Which A-Grade Midfielder?

[Sanders]

FFS Sanders who was saying anyone was wrong. The small mindedness is bewildering.

No, you've got yet another daft idea and want a pat on the back for how clever you are.

When in truth it's only about your salty bitterness and what you can't see.

Top 5 AFLPA MVP, Brownlow
Starting rover for AA side
B&F

But you can't see what's so good about him? That's all on you.

 

[Tex200]

Interesting that he was a fair way back in the coaches association award. Would be interesting to see the top 5 of the players mvp next to the coaches over the last few years. I'd be surprised if there aren't many posts in 2012 hoping for Danger to use the ball a bit better and add an outside dimension to his game. It hasn't just been Port supporters saying his disposal needs to improve over his tenure with us. It's been a pretty constant discussion topic. Especially that year that Sando had him playing hurt.

Weren't you suggesting we didn't get enough for him in the trade?

Which way do you want it?

 

[1970crow]

Weren't you suggesting we didn't get enough for him in the trade?

Which way do you want it?

I'm just suggesting that Danger had areas that could be improved and these haven't been manufactured following his trade to Geelong. Seeing as it's been mentioned, I thought I'd take a look at the awards and was genuinely surprised that he wasn't close in the coaches voting last year, JPK knocked over Fyfe by 1 vote. I wondered if there are anomalies between the players and coaches like this over the last few years or whether the AFL coaches genuinely haven't rated his impact as highly as others. I think we definitely could have gotten more in a trade, even with a weakness or 2, he's still worth 2 x pick 9's and I think we should have been after their 2016 1st rounder. I'm not sure how hard we pushed in the 20 minutes it took to agree to their offer. But then again, I'm not certain the value that we applied to Gore. Perhaps we see him as worth an early 2nd, in which case we did ok for an uncontracted player with pick 50 odd being worthless to us.

 

[Tex200]

I'm just suggesting that Danger had areas that could be improved and these haven't been manufactured following his trade to Geelong. Seeing as it's been mentioned, I thought I'd take a look at the awards and was genuinely surprised that he wasn't close in the coaches voting last year, JPK knocked over Fyfe by 1 vote. I wondered if there are anomalies between the players and coaches like this over the last few years or whether the AFL coaches genuinely haven't rated his impact as highly as others. I think we definitely could have gotten more in a trade, even with a weakness or 2, he's still worth 2 x pick 9's and I think we should have been after their 2016 1st rounder. I'm not sure how hard we pushed in the 20 minutes it took to agree to their offer. But then again, I'm not certain the value that we applied to Gore. Perhaps we see him as worth an early 2nd, in which case we did ok for an uncontracted player with pick 50 odd being worthless to us.

That's all fair enough, and no one would suggest he's faultless, but constantly bobbing up and trying to erode his standing in the game as a player just looks salty and childish.

 

[1970crow]

That's all fair enough, and no one would suggest he's faultless, but constantly bobbing up and trying to erode his standing in the game as a player just looks salty and childish.

I guess it can occur if a counter argument against a player like Neale is that he's not enough like Danger. That kind of response has been somewhat consistent, not from you, but others have certainly bought Danger into the discussion which results in his weaknesses being aired. I think any reference to Danger in the thread should earn a warning. The player that was here is irrelevant, we're after the best mid that we can get our hands on and it's not going to be him.

 

[Sanders]

I think a legitimate criticism of him that has been made over the years, and one I personally subscribe to, is that he can go missing.

Which is not the same as saying he doesn't impact games or isn't that good, that's just dumb

He's not perfect. His kicking could use work, and doesn't work hard to make position to receive out wide and use his pace. All criticisms you can make of Judd too.

He makes a massive impact on the contest, he lifts players, and has the ability to impose himself on the game; his ability to hit the stoppage at pace is a rare trait. He certainly breaks lines from the inside, he can power through the middle which makes it hard to setup against

But again, saying he goes missing and into cruise mode too often is a vastly different beast to saying he doesn't make much impact when he's on.

Look at final against the dogs. Missing in the first half, electric in the second. not many players can boss the game all over the ground like he did. When he pops up, something is going to happen.

 

[baldandbroke]

No, you've got yet another daft idea and want a pat on the back for how clever you are.

When in truth it's only about your salty bitterness and what you can't see.

Top 5 AFLPA MVP, Brownlow
Starting rover for AA side
B&F

But you can't see what's so good about him? That's all on you.

No-one is saying he isn't a good player.
I'm saying that IMO we won't miss his contested stuff as much as some (like EC posted) think, and the rest of his game is not that special.

I couldn't care less about your petty little taunts Sanders, I'm not one for that sort of brainless bait. But at least you got a like from EC - that should make you puff your chest out good and hard. Well done.

