Which clubs are in more trouble (Age wise) - 2016 edition

[Great8]

Probably the Hawks. Those 5 are absolute top shelf, and a couple of them are likely not to ever be replaced properly as they are dead set champions.

 

[The Swert]

I genuinely think that 2016 is the last chance for the Hawks and Dockers for a while. Cats already fell away this year and I think the Roos will do the same this year.

I don't think age will hurt GWS or Essendon so much. They have youngsters who will step up.

Adelaide, Port, Richmond and Collingwood all look ambitious. They have decent teams despite being young and those oldies won't be hard to replace.
(Dixon will help Port's future a lot)

 

[MaddAdam]

From another thread I think we all know that Will Bill is protesting way too much about how much trouble North are in.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

If we'd been sacrificing draft picks to fuel this current tilt, we'd be in real trouble when the older blokes go, but we haven't, so we aren't.

Got three picks in the top 30 this year. Had two picks inside top 25 last year. Have never not had a first rounder in the Scott era.

Of course there will 're-adjustment when blokes retire, but isn't going to be one of those situations where we suddenly have to be putting out a team of kids.

Our most important player is Goldy and he's 27. Our core onball unit has many years in them.

We're also bringing guys like Brown, Turner and Garner through and getting them tons of finals experience.

Sure, someone like Boomer Harvey is impossible to replace like for like.

But if you believed BigFooty you'd think we're going to struggle to field a team.

Our list management has been very adroit. We've nailed free agency and while blokes have left, none of the departures have left major holes.

Guys like Gibson and Hale had great success at Hawthorn. But Hale leaving hasn't exactly harmed our ruck work onfield.

Levi Greenwood left and our midfield didn't miss a beat. In fact, it improved significantly as we slotted in Shaun Higgins (AA squad) into that spot. And we used the pick we got for Levi on another tall defender so when Thompson does go, we've been prepping young blokes for a while to replace him.

If we'd been trading out picks to get free agents like Waitey who will only be there for a short period, yep, there'd be storm clouds ahead.

But simply isn't what happened. And anyway, we can simply recruit an FA to fill a hole if required.

(I also love the quintessential BF double think on Daniel Wells. If a North supporter puts him forward as someone who can give us extra pace and class next year, people say with justification that he's played barely any footy in the last two years and presuming he will be able to deliver sustained quality footy next season is very risky.

Yet then when people want to do the North is too old thing, Wells is always held up as if he's the lynchpin of the team and if we ever found ourselves without him, we'd be screwed.

It can't be both at once)

 

[telsor]

If we'd been sacrificing draft picks to fuel this current tilt, we'd be in real trouble when the older blokes go, but we haven't, so we aren't.

Got three picks in the top 30 this year. Had two picks inside top 25 last year. Have never not had a first rounder in the Scott era.

and how have you secured these picks?

Of course there will 're-adjustment when blokes retire, but isn't going to be one of those situations where we suddenly have to be putting out a team of kids.

In the next few years, you need to find half a dozen quality players from outside your 22 to replace these old guys...That's a fair 're-adjustment'.

(I also love the quintessential BF double think on Daniel Wells. If a North supporter puts him forward as someone who can give us extra pace and class next year, people say with justification that he's played barely any footy in the last two years and presuming he will be able to deliver sustained quality footy next season is very risky.

Yet then when people want to do the North is too old thing, Wells is always held up as if he's the lynchpin of the team and if we ever found ourselves without him, we'd be screwed.

It can't be both at once)

As opposed to the north version of having it both ways where several of your players are stars when you want to talk up how strong your team is, but easily replaceable when their age is mentioned?

 

[TedDougChris]

Dogs have Murphy, Morris, Boyd, Minson and Picken to replace in the coming years. Need to stagger the transitions, with Boyd, Minson at the end of 2016 - possibly with Morris as well. Murphy hopefully will play for another couple and form will dictate things for Picken (youngest of the list - I think).

We're not really sure what our ruck policy is, so I have no idea whether it will be easy or difficult to replace Will. We didn't use him much this year, but he played well in some of the game he did play (GWS and Adelaide for example) - but he has clear weaknesses that don't fit into our current structure and game plan.

I would have said Picken/Boyd were the two easiest to replace 12 months ago, but both shifted roles and had career best years. I think we have the midfield depth to replace Picken, although his toughness will be missed. We're trialling a few new kids in the backline for the time when the old guys in the back line go - but it's difficult to replace the quality and experience of Boyd - let alone Murphy and Morris.

Morris gives away a lot of size now, so need to play him on the smaller forwards, not the giants. Whether we can draft guys to allow us to do this is another question.

