What They're Saying - The Bulldogs Media Thread - Part 4

gangsta deluxe · Nov 10, 2023

The Catholic Church said an abuse victim deserved $250,000. A jury gave him $3 million

A victim of notorious paedophile priest Vincent Kiss became the first person to test his civil case before a jury, and their verdict set a landmark precedent.

www.theage.com.au

Another similar result today. It’s clearly a trend now. I spoke to some barrister friends, apparently these were previously often resolved by settlement and the Catholic Church used to do very large settlements so we can get used to these results now (I.e. victims won’t need to settle). I think that’s a net societal positive outcome.

A pity how this has played out for the club and how convoluted and frankly unfair the system is to all involved in most cases.

I’m not sure this result is unfair though, I think more likely previous lower ones were.

sunny3193 · Nov 10, 2023

doggies ftw said:
We don’t really know the answer yet unfortunately - I would have thought insurance would cover something like this but as others have pointed out that insurance would likely have had to be in place at the time of the incident which is unlikely.

From the sounds of our CEOs comments that we’ll likely have to take out a loan to pay this it sounds like the damages will be paid directly out of our pocket…. But who knows if that’s true or not or just public speak - as we could in theory just cover it out of our cash reserves (although obviously severely deflating them in the process) and who knows if the AFL will get involved too considering like you mentioned there’s other cases that could go the same way. Even if there’s more victims that come out on this one it would be enough to kill a club, especially a small one like yours or ours.

So in short, we really don’t know at this stage

Thanks for your reply.
We will be in the same boat as you at some stage.
Hence the motivation for my question.

Dogs Rule · Nov 11, 2023

Hobdog said:
Aren’t we also being sued by Picko?

Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

This one infuriates me. Sounds hard hearted, but he chose to play the game, he chose to go back out there, choices. Choices and personal responsibility. Every single player knows it's a physical and tough game. They know the risks, they know they could get hurt, badly hurt and they choose to play.

TiAn_ · Nov 11, 2023

gangsta deluxe said:
I’ll just post this here without comment.View attachment 1850001

That’s a fine for workplace safety breaches, which is entirely different to an award of damages, as it’s not compensatory. It’s not at all relevant to our issue.

dogwatch · Nov 11, 2023

'There were other victims': Western Bulldogs sexual abuse scandal could widen

The Western Bulldogs sexual abuse scandal could widen, after survivor Adam Kneale was awarded the highest compensation payout in history.

www.abc.net.au

Dogs Rule · Nov 11, 2023

So the lawyer has foreshadowed more cases, so let's say that happens, similar payouts and all of a sudden the club is bankrupted. Then what? Where does it end? And where is the AFL in all this? The club was part of a competition they ran.

No amount of money can make up for the pain and suffering here...maybe I'm just very cynical when it comes to leeches, I mean, lawyers.

Bulldogs85 · Nov 11, 2023

Dogs Rule said:
So the lawyer has foreshadowed more cases, so let's say that happens, similar payouts and all of a sudden the club is bankrupted. Then what? Where does it end? And where is the AFL in all this? The club was part of a competition they ran.

No amount of money can make up for the pain and suffering here...maybe I'm just very cynical when it comes to leeches, I mean, lawyers.

Would the AFL want to get involved if their are other lawsuits against the club.

Fossie 32 · Nov 11, 2023

dogwatch said:
'There were other victims': Western Bulldogs sexual abuse scandal could widen

The Western Bulldogs sexual abuse scandal could widen, after survivor Adam Kneale was awarded the highest compensation payout in history.

www.abc.net.au

If this is the tip of the iceberg we're screwed

Billyc · Nov 11, 2023

doggies ftw said:
We don’t really know the answer yet unfortunately - I would have thought insurance would cover something like this but as others have pointed out that insurance would likely have had to be in place at the time of the incident which is unlikely.

From the sounds of our CEOs comments that we’ll likely have to take out a loan to pay this it sounds like the damages will be paid directly out of our pocket…. But who knows if that’s true or not or just public speak - as we could in theory just cover it out of our cash reserves (although obviously severely deflating them in the process) and who knows if the AFL will get involved too considering like you mentioned there’s other cases that could go the

A standard liability policy would need to have been in place and covering an incident like this at the time it occurred. It sounds like the club had inadequate insurance at the time.

Historical abuse insurance is available which can cover incidents from years and decades earlier but they come with strict disclosure requirements and wouldn’t cover known incidents or claims. Schools for example will generally have these policies in place. However if the club had a policy like this in place now or in recent years, it likely would not cover this incident because the club was made aware of this victim’s claim since the 1990s.

For what it’s worth, I think the damages sum will be reduced on appeal, but it will be very hard to overturn the jury’s finding of liability

Bulldogs85 · Nov 11, 2023

Fossie 32 said:
If this is the tip of the iceberg we're screwed

Might be tip of the iceberg for a lot of other AFL and even NRL clubs

GetDimmaBack · Nov 11, 2023

Bulldogs85 said:
Would the AFL want to get involved if their are other lawsuits against the club.

