Europe War in Ukraine - Thread 4 - thread rules updated

[Gethelred]

Hey all,

Seeing as multiple people seem to have forgotten, abuse is against the rules of BF. Continuous, page long attacks directed at a single poster in this thread will result in threadbans for a week from this point; doing so again once you have returned will make the bans permanent and will be escalated to infractions.

This thread still has misinformation rules, and occasionally you will be asked to demonstrate a claim you have made by moderation. If you cannot, you will be offered the opportunity to amend the post to reflect that it's opinion, to remove the post, or you will be threadbanned and infracted for sharing misinformation.

Addendum: from this point, use of any variant of the word 'orc' to describe combatants, politicians or russians in general will be deleted and the poster will receive a warning. If the behaviour continues, it will be escalated. Consider this fair warning.

Finally: If I see the word Nazi or Hitler being flung around, there had better have a good faith basis as to how it's applicable to the Russian invasion - as in, video/photographic evidence of POW camps designed to remove another ethnic group - or to the current Ukrainian army. If this does not occur, you will be threadbanned for posting off topic

This is a sensitive area, and I understand that this makes for fairly incensed conversation sometimes. This does not mean the rules do not apply, whether to a poster positing a Pro-Ukraine stance or a poster positing an alternative view.

Behave, people.

 

[barreness]

So if russia have a “concerted campaign to bombard Ukrainian civilians”, by your reckoning it would be OK for Ukraine to have a concerted campaign to bombard russian civilians? “Not like this is a new action”.

Bolded was referring to coups, only the US can do them apparently

I mean yes, vengeance has an unfortunately strong role in military strategy, they were shelling Belgorad when they had the chance

Hey, wait a minute russia do have a “concerted campaign to bombard Ukrainian civilians” (hence the war crimes) but Ukraine hasn’t.

They definitely would if they had the ammo to spare and or US approval for missile strikes, more likely targeting civilian infrastructure than direct kills for both sides

 

[barreness]

The cognitive dissonance here is pretty obvious.

Stalin and the Nazis were allies and would continue to have done so if Hitler didn't double cross him. Nazis were once welcomed for military parades in Russia.

Dude, the cold war ended 33 years ago, it's ok you can stop and apply some scrutiny. They never fought an engagement together(even Poland, they invaded after to secure defensive depth), an uneasy short lived non aggression pact is not an alliance. Options were few after France and England denied forming an anti Hitler alliance

Nazi view on Slavs;
The Nazis considered the putative "Aryan race" a superior "master race", and they considered Jews, mixed-race people, Slavs (specifically groups such as Poles or Russians), Romani, Africans, and certain other ethnicities racially inferior "sub-humans", whose members were only suitable for slave labor and extermination.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazi_racial_theories

Nazi views on Communism;
In Hitler's mind, communism was a major enemy of Germany, an enemy he often mentions in Mein Kampf. During the trial for his involvement in the Beer Hall Putsch, Hitler claimed that his singular goal was to assist the German government in "fighting Marxism".[138] Marxism, Bolshevism, and communism were interchangeable terms for Hitler as evidenced by their use in Mein Kampf:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_views_of_Adolf_Hitler#Anti-communism

Putin to this day glorifies Stalin.

I mean yeh, you would too if he had saved most of your people from extermination

You attempt to rewrite history by portraying Stalin's actions as appeasement. It's just not reality, no other state that tried to appease Hitler agreed to divide up Europe into spheres of influence.

No other state had the ability, and it was eastern Europe, ie the Russian empire from 20 years previous

I wonder how hard you are on the Finnish for actually forming an alliance and fighting together? I'm fine with it because they had grievances from the winter war and were obviously not nearly as murderous as the Nazis

You just don't have a grasp on history

 

[Visions]

http://[URL='https://www.reuters.co...ontlines-sources-say-2024-05-24/[/URL[/COLOR]

]

Looks like a certain leader is finally feeling the pressure.

Give Ukraine what it needs to finish this guy off

Quite coincidentally it comes at the time there is a lot of rumblings and pressure being put on the Biden administration to allow bombing of terrorist targets inside Russia with foreign weapons.

Everyone (Russian puppets and trolls excluded) knows Putin isn't interested in a ceasefire, he would use any time to regroup and go harder in due course.

 

[Cap]

Quite coincidentally it comes at the time there is a lot of rumblings and pressure being put on the Biden administration to allow bombing of terrorist targets inside Russia with foreign weapons.

Everyone (Russian puppets and trolls excluded) knows Putin isn't interested in a ceasefire, he would use any time to regroup and go harder in due course.

And the upcoming Peace Summit.

i also notice Orban is suddenly back taking about the war so Russia must be pushing hard on its supporter base.

Its going to be interesting when MAGA start to tow the misinformation line.

 

[Jamolad]

Every time I hear Mein Kampf I think of that French Christmas video that I think turns out was staged but makes me lol anyway

 

[CD Xbow]

Ukraine has nailed the Armavir Radar Station in Russia's southwestern Krasnodar Krai. This is an UHF radar which is part of their missile defence system. Despite suggestions it's an OTH radar I think this is wrong. It's structure is nothing like our JORN OTH radar, which is a network made up of hundreds of vertical ionosondes.

