When will the Carlton FC Arrive?

[Chief]

Part 2 of this thread is here:

When will the Carlton FC Arrive? Part 2

PART 1 of this thread is here: https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/when-will-the-carlton-fc-arrive.1259822/ ============= We're all thinking it. We're watching this story play out for the 4th time in the last 20 years and it's the same story every time. They have a great list of exciting...

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[CarltonBlooz]

 

[freddy mercury]

Their board bangs on about Essendon and their lack of success. When in reality in the last 20 years they're both basically even. Carlton have more spoons, Essendon have one. That's the only big difference.

 

[RUNVS]

Their board bangs on about Essendon and their lack of success. When in reality in the last 20 years they're both basically even. Carlton have more spoons, Essendon have one. That's the only big difference.

Carlton have had a lot of better picks though. At one stage Carlton had 3 number 1 draft picks all playing for them. Essendon never had those large amounts of really top draft picks.

 

[freddy mercury]

Carlton have had a lot of better picks though. At one stage Carlton had 3 number 1 draft picks all playing for them. Essendon never had those large amounts of really top draft picks.

What's that mean? If anything it works against them.

 

[RUNVS]

What's that mean? If anything it works against them.

Agreed. I was saying that Carlton should have had more success than Essendon in the last decade because of their better draft picks.

 

[Freomaniac]

Carlton has a cultural issue it needs address and it starts with the coach. I have no idea whether Teague is good enough or not BUT he has an issue with favouring some players (mainly older ones) and being against others. Also trying to make players into something they aren't to suit a game style instead of having a game style to suit the players. He has also made promises to players he has not kept.

The list is talented but is developed poorly. This has been addressed with the addition of a proper Reserves side and Luke Power heading development. The issue is what damage has been done in the meantime and how quick can it be fixed?

This has lead to a number of young players not coming on as hoped and other players getting games on average performances. Older players have been kept on when they simply shouldn't have.

The side is also mentally soft. There are few "Leaders" that step up when the going gets tough. It is time for Cripps & Docherty to lead THEIR side.

The club is now simply at a crossroads. It will either step up and become the top side it should or it will fall in another decade of mediocrity. The building blocks are in place but does it have the people at the top to make the hard decisions to go to the next level? I hope so but so far that has been a big NO

Here is to turning it around.

Go Blues

I dont think David Teague is the Problem. Definately an improvement on Brendan Bolton. Saying That.... Brendan Bolton had to see the toughest years of Carltons rebuild of 2016-17, When those 2015 draftees of Weitering and McKay were starting their careers. Weitering is a solid Key defender. McKay is slowly developing in a good KPF. Cripps, Walsh and Doherty (when fit) are good. The core is decent. thats the thing, but that core needs a decent supporting cast.

Remember.... Bolton was sacked in mid 2019 as Carlton won just 1 of 10 games. Teague takes over the last 10 or so games of 2019 and only had one bad game. Even the loss the eventual premiers Richmond was a 28 point loss. They managed to grind out some tough wins in the 2nd half of 2019, including beating the dockers in perth without cripps.

Sacking the coach wont do much..... The board needs to change and the Mentality. Carlton need to lure some assistant coaches and possibly some new medical staff. I would of chased after David Noble before he got the North Melbourne coaching job and put him as a List manager.

I look at Brisbane as an example. They made 3 major changes to turn the club around....

1. Hired Greg Swan as their CEO who Ironically once worked at Carlton.

2. Hired Chris Fagan who was an assistant under Coach Clarkson at the Hawks from 2008-16.

3. Hired David Noble who was the crows list manager. He was the list manager at the crows until Late 2016. Goes to Brisbane from late 2016 until late 2019. Brisbane gradually improves and goes from bottom 4 in 2017 and 2018 to finalists in 2019 and 2020.




Everyone says Richmonds core is 4 players and that was Riewoldt, Dustin Martin, Trent Cotchin and the retired Alex Rance. But that team had 10-12 solid B graders that helped that A-grade core. Name 10 B graders that would help Carltons core players?

 

[backtozero]

A lot of people questioning why the media gives them so much credit which leads to the question, why do they get given prime time slots when they haven't earned them? Powerful people in the industry obviously support them.

 

[Pistol Night]

I can cook what they’re smelling.

Was that the line? I dunno I forget.


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Can you smell the come in the cooking

 

[Pistol Night]

Hurts me to say but I do think they are on the right track they just still have too many D graders still that make poor decisions and have poor disposal. If they can add a few more pieces at trade time they will improve further.
As an aside did anyone when looking at the fixture expect them to be anything other than 0-2?

Every dickhead in the media

 

[Pistol Night]

I don’t think it’ll necessarily be a failure.

Of course it won’t. The Ross Lyon hate is ridiculous. Got both teams he coached to grand finals and should of pinched a couple.

