Red Black and Blue
Brownlow Medallist
Brilliant reasoning. We are about to benefit from it this year with the two Daveys who fill dire needs for us. I’m advocating for us to not get them. Brilliant.
Opinion What if Brisbane win the premiership AND get the number one draft pick this year?
- Thread starter GC2015
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Nah, nice to see a non-VIC club getting some benefits from it.
I hope a Tasmanian team is allowed to have 200+ gamers from the TSL/TFL as father/son too.
I hope a Tasmanian team is allowed to have 200+ gamers from the TSL/TFL as father/son too.
Bucking Beads
Brownlow Medallist
such a crazy line of thinking. The Father/son rule is one of the special parts of the game.
rye
⠀
- Apr 24, 2022
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father sun maybe
academies are necessary for non-football state clubs to have anything close to parity with the advantages big clubs get that you acknowledge in your post
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Tasmania will get an academy and thus first access to all good tassie kids.
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What does it say about the coaching at the junior footy grass roots level that sons of ex-players are always so prominent in the early rounds of the AFL draft?
TENS OF THOUSANDS of kids sign up for Auskick and junior footy every year, but only 70 or so kids make it onto an AFL list. Of those 70, there are always 6 or 7 kids whose dads played AFL footy. Obviously genetics plays a part in producing good athletes. But it goes beyond that, in my opinion. These kids have the benefit of being coached the right way by their dads from a very early age.
2021
Pick 2 ... Sam Darcy (WB)............ son of Luke Darcy
Pick 4 ... Nick Daicos (Coll)........... son of Peter Daicos
Pick 11.. Nasiah Wanganeen-Milera, stepson of Terry Milera (St Kilda)
Pick 59... Jackson Archer (NM)....... son of Glenn Archer
Pick 60... Jase Burgoyne (Port)....... son of Peter Burgoyne
Pick 65... Taj Woewodin (Melb)....... son of Shane Woewodin
2020
Pick 7 ... Elijah Hollands (Gold)...... son of Ben Hollands (Richmond)
Pick 8 ... Nik Cox (Ess)................. son of Darryl Cox (Fitzroy, Melbourne)
Pick 51.. Maurice Rioli jr (Rich)...... son of Maurice Rioli
2019
Pick 2 ... Noah Anderson (Gold)..... son of Dean Anderson (Hawthorn)
Pick 18... Mitch Georgiades (Port).. son of John Georgiades (Footscray)
Pick 25... Jackson Mead (Port)....... son of Darren Mead
Pick 29... Finn Maginness (Haw).... son of Scott Maginness
Pick 46... Hugo Ralphsmith (Rich).. son of Sean Ralphsmith (Hawthorn)
2018
Pick 10... Nick Blakey (Syd).......... son of John Blakey (Fitzroy, North)
Pick 26... Rhylee West (WB)......... son of Scott West
Pick 29... Will Kelly (Coll)............. son of Craig Kelly
Pick 49... Bailey Scott (NM).......... son of Robert Scott
Pick 69... Joel Crocker (NM).......... son of Darren Crocker
Pick 70... Ben Silvagni (Carl)......... son of Steve Silvagni
Pick 74... Oscar Brownless (Geel)... son of Billy Brownless
2017
Pick 2 ... Andrew Brayshaw (Freo)... son of Mark Brayshaw (Claremont, North Melb)
Pick 29... Charlie Spargo (Melb)...... son of Paul Spargo (North Melb)
Pick 34... Patrick Naish (Rich)......... son of Chris Naish
Pick 50... Tyler Brown (Coll)........... son of Gavin Brown
Pick 68... Hamish Brayshaw (WCE).. son of Mark Brayshaw (Claremont, North Melb)
Rookie... Brody Mihocek (Coll)......... son of Jack Mihocek (Essendon)
Rookie... Jackson Edwards (Adel)..... son of Tyson Edwards
Pick 17... Liam Ryan (WCE) --> father Darren Ryan played 2 games for Claremont in 1997
Pick 46... Ben Paton (St K) --> father Steve Paton played 190 games for North Albury and captained the club for six seasons
2016
Pick 35... Callum Brown (Coll).......... son of Gavin Brown
Pick 52... Willie Rioli jr (WCE)........... son of Willie Rioli (Hawthorn)
Pick 57... Josh Daicos (Coll)............. son of Peter Daicos
Pick 77... Jake Waterman (WCE)....... son of Chris Waterman
Pick 25... Ben Long (St K) --> father Chris Long (Michael's brother) played in 4 premierships for St Mary's (NTFL)
Pick 53... Jack Graham (Rich) --> father Jeff Graham played 77 games for Woodville-West Torrens in the SANFL
TENS OF THOUSANDS of kids sign up for Auskick and junior footy every year, but only 70 or so kids make it onto an AFL list. Of those 70, there are always 6 or 7 kids whose dads played AFL footy. Obviously genetics plays a part in producing good athletes. But it goes beyond that, in my opinion. These kids have the benefit of being coached the right way by their dads from a very early age.