Murphy is borderline irreplaceable.

So in short, while we have a lot of talent coming through - it'll be hard to replace the quality of Murphy and Morris - with the other guys hopefully being a little easier. Hopefully the improvement in the kids over the entire field allows us to cover for the loss of a few champions from the side...

 

[WWSD]

Probably the Hawks. Those 5 are absolute top shelf, and a couple of them are likely not to ever be replaced properly as they are dead set champions.

Both Hodge and Mitchell are in Hawthorn's top 5 players of all-time. We will be in a world of pain when they retire.

 

[fishardansin]

If we'd been sacrificing draft picks to fuel this current tilt, we'd be in real trouble when the older blokes go, but we haven't, so we aren't.

Got three picks in the top 30 this year. Had two picks inside top 25 last year. Have never not had a first rounder in the Scott era.

Of course there will 're-adjustment when blokes retire, but isn't going to be one of those situations where we suddenly have to be putting out a team of kids.

Our most important player is Goldy and he's 27. Our core onball unit has many years in them.

We're also bringing guys like Brown, Turner and Garner through and getting them tons of finals experience.

Sure, someone like Boomer Harvey is impossible to replace like for like.

But if you believed BigFooty you'd think we're going to struggle to field a team.

Our list management has been very adroit. We've nailed free agency and while blokes have left, none of the departures have left major holes.

Guys like Gibson and Hale had great success at Hawthorn. But Hale leaving hasn't exactly harmed our ruck work onfield.

Levi Greenwood left and our midfield didn't miss a beat. In fact, it improved significantly as we slotted in Shaun Higgins (AA squad) into that spot. And we used the pick we got for Levi on another tall defender so when Thompson does go, we've been prepping young blokes for a while to replace him.

If we'd been trading out picks to get free agents like Waitey who will only be there for a short period, yep, there'd be storm clouds ahead.

But simply isn't what happened. And anyway, we can simply recruit an FA to fill a hole if required.

(I also love the quintessential BF double think on Daniel Wells. If a North supporter puts him forward as someone who can give us extra pace and class next year, people say with justification that he's played barely any footy in the last two years and presuming he will be able to deliver sustained quality footy next season is very risky.

Yet then when people want to do the North is too old thing, Wells is always held up as if he's the lynchpin of the team and if we ever found ourselves without him, we'd be screwed.

It can't be both at once)

I don't see the quality coming through. You guys have invested a lot into 2015 and 2016 because you can't just turn over a list like that (I just clicked my fingers).

I'm not surprised that there will be some good things going on at North and those outside it don't know/care about it. However, its not like other sides don't have good things coming through.

 

[MaddAdam]

and how have you secured these picks?



In the next few years, you need to find half a dozen quality players from outside your 22 to replace these old guys...That's a fair 're-adjustment'.



As opposed to the north version of having it both ways where several of your players are stars when you want to talk up how strong your team is, but easily replaceable when their age is mentioned?

We have them because we haven't traded then out. We basically swapped Bastinac - plays in an area we have covered, inside mids - for Anderson, who has attributes we need in classy ball use and pace. We then traded our first rounder down two spots and sent out next years 2nd rounder in order to get two more picks in the early - mid second round. It is a very nice piece of management.

And yes, we do need to replace guys who leave like any other team. As I said, by not trading picks, we've been doing that.

People seem to think that we're not factoring this stuff in to our list management. But take our backline. We have relied on Grima, Thompson and Firrito for a long time. But we've successfully moved Robbie Tarrant back and that covered Narni. We drafted two big guys who can play KPD with our first two picks last year. The replacements have already been drafted. And if needs be, we can FA soneone.

You clearly didn't read my post because I said that someone like Boomer Harvey is irreplaceable like for like. Kayne Turner sure is a goer and has lots of experience for a young bloke and he'll slot into Boomer's spot, but he'll never be Boomer.

The point is, again, a lot of people, many of them Richmond supporters still smarting over their "top end talent" being taken apart by North, act like there's no clear and well resourced in terms of picks and FA opportunity succession planning underway and in action.

 

[MaddAdam]

I don't see the quality coming through. You guys have invested a lot into 2015 and 2016 because you can't just turn over a list like that (I just clicked my fingers).

I'm not surprised that there will be some good things going on at North and those outside it don't know/care about it. However, its not like other sides don't have good things coming through.

If you don't see the quality in the youth you are a poor judge of football talent. All the more puzzling as North have a very good record over Essendon of late - last five or so in a row? - and guys like Brown, Turner and McDonald have been very good in those. Taylor Garner is also coming along brilliantly.