 

[btdg]

And how do they keep all those top draft picks under the salary cap?

Carlton’s salary cap might be the one thing that is quite well managed.

We really don’t have a lot in the 28-30 age bracket (still), which can be the danger zone of highly paid guys whose output is likely to drop. What we do have in that age bracket (Newnes, Newman, Jones) is cheap pickups from other clubs. Probably our one expensive older salary is Murphy who is year to year and likely to go. Then there’s a bunch of 25-27 year olds likely to be good for a few more years, whose big money contracts have tended to be front-loaded (Martin, McGovern, Williams, Saad all likely to go down in salary while still having 4-5 good years).

We have a LOT of players aged 20-24 but weirdly our bad injury run and slow development helps us there. Charlie Curnow is either retiring and thus clearing a massive chunk of salary, or staying on a lower amount 2-3 years down the track. Guys like SPS, Dow, Fisher, Setterfield - probably staying, probably carve out solid careers but not getting huge money soon.

It adds up to a huge amount of flexibility. We would probably still expect our cap to drop quite a bit in the next couple of years. Probably enough for another big pickup without creating pressure on others. If Cripps leaves or Curnow retires, we’re going to be sitting close to the cap floor again while arguably not losing a huge amount from the team (at least the 2020-21 team).

Sure, we’ll probably use that cap flexi

I dont think David Teague is the Problem. Definately an improvement on Brendan Bolton. Saying That.... Brendan Bolton had to see the toughest years of Carltons rebuild of 2016-17, When those 2015 draftees of Weitering and McKay were starting their careers. Weitering is a solid Key defender. McKay is slowly developing in a good KPF. Cripps, Walsh and Doherty (when fit) are good. The core is decent. thats the thing, but that core needs a decent supporting cast.

Remember.... Bolton was sacked in mid 2019 as Carlton won just 1 of 10 games. Teague takes over the last 10 or so games of 2019 and only had one bad game. Even the loss the eventual premiers Richmond was a 28 point loss. They managed to grind out some tough wins in the 2nd half of 2019, including beating the dockers in perth without cripps.

Sacking the coach wont do much..... The board needs to change and the Mentality. Carlton need to lure some assistant coaches and possibly some new medical staff. I would of chased after David Noble before he got the North Melbourne coaching job and put him as a List manager.

I look at Brisbane as an example. They made 3 major changes to turn the club around....

1. Hired Greg Swan as their CEO who Ironically once worked at Carlton.

2. Hired Chris Fagan who was an assistant under Coach Clarkson at the Hawks from 2008-16.

3. Hired David Noble who was the crows list manager. He was the list manager at the crows until Late 2016. Goes to Brisbane from late 2016 until late 2019. Brisbane gradually improves and goes from bottom 4 in 2017 and 2018 to finalists in 2019 and 2020.




Everyone says Richmonds core is 4 players and that was Riewoldt, Dustin Martin, Trent Cotchin and the retired Alex Rance. But that team had 10-12 solid B graders that helped that A-grade core. Name 10 B graders that would help Carltons core players?

I have the complete opposite view. Carlton are as well stocked with b graders as anyone and have the depth to be successful. Our issue is a lack of top-tier players, and to some exten where the b-graders play on the field.

At this point for example I’d classify (where A is AA level or close to it, B is a walk up start in almost any team but not AA level, C is a role player, D is a battler or someone getting experience)

Midfield: Cripps (B+ on the last 18 months), Walsh B+, (great, but not fully there yet), Williams (B), Curnow (B), Newnes (not far off a B), Dow (D), Setterfield (C), Pittonet (C)

Forwards: McKay (B), Fisher (B), Martin (B), Murphy (B), Fogarty (B- at least on this season’s form), Betts (B-C), Gibbons (probably deserves a B this year), Casboult (C+ Just for versatility), Curnow****, McGovern(B-)
, Silvagni (C)***

Defence: Weitering (B+), Docherty (B), Saad (B+, maybe an A for his position), Jones (B), SPS (C+ if not B) Plowman (C, could make a case for B), Willamdon (C), Newman (C)

I think you can make the case that Carlton have B-graders galore, but with Cripps and Docherty shadows ofwhat they were and others either injured or not quite there, I don’t think there’s a single A-grader

Its also a positioning thing - the weakest line is the midfield, which tends to be stacked with the best on other teams and at times we are trotting out C graders against other teams A graders. Then we have guys like Martin, Saad, as B graders playing on Ds who are hidden on other teams forward/backline

I reckon that plays into the swings we have too - sometimes we can’t get the ball for a quarter cos the midfield rotations get smashed. Other times we are breaking even in the mid and look Incredible as we outclass opposition on the fringes

but overall, it’s pretty hard to win without an A grader on each line and right now I don’t think Carlton have any.