 

[Elite Crow]

No-one is saying he isn't a good player.
I'm saying that IMO we won't miss his contested stuff as much as some (like EC posted) think, and the rest of his game is not that special.

I couldn't care less about your petty little taunts Sanders, I'm not one for that sort of brainless bait. But at least you got a like from EC - that should make you puff your chest out good and hard. Well done.

He isn't a good player he's a great player. He is a beast that has some flaws but every side in the comp would want him and there is a reason for that.

You don't think we will miss his contested stuff? Yeah right. He was so far ahead our best clearance player it wasn't funny.

 

[baldandbroke]

He isn't a good player he's a great player. He is a beast that has some flaws but every side in the comp would want him and there is a reason for that.

You don't think we will miss his contested stuff? Yeah right. He was so far ahead our best clearance player it wasn't funny.

No, I hope we don't play a high contested possession game at all. Like I posted here, compare us to the Hawks and see if you can spot the difference.

Here are a few stats to get you started:

Contested Possesions
Top - Collingwood
Worst - GWS
Adelaide - 2nd
Hawthorn - 13th

Uncontested Possesions
Top - Hawks
Worst - GC
Adelaide - 15th

Disposal Efficiency %
Top - Hawks
Worst - GC
Adelaide - 17th

 

[Elite Crow]

No, I hope we don't play a high contested possession game at all. Like I posted here, compare us to the Hawks and see if you can spot the difference.

Here are a few stats to get you started:

Contested Possesions
Top - Collingwood
Worst - GWS
Adelaide - 2nd
Hawthorn - 13th

Uncontested Possesions
Top - Hawks
Worst - GC
Adelaide - 15th

Disposal Efficiency %
Top - Hawks
Worst - GC
Adelaide - 17th

The Hawks have developed their game style on the back of a team that can kick. We've made some in roads into improving our kicking ability with the players we've traded in and drafted but we have a long way to go before we can dump our contested style of play.

 

[1970crow]

The Hawks have developed their game style on the back of a team that can kick. We've made some in roads into improving our kicking ability with the players we've traded in and drafted but we have a long way to go before we can dump our contested style of play.

By the end of this year the guys that strategy was built around will be gone. I think we'll see a significant movement away from that this year. Obviously when there's a stoppage you still try and win the ball, but I reckon we'll have a greater emphasis on what we do when we win it and defending when we don't.

 

[Coopers]

The Hawks have developed their game style on the back of a team that can kick. We've made some in roads into improving our kicking ability with the players we've traded in and drafted but we have a long way to go before we can dump our contested style of play.

Kicking the ball straight to the other team has been the most frustrating part of the crows over the last 5 years.

Let's hope we can be contested beasts still, but keep it once we've got it.

 

[baldandbroke]

The Hawks have developed their game style on the back of a team that can kick. We've made some in roads into improving our kicking ability with the players we've traded in and drafted but we have a long way to go before we can dump our contested style of play.

I hope we have dumped it already. It doesn't work.

By the end of this year the guys that strategy was built around will be gone. I think we'll see a significant movement away from that this year. Obviously when there's a stoppage you still try and win the ball, but I reckon we'll have a greater emphasis on what we do when we win it and defending when we don't.

Agree with this. I think the type of midfielder we will target in the next 12 months (if we do) will reflect this change.

 

[Doctor B]

No, I hope we don't play a high contested possession game at all. Like I posted here, compare us to the Hawks and see if you can spot the difference.

Here are a few stats to get you started:

Contested Possesions
Top - Collingwood
Worst - GWS
Adelaide - 2nd
Hawthorn - 13th

Uncontested Possesions
Top - Hawks
Worst - GC
Adelaide - 15th

Disposal Efficiency %
Top - Hawks
Worst - GC
Adelaide - 17th

I agree with you, however the Hawks list is full of elite kicks from their brilliant use of top ten picks and trading in of players. PD leaving us and a pre-season under Pyke concentrating on skills won't, imo get us from 17th to close to Hawthorn in the DE% stat. Pyke has to formulate a game plan where we can work to the strength of the list at his disposal.

 

[Elite Crow]

By the end of this year the guys that strategy was built around will be gone. I think we'll see a significant movement away from that this year. Obviously when there's a stoppage you still try and win the ball, but I reckon we'll have a greater emphasis on what we do when we win it and defending when we don't.

As long as we keep adding skilful players we can move away from it.

 

[Elite Crow]

I agree with you, however the Hawks list is full of elite kicks from their brilliant use of top ten picks and trading in of players. PD leaving us and a pre-season under Pyke concentrating on skills won't, imo get us from 17th to close to Hawthorn in the DE% stat. Pike has to formulate a game plan where we can work to the strength of the list at his disposal.

Exactly, we just can't throw away contested play if we don't have the tools to play without it

 

[Elite Crow]

I hope we have dumped it already. It doesn't work.