2021
Pick 2 ... Sam Darcy (WB)............ son of Luke Darcy
Pick 4 ... Nick Daicos (Coll)........... son of Peter Daicos
Pick 11.. Nasiah Wanganeen-Milera, stepson of Terry Milera (St Kilda)
Pick 59... Jackson Archer (NM)....... son of Glenn Archer
Pick 60... Jase Burgoyne (Port)....... son of Peter Burgoyne
Pick 65... Taj Woewodin (Melb)....... son of Shane Woewodin
2020
Pick 7 ... Elijah Hollands (Gold)...... son of Ben Hollands (Richmond)
Pick 8 ... Nik Cox (Ess)................. son of Darryl Cox (Fitzroy, Melbourne)
Pick 51.. Maurice Rioli jr (Rich)...... son of Maurice Rioli
2019
Pick 2 ... Noah Anderson (Gold)..... son of Dean Anderson (Hawthorn)
Pick 18... Mitch Georgiades (Port).. son of John Georgiades (Footscray)
Pick 25... Jackson Mead (Port)....... son of Darren Mead
Pick 29... Finn Maginness (Haw).... son of Scott Maginness
Pick 46... Hugo Ralphsmith (Rich).. son of Sean Ralphsmith (Hawthorn)
2018
Pick 10... Nick Blakey (Syd).......... son of John Blakey (Fitzroy, North)
Pick 26... Rhylee West (WB)......... son of Scott West
Pick 29... Will Kelly (Coll)............. son of Craig Kelly
Pick 49... Bailey Scott (NM).......... son of Robert Scott
Pick 69... Joel Crocker (NM).......... son of Darren Crocker
Pick 70... Ben Silvagni (Carl)......... son of Steve Silvagni
Pick 74... Oscar Brownless (Geel)... son of Billy Brownless
2017
Pick 2 ... Andrew Brayshaw (Freo)... son of Mark Brayshaw (Claremont, North Melb)
Pick 29... Charlie Spargo (Melb)...... son of Paul Spargo (North Melb)
Pick 34... Patrick Naish (Rich)......... son of Chris Naish
Pick 50... Tyler Brown (Coll)........... son of Gavin Brown
Pick 68... Hamish Brayshaw (WCE).. son of Mark Brayshaw (Claremont, North Melb)
Rookie... Brody Mihocek (Coll)......... son of Jack Mihocek (Essendon)
Rookie... Jackson Edwards (Adel)..... son of Tyson Edwards
Pick 17... Liam Ryan (WCE) --> father Darren Ryan played 2 games for Claremont in 1997
Pick 46... Ben Paton (St K) --> father Steve Paton played 190 games for North Albury and captained the club for six seasons
2016
Pick 35... Callum Brown (Coll).......... son of Gavin Brown
Pick 52... Willie Rioli jr (WCE)........... son of Willie Rioli (Hawthorn)
Pick 57... Josh Daicos (Coll)............. son of Peter Daicos
Pick 77... Jake Waterman (WCE)....... son of Chris Waterman
Pick 25... Ben Long (St K) --> father Chris Long (Michael's brother) played in 4 premierships for St Mary's (NTFL)
Pick 53... Jack Graham (Rich) --> father Jeff Graham played 77 games for Woodville-West Torrens in the SANFL
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Red Black and Blue
Brownlow Medallist
It's a mickey mouse rule for a non-professional competition.
This is a country that claims to love a fair go but is rife with cronyism and nepotism and this rule highlights it perfectly.
If Ashcroft or the Davey's want to play for their dad's club, they can via trade, so the teams that take them in the draft can benefit from their talent identification and get appropriate compensation for their finishing position.
Viceregal
Premium Platinum
Personally I am totally in favour of it - especially the part where we win the flag although I would prefer it if everyone passed on young master Ashcroft and we got him when matching a second rounder (yes I know not happening).
While I agree that F/S, F/D, M/S and M/D are all breaches of the purity of the draft I am trying to think of a single element in the AFL that is actually black and white ... certainly not the choice of who you play twice, not the days and timeslots you play in and try to sell to advertisers, not the umpiring in which there are grey areas and varied interpretations between the three umpires and even from the same umpire in the same game, no at the match review panel whose resistance to star power and narrative is legendarily poor, the grounds have variations in dimensions, one stadium has a roof, some teams get a guaranteed home ground familiarity advantage in a GF, the broadcast schedule, lack of neutrality in the commentary etc etc etc. The only thing I know is black and white (or white and black for clash) is Collingwood (Port pretensions aside).
If you want purity this is probably not the sport for you.
While I agree that F/S, F/D, M/S and M/D are all breaches of the purity of the draft I am trying to think of a single element in the AFL that is actually black and white ... certainly not the choice of who you play twice, not the days and timeslots you play in and try to sell to advertisers, not the umpiring in which there are grey areas and varied interpretations between the three umpires and even from the same umpire in the same game, no at the match review panel whose resistance to star power and narrative is legendarily poor, the grounds have variations in dimensions, one stadium has a roof, some teams get a guaranteed home ground familiarity advantage in a GF, the broadcast schedule, lack of neutrality in the commentary etc etc etc. The only thing I know is black and white (or white and black for clash) is Collingwood (Port pretensions aside).