Sad as it would be, I think it's likely that there will be similar issues at other clubs (St Kilda already has one to deal with).

The AFL may have to be involved if litigation becomes widespread across the League.

Bulldogs85 · Nov 11, 2023

GetDimmaBack said:
Sad as it would be, I think it's likely that there will be similar issues at other clubs (St Kilda already has one to deal with).

The AFL may have to be involved if litigation becomes widespread across the League.

Geelong also have a case to deal with

Former player takes Geelong to Supreme Court over alleged historic sexual abuse

www.foxsports.com.au

Hobdog · Nov 11, 2023

Dogs Rule said:
So the lawyer has foreshadowed more cases, so let's say that happens, similar payouts and all of a sudden the club is bankrupted. Then what? Where does it end? And where is the AFL in all this? The club was part of a competition they ran.

No amount of money can make up for the pain and suffering here...maybe I'm just very cynical when it comes to leeches, I mean, lawyers.

The AFL has signed up to the National Redress Scheme, so hopefully there’ll be some coverage.

Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

Sentinel · Nov 11, 2023

Dogs Rule said:
So the lawyer has foreshadowed more cases, so let's say that happens, similar payouts and all of a sudden the club is bankrupted. Then what? Where does it end? And where is the AFL in all this? The club was part of a competition they ran.

No amount of money can make up for the pain and suffering here...maybe I'm just very cynical when it comes to leeches, I mean, lawyers.

From this article (The Western Bulldogs were hit with an 'earthquake' legal judgement. The aftershocks could follow):

One alleged victim took to the stand in Mr Kneale's trial and backed up his story. That man also said Hobbs abused him at the club's headquarters.

Sadly, but completely unsurprisingly, it appears this wasn't an isolated case and there are more victims as a result of this scumbag's actions.

Bulldogs85 · Nov 11, 2023

Sentinel said:
From this article (The Western Bulldogs were hit with an 'earthquake' legal judgement. The aftershocks could follow):

One alleged victim took to the stand in Mr Kneale's trial and backed up his story. That man also said Hobbs abused him at the club's headquarters.

Sadly, but completely unsurprisingly, it appears this wasn't an isolated case and there are more victims as a result of this scumbag's actions.

Makes you think how many more kids were abused by this scumbag

Pugz89 · Nov 11, 2023

Dogs Rule said:
This one infuriates me. Sounds hard hearted, but he chose to play the game, he chose to go back out there, choices. Choices and personal responsibility. Every single player knows it's a physical and tough game. They know the risks, they know they could get hurt, badly hurt and they choose to play.

But if he has been advised it is fine to return, and he does, but then finds out his scans actually weren't showing he was fine to return, then you can't blame him for making a decision based on medical info that was intentional withheld from him. I think thats the crux of Picko's case if I'm correct.

Sentinel · Nov 11, 2023

In Picken's case I believe any payout will likely be insured, although there are now laws preventing insurance coverage to indemnify against WHS liabilities so it might depend how it is ruled and whether that was the case when he played.

Bulldogs85 · Nov 11, 2023

A great problem’: Bont on the young gun who’ll create headaches for the Bulldogs

Western Bulldogs captain Marcus Bontempelli says the likely addition of father-son prospect Jordan Croft in this month’s national draft will add to the “good headaches” at selection next season.

Croft, the 200-centimetre son of former defender Matthew, who played the last of his 186 games in red, white and blue in 2004, will add to a plethora of young, tall forwards at the Bulldogs. Aaron Naughton, Jamarra Ugle-Hagan, Rory Lobb and Sam Darcy are already among the strong marking options, a far cry from the early days of Luke Beveridge’s tenure, and even for much of the past two decades at the club.

Croft will be given time to develop, but the Bulldogs’ determination to secure him was confirmed when they struck a deal with Gold Coast through the trade period where they handed over picks 10 and 17 plus a future first-round pick in return for selections four, 46 and 51 and a future third-round selection.The No.4 pick should allow the Bulldogs to get ahead of an expected bid for Croft from rival clubs, likely between selections 10 and 15. Bontempelli, coming off arguably his finest season, said Croft would be an excellent selection.
“He has come in through different pre-seasons and trained with us. It was probably only the last year or two that I noticed how tall and athletic he was. It’s been 12 months since I have seen him last, and he has improved even more. I am excited at the prospect of joining the football club, for sure,” Bontempelli said.

“We couldn’t buy one [tall forward] a few years ago. Now they are everywhere. It’s a great problem to have – definitely good headaches for the coaches.”
Croft kicked 23 goals in 11 games for the Calder Cannons this past season.