 

[lumpinee]

Every dickhead in the media

agreed,all these media clowns should be handing back theyre wages,the misleading fake news they talk about Carlton is pathetic,
its on a par with the Corona, it started with a wuhan bat,drivel
the way they build them up is an embarrasment,media picking up brown paper bags in Lygon st coffee shops
Carlton & the 2021 media : Same Circus,just a few different Clowns

 

[Hawk_francais]

Please don’t gimme this “Carlton have too many/too few A-grader/B-grader/C+grader” rubbish.

Look at Richmond 2016 compared to 2017. It’s just effort and willingness to work for your teammates. Of course every club talks about it, but talk is cheap. It’s really hard to build that kind of trust and belief. Richmond had one thing going for them: they had a core of players who had played a lot of football together. Once they altered their on and off-field behaviour, the reward came fast.

Will probably take longer for Carlton due to the fact it’s a young side, but I think they’re probably going to be alright as long as the board don’t get impatient and go saviour-hunting as usual.

 

[DeadlyAkkuret]

And how do they keep all those top draft picks under the salary cap?

By those top picks being mostly average.


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[StillAtLarge]

'They know we're coming' lol. I'm guessing 'they' are bookmakers?

 

[Pistol Night]

agreed,all these media clowns should be handing back theyre wages,the misleading fake news they talk about Carlton is pathetic,
its on a par with the Corona, it started with a wuhan bat,drivel
the way they build them up is an embarrasment,media picking up brown paper bags in Lygon st coffee shops
Carlton & the 2021 media : Same Circus,just a few different Clowns

At least the arseholes at the Herald have seemingly given up on their yearly push to convince us all that Essendon are a top 4 team.

 

[master bate]

2 blockbusters against quality sides and 4 finalists in the first 6 is a pretty rough draw for a team that didn't play finals last year. They really would be helped getting the off broadway start.

If they stop conceding 5 goal runs in seemingly every game they'll be a decent side.

Given they have good defenders and strong on ballers there's no reason to keep the game so open after they've conceded a couple in a row. Dig in boys. Dig in.

 

[Bulldog1954]

Will probably take longer for Carlton due to the fact it’s a young side

Is it?

This round Brisbane, Sydney, Adelaide, Essendon, Gold Coast, North Melbourne, St Kilda, Melbourne, Fremantle, GWS and the Western Bulldogs are putting out sides that are younger and have played less games.

No player that played for Carlton Thursday has played less than 20 games.

The youngest player they had out there was Walsh. Half the side had played 100 games. Its not exactly kids being thrown to the wolves.

 

[Off Tap]

I posted this on another forum last week, it was seen as overly negative and misguided, you be the judge :

I found myself nodding along to your post all the way through. On the money.

 

[10571z]

How did they salary dumps work Carlton fans? Nothing better than bringing players who aren’t up to it into the club

 

[Pistol Night]

How did they salary dumps work Carlton fans? Nothing better than bringing players who aren’t up to it into the club

Yeah losers. When it comes to performing a well planned salary dump they should be looking at how we kicked it in the dick

 

[tonygeeks]

Didn't look to bad to me , Williams and Saad are bgreat pick ups , Walsh is the perfect mid and McKay is the perfect KPF for the ' new ' style of footy

Wouldn't surprise me if they get on a roll and put 6-8 wins in a row together at some stage this year and bolt into flag calculations

Maybe play Cripps mid in the centre bounces then as a mobile ruck around the ground


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[RUNVS]

Didn't look to bad to me , Williams and Saad are bgreat pick ups , Walsh is the perfect mid and McKay is the perfect KPF for the ' new ' style of footy

Wouldn't surprise me if they get on a roll and put 6-8 wins in a row together at some stage this year and bolt into flag calculations

Maybe play Cripps mid in the centre bounces then as a mobile ruck around the ground


On iPad using BigFooty.com mobile app

The problem with Carlton is that yes they are undoubtably better than they used to be, but they had an average age this week of almost 26 years of age. They should be in their premiership window right now but they just aren't. In a few years time if they have not won a premiership they are going to have to go through another mini-rebuild and start over again.

 

[Hawk_francais]

Is it?

This round Brisbane, Sydney, Adelaide, Essendon, Gold Coast, North Melbourne, St Kilda, Melbourne, Fremantle, GWS and the Western Bulldogs are putting out sides that are younger and have played less games.

No player that played for Carlton Thursday has played less than 20 games.

The youngest player they had out there was Walsh. Half the side had played 100 games. Its not exactly kids being thrown to the wolves.

Yeah it is absolutely in terms of core players. Cripps, McKay, Weitering, Walsh, Docherty... dunno if any of them are older than 25. It’s that group who will represent their next premiership window

 

[SnusCG]

They're lucky they're in the Melbourne market to be honest.

Hard to imagine the likes of Cripps, McKay, Curnow, Weitering, Walsh etc. sticking around if they were at non-victorian clubs that had performed that badly over the last few decades.