WBD 2015 Pre-Season

[fargy]

This is spot on. Nearly every team has at least one A Grader or more. Brisbane now has at least two A Graders (Beams and Rockliff), GWS has also picked one up. We've lost our two A graders in Griffen and Libba. On exposed form (and when they've been a able to get a game in a bottom four side), its being generous to call our midfield B Grade (especially if you call Redden, Zorko, Christianson, Rich, etc B Graders). GWS and Brisbane should go past us this year, leaving Carlton, Melbourne and the Saints with us.

While I think and hope Wallis can kick on this year he still hadn't cemented his place last year and never took over a game. Wallis is also limited in pace and disposal.

Bonti could be anything but isn't yet.

I don't see the excitement on Hrovat who hadn't cemented his place, and when not injured (which is not often) looks undersized and average in pace and disposal.

Crameri has been tried in the midfield last year and didn't get enough of it and displayed ordinary vision and disposal at times.

Moyd has been flagged as backman pre Libba, but realistically is on his last legs with his speed being dodgy, and we know his disposal issues.

Dahl struggled in the midfield last year and has ordinary disposal.

Jong's disposal remains poor.

Macrae is nearly A Grade but is going to have the living shit belted out of him this year with taggers and run with players - a massive ask for a young player.

Our midfield is in for a very, very tough year. If Stringer can play a few minutes there without compromising his forward work then he should because his class and explosiveness could be the difference in some matches.

Ok you've managed to outline every weakness of all these players, do they have any positives? Maybe players developing might mean some improvement? I'm not saying we have an A grade midfield, just that things aren't as black and white as people make out.

 

[BRWB]

Ok you've managed to outline every weakness of all these players, do they have any positives? Maybe players developing might mean some improvement? I'm not saying we have an A grade midfield, just that things aren't as black and white as people make out.

Sorry mate yeah all players mentioned have strengths, just saying that really good players don't have massive glaring weaknesses and have proved themselves at the elite level.

At present our midfield is no better than C Grade (with A graders being elite, B graders very good, C Grade just average). Just read the intra club report, and someone commented how much an aging Bob Murphy stands out. Doesn't that tell you far off many of our players are at present?

 

[fargy]

Sorry mate yeah all players mentioned have strengths, just saying that really good players don't have massive glaring weaknesses and have proved themselves at the elite level.

At present our midfield is no better than C Grade (with A graders being elite, B graders very good, C Grade just average). Just read the intra club report, and someone commented how much an aging Bob Murphy stands out. Doesn't that tell you far off many of our players are at present?

I agree there is a long way to go (disagree that Dahl was poor in midfield but agree on his disposal, and think Hrovat is better than you think but that's just personal opinion), but one thing that this year will hopefully do is fast track some development.
There are some really good players who didn't start out that well like Ablett and Watson, Fyfe has a long way to go with his disposal etc. So it is possible, but not sure apart from the obvious that could move into that 'elite' level. I think the big thing this year that I'll be looking for is a number of our players moving up into that B B+ category, so when our players like Macrae, Bonts, Stringer, Libba (when back), and Boyd fully develop into what we hope as A graders, we have a great level of depth within the team.

 

[BRWB]

I agree there is a long way to go (disagree that Dahl was poor in midfield but agree on his disposal, and think Hrovat is better than you think but that's just personal opinion), but one thing that this year will hopefully do is fast track some development.
There are some really good players who didn't start out that well like Ablett and Watson, Fyfe has a long way to go with his disposal etc. So it is possible, but not sure apart from the obvious that could move into that 'elite' level. I think the big thing this year that I'll be looking for is a number of our players moving up into that B B+ category, so when our players like Macrae, Bonts, Stringer, Libba (when back), and Boyd fully develop into what we hope as A graders, we have a great level of depth within the team.

Yep if they can stay fit our top 5 players could be equal to or better than any in the league (as you rightly identify Bont, Macrae, Libba, Stringer, T Boyd). But for various reasons mostly age (injury for Libba) they are unlikely to do it this year.

As you say its how the rest develop will determine our success.

Can Talia learn to beat his man? Can Hamling put on size? Can Roberts get fitter, stronger and faster? In short can they become solid B Graders?

Can the likes of Hunter, Wallis, Jong, Hrovat, Honey, Prudden, Darley, Biggs, JJ, C Smith, etc step up to be solid B graders?

Answer is I don't know but hope they can....its only hope though. But this season we will find out more.

 

[immortalmike]

He's been in the system a while and I thought that J Grant had him covered for endurance?

Not true. Stringer has improved from dead last to middle of the pack in twoish preseasons. Grant still lags far behind in most running drills.

 

[VitalDread]

Roberts has suffered some groin tightness recently so hence why he didn't play yesterday according to the afl

 

[Bemoreboyddog]

Out

Yep if they can stay fit our top 5 players could be equal to or better than any in the league (as you rightly identify Bont, Macrae, Libba, Stringer, T Boyd). But for various reasons mostly age (injury for Libba) they are unlikely to do it this year.