Strike On Russian Strategic Early Warning Radar Site Is A Big Deal

Russia losing a strategic early warning radar system is a new twist in the Ukraine conflict that could have further reaching ramifications.

www.twz.com

 

[Chadwiko]

View attachment 1999787

Ukraine has nailed the Armavir Radar Station in Russia's southwestern Krasnodar Krai. This is an UHF radar which is part of their missile defence system. Despite suggestions it's an OTH radar I think this is wrong. It's structure is nothing like our JORN OTH radar, which is a network made up of hundreds of vertical ionosondes.

Strike On Russian Strategic Early Warning Radar Site Is A Big Deal

Russia losing a strategic early warning radar system is a new twist in the Ukraine conflict that could have further reaching ramifications.

www.twz.com

Agree that is almost defintely not an OTH system.

Source; me who used to work for BAE Systems.

 

[CD Xbow]

Agree that is almost defintely not an OTH system.

Source; me who used to work for BAE Systems.

Thanks for confirming.

 

[Ballarat Bob]

Not sure if emptying the prisons is just a way of providing meat for the grinder and saving costs. Gives Putin a chance to fill them up with the army purges going on now. A lot of top brass are getting caught up in this. Putin might be getting worried a coup was being planned.

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

I know you write that kind of tongue-in-cheek, but I doubt if it's actually too far from the truth.

It’s a perfect opportunity to get rid of undesirables

 

[Mobbs]

Appreciated how this channel laid it all out in a timeline.

 

[Cap]

I still find it incredible how much a country of 110m is willing to waste in their genocidal pursuit

 

[Visions]

And the upcoming Peace Summit.

i also notice Orban is suddenly back taking about the war so Russia must be pushing hard on its supporter base.

Its going to be interesting when MAGA start to tow the misinformation line.

Orban continues his anti Ukraine stance within NATO.

Now he basically wants all the privileges of having NATO membership but none of the responsibility.

Rather than just opting out of this operation, maybe the turd should opt out of NATO fully and join the CSTO.

Hungary will seek to opt out of NATO efforts to support Ukraine

 

[wannabejack]

McCaul taught a masterclass in the House on May 22, pointing out on a map just what a betrayal it was to forbid Ukraine to use US weapons to strike targets in Russia.

 

[Visions]

McCaul taught a masterclass in the House on May 22, pointing out on a map just what a betrayal it was to forbid Ukraine to use US weapons to strike targets in Russia.

If the bomb attack that happened last night on that market in Kharkiv happened on a US city, then the US would be bombing Russia senseless with its own weapons. Yet they won't allow Ukraine to do the same.

Biden administration is gutless.

 

[Zidane98]

Vatnik S400 shoots its load prematurely than is blown to smithereens by Ukraine ATACMS

 

[Cap]

 

[Aussie in exile]

No I don't, unfortunately our opinion doesn't matter

How do you not get this? Illegality doesn't matter in invasions and never has. See the amount of countries that the US have bombed in their time as global hegemon, or Britain before when they were etc etc

In this case we are talking about your beloved Russia and the fact is Russia's invasion of Ukraine is illegal.

 

[MrKK]

In this case we are talking about your beloved Russia and the fact is Russia's invasion of Ukraine is illegal.

When is any invasion legal?

 

[Aussie in exile]

When is any invasion legal?

Its not.

 

[Aussie in exile]

Putin will only want a ceasefire when he can't make any more progress in Ukraine, and is losing ground that the Russians forces have gained.

 

[barreness]

Zelensky signed a degree in 2022(oct from memory) that made it essentially illegal for him to negotiate with Russia(Putin more specifically) after the Istanbul talks fell apart, with promises from nato armament leading this you would think

Now that Zelensky's term is officially over and Vlad doesn't look like being overthrown you'd think the way foward is a shake up in Ukraine and negotiations being reconvened
https://www.reuters.com/world/europ...re-current-frontlines-sources-say-2024-05-24/
Of course unnamed sources but sounds like good news for once

 

[barreness]

If the bomb attack that happened last night on that market in Kharkiv happened on a US city, then the US would be bombing Russia senseless with its own weapons. Yet they won't allow Ukraine to do the same.

Biden administration is gutless.

Yes but they're not attacking the US

I think this is an interesting thing in next gen warfare. When does it become the country that built/sent it compared to the one that pulled the trigger who is responsible.
Small arms it pretty obviously goes on the user. Tanks, planes it becomes a little different but the crew/pilot is still the highly trained trigger puller. Precision guided missiles with a simple user interface and disproportion damage at the other end it does become a little different.

They've put the block on so they don't trigger a nuclear escalation, it's pretty simple

 

[Visions]

Yes but they're not attacking the US

I think this is an interesting thing in next gen warfare. When does it become the country that built/sent it compared to the one that pulled the trigger who is responsible.
Small arms it pretty obviously goes on the user. Tanks, planes it becomes a little different but the crew/pilot is still the highly trained trigger puller. Precision guided missiles with a simple user interface and disproportion damage at the other end it does become a little different.

They've put the block on so they don't trigger a nuclear escalation, it's pretty simple

The Kremlin has already said that Russia and NATO are in direct confrontation yet no nuclear war is happening.

Also Ukraine is already bombing Putin's proclaimed Russian land in Donetsk, Luhansk, Crimea, etc with US weapons and he hasn't hit the red button yet.....

Here's a spoiler. He wont either if Ukraine bombed Russia proper with US weapons just inside the Russian border and on airfields.

 

[Zidane98]

Ukraine biolab birds confirmed!