The Bulldogs already have three father-son players in Rhylee West, Tom Liberatore and Darcy.

“The last couple of years we have been rewarded for the gene pool of others. Even through the NGA [next generation academy], Buku [Khamis] and Jamarra, we have been very fortunate with the contribution coming out of those groups,” Bontempelli, the AFL MVP this season, said.

Bontempelli is on the mend after surgery this week on his right ankle, but insists his pre-season training will not be overly impacted. Senior players are due to officially start training in the last week of November.

The Bulldogs have undergone coaching change around Beveridge, by adding Jarryn Geary, Daniel Pratt, Alex Johnson and Matt Egan to work with their 2016 premiership coach. Egan, the former head of development at Geelong, has joined in the new role of coaching and performance manager, overseeing Beveridge.“They seem like really good, experienced additions to, hopefully, bring in some ways to potentially enhance our football, our structure, our style, obviously working with Bevo … and the guys who are still the fabric of the football club,” Bontempelli said.

Testekill · Nov 11, 2023

GetDimmaBack said:
Sad as it would be, I think it's likely that there will be similar issues at other clubs (St Kilda already has one to deal with).

The AFL may have to be involved if litigation becomes widespread across the League.

Bulldogs85 said:
Might be tip of the iceberg for a lot of other AFL and even NRL clubs

Yeah I have no doubt in my mind that there are a lot of cases like this that have been buried throughout professional sporting leagues. There's going to be a reckoning.

Testekill · Nov 11, 2023

sunny3193 said:
I’m not sure if I am in the right thread on your board.
I apologise if I am not.
And I am not here to throw stones.
The subject is too serious for that.
Saints have got their own issues within the management of our Little League teams in the 70’s.
I am actually seeking information about this recent compensation judgment.
Does anyone know if the damages are covered by the Club’s insurance, or is it a straight hit to the Club?
As I said, we have our own issues arising from the same guys who were found to be preying on kids at Beaumaris Primary.
If anyone knows, I’d appreciate it.

Would be a straight hit to the club, liability insurance can only cover stuff that would have been in insurance clauses of the time and stuff like payouts for victims of CSA were very uncommon so would rarely be covered.

doggiesin08 · Nov 11, 2023

Testekill said:
Would be a straight hit to the club, liability insurance can only cover stuff that would have been in insurance clauses of the time and stuff like payouts for victims of CSA were very uncommon so would rarely be covered.

Current insurance can cover events that pre-dated the policy. Similarly lapsed policies can’t be claimed on even for events that occurred while covered.

At least that’s how health insurance works, but I could be way off on liability insurance.

TiAn_ · Nov 12, 2023

doggiesin08 said:
Current insurance can cover events that pre-dated the policy. Similarly lapsed policies can’t be claimed on even for events that occurred while covered.

At least that’s how health insurance works, but I could be way off on liability insurance.

Are you thinking of pre-existing conditions? It’s a bit different. You’re covered for the current costs of a condition you already have. Liability policies generally only cover occurrences/conduct during a policy period, so you have to have a policy in place at the time.

Bulldogs Legend · Nov 12, 2023

gangsta deluxe said:
The Catholic Church said an abuse victim deserved $250,000. A jury gave him $3 million

A victim of notorious paedophile priest Vincent Kiss became the first person to test his civil case before a jury, and their verdict set a landmark precedent.

www.theage.com.au

Another similar result today. It’s clearly a trend now. I spoke to some barrister friends, apparently these were previously often resolved by settlement and the Catholic Church used to do very large settlements so we can get used to these results now (I.e. victims won’t need to settle). I think that’s a net societal positive outcome.

A pity how this has played out for the club and how convoluted and frankly unfair the system is to all involved in most cases.

I’m not sure this result is unfair though, I think more likely previous lower ones were.

No amount of $ makes up for the crime and this ruling is not making the situation any better IMO

Bulldogs Legend · Nov 12, 2023

grassman75 said:
Thats the way of the world. plenty Of examples here in Australia of this occuring after muc( longer time spans

Only in situactions where it was proven or accepted that the organisations had knowledge of the crimes and offending and did nothing to stop it eg the Catholic Church were made aware of the crimes and yet redeployed the offenders.
This is a totally different situation where there was no real evidence that the Club knew anything about the heinous crimes.
This is a very bad decision by the jury based on no evidence and I can’t help feeling the disgusting nature of the crime has clouded their judgement

Bulldogs Legend · Nov 12, 2023

TheBont said:
For a club that preaches a safe and inclusive space, for all this to come to light is disgusting how they’ve treated this bloke after it all. Club continues to disappoint me lately.

You got a Time Machine have you? No one really knows what happened back then and it was a totally different environment to today. It was not something that was front of mind for any organisation back in that time. If the same situation occurred today then yes your criticism would be correct

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What They're Saying - The Bulldogs Media Thread - Part 4

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