Agree with this. I think the type of midfielder we will target in the next 12 months (if we do) will reflect this change.

It doesn't work against possibly the best team ever with elite disposal. You've set a pretty high benchmark there to suggest it doesn't work.

I believe it can work. How did we get 6th with no outside run and poor skills?

 

[baldandbroke]

It doesn't work against possibly the best team ever with elite disposal. You've set a pretty high benchmark there to suggest it doesn't work. I believe it can work. How did we get 6th with no outside run and poor skills?

By beating mostly average teams.

Hawks - beat us easily
West Coast - 1/1 hard to judge under the circumstances
Freo - beat us in our only game
Sydney - thrashed us

The teams we beat twice (I think):
Brisbane
Suns

I don't believe we can flick a switch and become Hawthorn - but I want to see us take some real steps this year towards being one of the feared teams. One of those steps is game style ... I reckon Walshy had us heading in the right direction - and I'm crossing my fingers that Pyke can strike out along his own path too, and set us on our way towards a premiership. That change in strategy will accommodate the loss of contested possession - and in 2016 trade period we should target a classy user of the ball over a bull. IMO.

 

[Squiba]

Honestly, if we crack the top 8 sides for DE then I'll be cheering.

Would prefer to have a squad that can both win contested ball and use it properly, best of both worlds.

 

[Sanders]

I couldn't care less about your petty little taunts Sanders, I'm not one for that sort of brainless bait. But at least you got a like from EC - that should make you puff your chest out good and hard. Well done.

you don't care like Alex doesn't care. only he makes more sense, most of the time at least

 

[baldandbroke]

you don't care like Alex doesn't care. only he makes more sense, most of the time at least

Who is Alex?

 

[Sanders]

Who is Alex?

Someone else who throws huge tantrums with a quivering bottom lip sniffing how much they don't care. Just like...

Wait a minute...

 

[Elite Crow]

By beating mostly average teams.

Hawks - beat us easily
West Coast - 1/1 hard to judge under the circumstances
Freo - beat us in our only game
Sydney - thrashed us

The teams we beat twice (I think):
Brisbane
Suns

I don't believe we can flick a switch and become Hawthorn - but I want to see us take some real steps this year towards being one of the feared teams. One of those steps is game style ... I reckon Walshy had us heading in the right direction - and I'm crossing my fingers that Pyke can strike out along his own path too, and set us on our way towards a premiership. That change in strategy will accommodate the loss of contested possession - and in 2016 trade period we should target a classy user of the ball over a bull. IMO.

Hawks - are elite and smashed everyone in the finals
West Coast- the only game that was hard to judge was our loss, the win was sensational. The fact you are trying to discount it shows you are trying to shape the results to fit your argument
Freo - very close game
Sydney- yes they did and we played shit everywhere

Freo and Sydney both play a contested game so that doesn't support your point only that in 2015 they were better.

We also beat Richmond and North who play a less of a contested game. Again not helping your point.

And on to the Hawks, they averaged 8 less contested possessions a game than us, the difference is they are huge on uncontested. So their contested possessions weren't far off ours.

I think we will change our game plan with the extra runners but we still need players to get the ball out to them, just as the Hawks do and the best at doing that was Danger.

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

Hawks - are elite and smashed everyone in the finals
West Coast- the only game that was hard to judge was our loss, the win was sensational. The fact you are trying to discount it shows you are trying to shape the results to fit your argument
Freo - very close game
Sydney- yes they did and we played shit everywhere

Freo and Sydney both play a contested game so that doesn't support your point only that in 2015 they were better.

We also beat Richmond and North who play a less of a contested game. Again not helping your point.

I think we will change our game plan with the extra runners but we still need players to get the ball out to them and the best at doing that was Danger.

It's annoying how Sydney have the wood on us after we had the wood on them for a good decade.

Their mids always kill us in contested ball, even when we are one of the best contested teams.

Time to change strategy playing them...

 

[baldandbroke]

Hawks - are elite and smashed everyone in the finals
West Coast- the only game that was hard to judge was our loss, the win was sensational. The fact you are trying to discount it shows you are trying to shape the results to fit your argument
Freo - very close game
Sydney- yes they did and we played shit everywhere

Freo and Sydney both play a contested game so that doesn't support your point only that in 2015 they were better.

We also beat Richmond and North who play a less of a contested game. Again not helping your point.

I think we will change our game plan with the extra runners but we still need players to get the ball out to them and the best at doing that was Danger.

I think the game we played against West Coast in Adelaide was a strange one. They were way down and we were way up ... Bit like the Geelong game in reverse.

We did beat Richmond and North well, but they weren't really contenders were they?

I'm looking forward to seeing our changes in personnel, structure and strategy under Pyke.

I hope it is a less contested style, but maybe we need a transition period ... We will see.