If you want purity this is probably not the sport for you.
McIvor
Premiership Player
Talking about fairness; perhaps we could start with the draw then given interstate clubs are screwed way more than the precious Vic teams.
In regards to your last paragraph, I hope you werent referring to Brisbane as a 'big club' because that is laughable.
Just like the draft is a luck of the draw and inexact science, so are the beneficiaries of father/son and I certainly dont begrudge the likes of the Cats, Dogs or Pies that have had their fair share. What you also need to remember is that clubs can be blinded by taking a father/son. I was all for the Lions getting Schache, but in hindsight we were probably blinded by our desperate need for a key forward following our other significant father/son recruit, Jono Brown finishing up, and then made the wrong call when the likes of Oliver were available who the club also liked. Can't fault the club though.
I highly doubt we win the flag, but love the father/son rule for all clubs. Leave it be.
I know Schache's dad played for the Bears but he wasn't a F/S pick.
McIvor
Premiership Player
Completely forgot haha- point still stands thou - F/S can be just as much a bust as any high end draft pick.
Red Black and Blue
Brownlow Medallist
The higher the pick the less likely the bust statistically. Which is why forcing picks down the order is fundamentally wrong. It’s the only real mechanism to rebuild for bad teams. Now that mechanism is absolutely broken.
There is a near forty game difference and 33% more Brownlow votes on average between pick 1 and 2.
AFL Draft Pick Value Comparison - All Time - Draftguru
If teams at the top of the table are acquiring all the best free agents, all the best trade targets and are now acquiring the best youth without pay a significant price, we will see fewer and fewer teams climbing the ladder successfully.
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Viceregal
Premium Platinum
The difference there is that while the free agents and the trade targets are attracted to successful clubs/systems** (and really who can blame them) they still need to fit under the salary cap ... any adjustments to that are up to the AFL's policing of third party deals etc ... the whole best youth element is purely a function of what the club's position happens to be in the year of the F/s draft ... we could have still been a basket case or we could have been premiers so that affects all clubs equally independent of their position.
**is it not just success that is factored in ... lack of travel, guaranteed large crowds and blockbusters, how the club treats their players during and after, protective cover in the media could all be strong and lasting weights on the scale when it comes to the decisions made by said free agents and trade targets (think about the narrative that surrounds someone contemplating Freo vs Pies and how shocked everyone would be if he chose the Dockers...)
- Thread starter
- #67
What this list shows is the occurrence of father-son picks being taken early in the draft has increased dramatically in the last two years. Prior to 2021, the last time we saw a top 10 father-son pick come through was 2014 when Darcy Moore was taken with pick 9. Now we have a situation where we'll see three top 4 father-son picks come through in a 12-month period - Pick 2 2021 Sam Darcy, Pick 4 2021 Nick Daicos, Pick 1 2022 Will Ashcroft.
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What the list also shows is that there's not a strong correlation between star father and star son.
The bolded players were guns and their sons were drafted pick 26 or later. Apologies to Maginness who I don't remember.
The son of Marcus Ashcroft (who was a pretty good player) is touted as the #1 pick, while the son of Michael Voss (a top 10 player of the 2000s) was passed over by every club in the mid season draft.
I remember Mark Brayshaw saying when they went to the 2017 draft they were anticipating having one son taken in the first 5 picks and another in the last 5 - which is pretty much how it panned out with Andrew at 2 and Hamish at 68/78.
The bolded players were guns and their sons were drafted pick 26 or later. Apologies to Maginness who I don't remember.
The son of Marcus Ashcroft (who was a pretty good player) is touted as the #1 pick, while the son of Michael Voss (a top 10 player of the 2000s) was passed over by every club in the mid season draft.
I remember Mark Brayshaw saying when they went to the 2017 draft they were anticipating having one son taken in the first 5 picks and another in the last 5 - which is pretty much how it panned out with Andrew at 2 and Hamish at 68/78.
As should have been done to Collingwood last year, force as many point out of the f/s club's as possible
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Isn’t that what happened? Collingwood had to match GC bid? Like Bulldogs had to match GWS bid at number 2? Maybe an option is to tweak the rule so that if a club finahed higher on the ladder, ie Bulldogs to GWS then the discount is reduced, then again that is only a minor tweak.
I can see a good argument for removing the points discount, but having the F/S rule is one of the things that makes the clubs feel like actual clubs rather than franchises or corporations. You don't have this kind of feeling in leagues like the NFL or NBA where the sons of top players routinely play for different teams to their fathers.
Good point but Jake is not Peter's son, that would be Osca who debuted for the Cats VFL last weekend.
Grand Uncle Horace
Shake down the thunder
A Brion win is not the best of results but certainly not the worst. If that happens given young Ashcroft looks a potential great it would indeed be
LukeParkerno1
Post-Human
Think the easiest compromise is that top 15 picks shouldn't get the discount. You still get the player, but you pay full price. It is an easy and fair compromise. It is only the top picks that everyone is having a whinge about, I'm fine with removing the discounts. Priority access is the benefit.
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I will immediately start a hunger strike, and advise the rest of you to join me.
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