As you say its how the rest develop will determine our success.

Can Talia learn to beat his man? Can Hamling put on size? Can Roberts get fitter, stronger and faster? In short can they become solid B Graders?

Can the likes of Hunter, Wallis, Jong, Hrovat, Honey, Prudden, Darley, Biggs, JJ, C Smith, etc step up to be solid B graders?

Answer is I don't know but hope they can....its only hope though. But this season we will find out more.

Of the guys you've mentioned, I've got the most faith in Talia, Hunter, Wallis, Hrovat, Darley and Smith.

Outside those guys, I'm not sure about the rest. Maybe it's a case of a few being good enough to make it, but a few might be too similar in strengths and weaknesses so we may have to trade a few out to bring in some different qualities.

 

[Some Idiot]

Sorry mate yeah all players mentioned have strengths, just saying that really good players don't have massive glaring weaknesses and have proved themselves at the elite level.

At present our midfield is no better than C Grade (with A graders being elite, B graders very good, C Grade just average). Just read the intra club report, and someone commented how much an aging Bob Murphy stands out. Doesn't that tell you far off many of our players are at present?

Bob always stands out because of his unique silky style.

 

[Super Hans]

I think where Stringer plays depends on who we are playing. Would love to see him in the middle against a team like Fremantle, but up forward against Norf, just for matchups.

When we play Fremantle I want him on Mundy the whole game. Not tagging, just playing on him.

 

[VogonProsthetnic]

I agree. There is one former AA (Moyd) who is still pretty good but probably not A grade. Macrae is getting close. Bonti has had about a dozen good games in one season so way too early to say he's there yet. Dahlhaus is a solid B at this stage. Wallis shows some promise but has seldom dominated a match. Ditto Hrovat (further behind Wallis). Crameri is a solid B or B+ but has not proven anything in midfield yet. Apart from Boyd and Crameri they are all very young. Very few of them have had a BoG game at AFL level. Matt Boyd for sure and maybe Dahlhaus and Macrae. An A-grade midfield should have lots of players who have shown BoG form at some stage.

Now compare that list of midfielders to the Brisbane list posted the other day (and Brisbane isn't even a top 8 side). Most of theirs are 22-25yo IIRC.

Prepare for some pain in the midfield this year.

Yeah fair enough we have lost all our midfield experience but it's all about how the parts of the team operate not the reputations of the individuals. Port 2 years ago had no A graders but now have the best midfield out there. They are all coached so wel that everybody knows where to go and what to do.

 

[TempletonTheRat]

Our midfield is

Potentially A Grade

Currently on exposed form C Grade now we have lost Libba

If we can produce close to B grade output this year then I will be very happy; I have faith Bev & the Bont will help us get there.

 

[Royale]

We need more experience. If not Moyd then at least upgrade Goodes. I know he has his detractors but I think he can help us in the guts. There will be plenty of spots to fast track the kids anyway and if we're looking at Jongs form during the vfl finals then we should be looking at Goodes too.

 

[womble54]

When was the last time a players shoulder popped out in a ruck contest??? The whole "it's far more dangerous playing in the ruck" thing is a myth.

Ok. Poorly phrased - wasn't meant to be literal re shoulders popping around willynilly although I accept it reads that way.

I'm right behind the drink. I was right behind Macca as well. Happy with nearly everything I see going on at the club - particularly seeing a predominately happy playing group again. Culture beats strategy for breakfast. I'm a firm believer. I think we are already seeing players like Talia responding to a positive regime.

Having said that: I reserve the right to question why he wants to put our Golden Slipper chance into the Mongol Derby. I don't get it, I don't like it. The kid was taken to play forward. I say play him forward or play him back if we want to develop him. I do believe we increase the risk of injury by playing him in the ruck and I don't believe the risk/reward is equitable.

 

[Roscoe_au]

Ok. Poorly phrased - wasn't meant to be literal re shoulders popping around willynilly although I accept it reads that way.

I'm right behind the drink. I was right behind Macca as well. Happy with nearly everything I see going on at the club - particularly seeing a predominately happy playing group again. Culture beats strategy for breakfast. I'm a firm believer. I think we are already seeing players like Talia responding to a positive regime.

Having said that: I reserve the right to question why he wants to put our Golden Slipper chance into the Mongol Derby. I don't get it, I don't like it. The kid was taken to play forward. I say play him forward or play him back if we want to develop him. I do believe we increase the risk of injury by playing him in the ruck and I don't believe the risk/reward is equitable.

Think Bevo is dead keen to develop players so they're flexible and can be moved out of position. I don't mind moving Toyd onto the ball. He's still lacking match conditioning and he has pretty good vision and moves well. Rather than let the kid stagnate in the goal square (might be starved for opportunities if our midfield can't get it down there) get him up to impact a contest and take a grab.

