04v2]

One of my biggest disappointments with Europe, is how they are still buying Russian gas. Here was a golden chance to simultaneously hurt Russia and address Climate change by pouring billions extra into solar, wind, plus electric cars, even the boring stuff like replacing inefficient windows and insulation in houses and office buildings, yet you don’t hear of multi-billion dollar new programs in response.

I don't think they are buying much at all now. Mainly China and India now.

 

[Chief]

The thing about the financial figures that come out of the Kremlin is that they are invariably lies just all the other propaganda crap that comes out of there.

I can't recall where the figures came from.

Same channel - I think I recall - has had a bit of a whinge about public transport being a waste of resources.

 

[Visions]

I wonder where all the tanks went........

 

[barreness]

wait, so the Bucha massacre is just normal standard behaviour?

Nah, it was a war crime

You've huffed that Russian propaganda pretty strongly there.

We speak English in Australia are you okay if the UK invades to defend English speaking population ?

It'd be closer to the UK's action in northern Ireland. Justified? probably not, Colonised? yes

Yes you are.

ok

 

[barreness]

So no "cultural genocide". Unlike Russia.
In 2022, the Russian government introduced legislation to legitimize the seizure of items related to Ukrainian cultural heritage. This law permits the inclusion of historical artifacts from occupied regions in the Russian Federation's registry, effectively erasing their Ukrainian provenance.

Russian is not banned in Ukraine! .
In 1989 Ukrainian once again became the country's official language, and its status as the sole official language was confirmed in the 1996 Ukrainian constitution.
In 2012 a law was passed that granted local authorities the power to confer official status upon minority languages. Although Ukrainian was reaffirmed as the country’s official language, regional administrators could elect to conduct official business in the prevailing language of the area.

The Ukrainian language has been "oppressed and marginalized" throughout the Czarist and Soviet eras, Ukrainian finally shed its "second-class status" in 1989 to become the official state language of an independent Ukraine.

Ukraine is, in the main, bilingual, where both Russian (30%) and Ukrainian (68%) are commonly spoken and widely understood across the country. Other languages include Crimean Tatar, Moldovan, Hungarian and Romanian

Russia has been exploiting the language issue. Since the early 2000s, Russian-speaking Ukrainians have been encouraged to think of themselves as an oppressed minority.

Russian speaking Ukrainians have had a prominent role in fighting Putin’s invasion which shows a national identity that goes beyond language and ethnicity. Ukraine elected a Jewish (not a Nazi) Russian speaker Volodymyr Zelenskyy.

Ok, but yeh this is pre invasion

Ukraine's parliament approved a law on Thursday that grants special status to the Ukrainian language and makes it mandatory for public sector workers

The law, which obliges all citizens to know the Ukrainian language and makes it a mandatory requirement for civil servants, soldiers, doctors, and teachers, was championed by outgoing President Petro Poroshenko.

He is expected to sign it into law before he leaves office in coming weeks after losing re-election on Sunday to Volodymyr Zelenskiy, an actor who mainly speaks Russian in public.

https://www.reuters.com/article/idUSKCN1S110Y/

But the most significant changes, anchored in new laws, are the pending elimination of the Russian language from standard school curricula and the establishment of Latvian as the only language in which to impart education. The use of Russian in airports, train stations, and several commercial establishments has also been prohibited.

https://foreignpolicy.com/2023/03/21/latvia-is-going-on-offense-against-russian-culture/

 

[barreness]

One of my biggest disappointments with Europe, is how they are still buying Russian gas. Here was a golden chance to simultaneously hurt Russia and address Climate change by pouring billions extra into solar, wind, plus electric cars, even the boring stuff like replacing inefficient windows and insulation in houses and office buildings, yet you don’t hear of multi-billion dollar new programs in response.

And destroy their already febrile manufacturing sector? it's a death sentence to swear off fossil fuels permanently and that's why humanity is cooked

 

[barreness]

The thing about the financial figures that come out of the Kremlin is that they are invariably lies just all the other propaganda crap that comes out of there.

Case is point. The biggest company in Russia, Gazprom (also majority state owned) was forecast to have a huge profit. Instead they posted their first loss in 20 years amounting to almost $7 billion USD. If they are struggling, then you can bet that all the other minors are too.

Yet Russia wants the world to believe that revenue is strong.

Pick one. Can't only count the loses if you rate the figures

 

[Cap]

Nah, it was a war crime

That must hurt.

It'd be closer to the UK's action in northern Ireland. Justified? probably not, Colonised? yes

England in Ireland was all about a land grab.

Englands treatment of the Irish was horrendous.

They were like the guys you are defending are doing, daily, except its now 2024.

ok

do you remeber when you started believing the propaganda of a genocidal maniac?

Be a good lesson for the rest of us.

 

[Cap]

Pick one. Can't only count the loses if you rate the figures

The Kremlin is the Govt, Gazprom is a company with foreign investors.

 

[Cap]

One of my biggest disappointments with Europe, is how they are still buying Russian gas. Here was a golden chance to simultaneously hurt Russia and address Climate change by pouring billions extra into solar, wind, plus electric cars, even the boring stuff like replacing inefficient windows and insulation in houses and office buildings, yet you don’t hear of multi-billion dollar new programs in response.

Renewables cover more than half of Germany’s electricity demand for first time in 2023

Germany has generated more than half of the electricity it used this year with renewable energy for the first time, new data shows.

www.google.com

Countries that can are. Dont be fooled by FB boomers telling you other wise

 

[barreness]

That must hurt.

lol, you're better than Zidane98, be better

England in Ireland was all about a land grab.

Yep

Englands treatment of the Irish was horrendous.

They were like the guys you are defending are doing, daily, except its now 2024.

I'd be on the side of negotiating a peace, are you saying the good Friday accords were a mistake?

do you remeber when you started believing the propaganda of a genocidal maniac?

Be a good lesson for the rest of us.

Mate you're eating up western prop and calling it truth. Russia is obvs in the moral wrong here, they invaded a bloody country. Geopolitics doesn't work on a moral level, get with it

 

[Cap]

Another Crimea boat, albeit not a battleship.

Russia coming up on 500k losses.

 

[barreness]

The Kremlin is the Govt, Gazprom is a company with foreign investors.

majority state owned*

 

[Cap]

lol, you're better than Zidane98, be better

I think if we are trying to he better, defending a genocidal maniac should be on the table.

Yep

I'd be on the side of negotiating a peace, are you saying the good Friday accords were a mistake?

the Friday accords are largely a result of long term occupation by england.

Exactly what Russia is trying to do.

Mate you're eating up western prop and calling it truth. Russia is obvs in the moral wrong here, they invaded a bloody country. Geopolitics doesn't work on a moral level, get with it

lol.

Yes im sure all the residental buildings bombed by Russia that are freely available on the internet are fake propaganda.

your lack of a moral stance is your own problem.

 

[Cap]

majority state owned*

Its still a company that discloses income to external parties

Its not reporting a loss if it doesn't have to. It more thsn likely made a loss. If that is at all important is the real question.

 

[barreness]

I think if we are trying to he better, defending a genocidal maniac should be on the table.

He's an imperialist maniac, can't just be throwing around terms

the Friday accords are largely a result of long term occupation by england.

Exactly what Russia is trying to do.

True
So what do we do with the Russian speaking pop in the area currently occupied?

lol.

Yes im sure all the residental buildings bombed by Russia that are freely available on the internet are fake propaganda.

your lack of a moral stance is your own problem.

You'll note I raised the attacks on civilian infrastructure as causing death and destruction before

 

[Aussie in exile]

Russia is in a fragile financial state. Happy days.

MSN