 

[TempleKelvington]

Ok. Poorly phrased - wasn't meant to be literal re shoulders popping around willynilly although I accept it reads that way.

I'm right behind the drink. I was right behind Macca as well. Happy with nearly everything I see going on at the club - particularly seeing a predominately happy playing group again. Culture beats strategy for breakfast. I'm a firm believer. I think we are already seeing players like Talia responding to a positive regime.

Having said that: I reserve the right to question why he wants to put our Golden Slipper chance into the Mongol Derby. I don't get it, I don't like it. The kid was taken to play forward. I say play him forward or play him back if we want to develop him. I do believe we increase the risk of injury by playing him in the ruck and I don't believe the risk/reward is equitable.

They are trying to get him fitter too.

 

[Libba39]

I think where Stringer plays depends on who we are playing. Would love to see him in the middle against a team like Fremantle, but up forward against Norf, just for matchups.

When we play Fremantle I want him on Mundy the whole game. Not tagging, just playing on him.

I think you're very mistaken if you think Stringer is capable of running with a seasoned 190cm mid like Mundy.

 

[House_of_Dahl]

We need more experience. If not Moyd then at least upgrade Goodes. I know he has his detractors but I think he can help us in the guts. There will be plenty of spots to fast track the kids anyway and if we're looking at Jongs form during the vfl finals then we should be looking at Goodes too.

Dunno I am torn between thinking the same to thinking why bother when they only have another year or two and we are not in a position for finals anyway, may as well just fast track the kids. Get the feeling Bevo is leaning towards the later but who knows.

 

[Roscoe_au]

Dunno I am torn between thinking the same to thinking why bother when they only have another year or two and we are not in a position for finals anyway, may as well just fast track the kids. Get the feeling Bevo is leaning towards the later but who knows.

Think Bevo wants to fast track the kids to see who will and who won't make it. He will want to put his stamp on the squad sooner rather than later and will be keen to get the personnel in he think he needs.

 

[JJHunter]

We have some definite starters in the guts and some guys with the tank to rotate through.

Moyd, Wallis, Hrovat, Bonti, Macrae, Jong, Crameri, Hunter, Dahlhaus and Picken all have pretty good tanks. We might be missing some speed in there, but it's certainly not a b-grade midfield.

Could even throw in JJ and Grant.

Sorry but it's a b or c grade midfield in 2015. If it's not b grade midfield then you consider it A grade. When you could quickly name 6 or 7 sides with a better midfield u cannot rate it a grade

 

[Optimistic Dog]

Wishful thinking but what would our mid field be like in 2016 with Griffen, Ward, Libba, Macrae and Bonts 5 A graders with lots of B graders as support

 

[VitalDread]

Wishful thinking but what would our mid field be like in 2016 with Griffen, Ward, Libba, Macrae and Bonts 5 A graders with lots of B graders as support

Sadly if we had Ward, Griff and Libba in the midfield we wouldn't have Macrae, Stringer or Bonti

 

[Dogsman16]

Sadly if we had Ward, Griff and Libba in the midfield we wouldn't have Macrae, Stringer or Bonti

We wouldn't have Macrae, possibly not Bonts but we would still have Stringer. Stringer wouldn't have gone before pick 15 (where the cats wanted to get him) so we would still have him.

My guess is that because we have Ward we would have finished couple of spots higher allowing us either Freeman/McCarthy/Lennon

My guess is that if we had kept Ward a couple of dominos wouldn't have fallen. Think this the probable side we would have had, had he not left (fun to speculate on).

2016 side

Wood, Roughead, Morris
Murphy, Lonergan, JJ
Freeman, Ward (c), Griffen
Dahlhaus, Redpath, Dickson
Campbell, Stringer, Hrovat
Minson, Liberatore, Moyd

Calling into consideration as well, does Higgins and Cooney leave if we were contending for finals like this side would have been, probably not. Higgins might have but Cooney certainly wouldn't have.

Int: Cooney, Picken, + take your pick of Wallis/Stevens/Jong/Hunter etc.

Coach: Brendan McCartney

Better off in the short term, but probably doesn't get us to where we want in 2 - 5 years time.

 

[VitalDread]

 

[Bulldog1954]

Sorry but it's a b or c grade midfield in 2015. If it's not b grade midfield then you consider it A grade. When you could quickly name 6 or 7 sides with a better midfield u cannot rate it a grade

At best - in 2015 I would argue as it stands we have the worst midfield in the competition (with Melbourne). It potentially is a great midfield, but not in 2015

 

[BRWB]

At best - in 2015 I would argue as it stands we have the worst midfield in the competition (with Melbourne). It potentially is a great midfield, but not in 2015

Yeah the Saints might be in that mix as well, pretty much bottom 3 on exposed form you'd think. Even Carlton with Gibbs, Judd and Murphy have some seasoned class (but no depth)...