You say we've "invested" heavily in 2015/16. We didn't trade a single player or draft pick to get Dal Santo (on paper we let Delaney go to the Saints "for Dal" but he was surplus to requirements anyway) Waite or Higgins. Higgins has a good few years ahead of him anyway.

Essendon though have age issues, and one that could cause pain. Watson is on the decline and may yet be cooked. When he goes there's a big midfield hole looming.

Heppell is an accumulator rather than an inside beast and Goddard doesn't seem to spend much time there and the quality of inside mid falls away very rapidly after that.

I appreciate you have two top five picks to address that immediately but insise mids can take a bit of time to build the size and endurance to really go with the best straight away.

Even guys like Selwoos and Wines who hit the ground running as inside mids as rookies came into existing high quality midfields.

The Bomber draftees won't have that luxury.

 

[TwentyNine]

We have a lot of older players (big observation I know) but do have a lot of players in the early-mid parts of their career who have a decent amount of experience in them. I'd say it's more a side like Hawthorn who has little in the way of developed replacements for the likes of Hodge, Mitchell etc that is in "trouble", though of course unlike us they've had the success that makes getting into that kind of "trouble" worthwhile.

 

[Bardo State]

Hawthorn probably the most precarious due to the sheer quality and fact that a few of them are well into their 30s already.

North and Freo have one, maybe two years before they need to add serious talent to their lists again. And no I'm not interested in hearing how awesome Turner and Garner are. There was even more hype around Harper, Atley and Black. The kids on the list aren't going to step up and cover for a third of the side dropping away. Quality just isn't there yet.

 

[Hawkas1988]

Of course the Hawks are in trouble. You can't simply replace out and out champions like Hodge and Mitchell. They are all-time greats of this club. Burgoyne has been amazing in his 6 years at the club and his loss (especially in big matches and moments) will be just as noticeable as the other 2.

Gibson is our rock in defense and Lewis is a gun but still has a few good years in him.

After 3 flags in a row I expect to drop off when these champs retire. Will it hurt? I guess but we made the most of this period which will make the fall much easier to deal with compared to say a Fremantle.

Any Hawks fans that say we aren't going to feel a fair drop in performances or ladder positions are kidding themselves.

 

[MaddAdam]

Hawthorn will feel the retirements but I suspect that four flags - so far - from those guys should see their fans through any drop off.

 

[evo]

North are fine. Petrie and Harvey have 3 more years in them at minimum.

 

[nicko74]

North are fine. Petrie and Harvey have 3 more years in them at minimum.

Yeah you might be right. Harvey 2 and Petrie 1. That's 3 years

 

[MaddAdam]

North are fine. Petrie and Harvey have 3 more years in them at minimum.

Drew will play next year and then goes. I think Brown will be better as an individual in the number one forward role, but whether the overall structure and scoring power of the forward holds up is what counts.

Boomer I can easily see playing 2017 if he stays injury free.

 

[Watson_my_mind]

Both Hodge and Mitchell are in Hawthorn's top 5 players of all-time. We will be in a world of pain when they retire.

Can I hear your top ten hawks of all time in your opinion please?

 

[ReaperX]

Hawthorn probably the most precarious due to the sheer quality and fact that a few of them are well into their 30s already.

North and Freo have one, maybe two years before they need to add serious talent to their lists again. And no I'm not interested in hearing how awesome Turner and Garner are. There was even more hype around Harper, Atley and Black. The kids on the list aren't going to step up and cover for a third of the side dropping away. Quality just isn't there yet.

North Melbourne fans simply do not understand this concept, I'm afraid.

Have been trying to tell them this on the "who will finish higher next year Richmond, Bulldogs or North?" thread.

It just does not sink in.

 

[Suma Magic]

Only on Big Footy is age more important than actually being any good.

Only on Bigfooty do people claim that people are arguing that being young is better than being good, when in fact no one is making that argument.

Every year the same moronic comments

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

We didn't really need a thread to announce the window is closing fast on North and Fremantle, or that successful teams like Hawthirn and Geelong still have some old blokes to replace. If being in their position is defined as In trouble, I'll order some of that please.

 

[Augustine]

Geelong's dynasty players got old and have all mostly retired or moved on for 2016 season (bar a few exceptions) and yet Geelong are gearing up for a flag challenge next season.

Don't be too surprised if after a 'mini-rebuild' Hawthorn or Freo are lining up in another granny in 2019!!!

Greater player power, academy/FS points and bidding, future pick trading, more sophisticated scouting, pickflation, free agency, more flexible trading, an 18 team competition, diluted talent pool, compromised drafts (concessions won't fully flush out for years), increased media scrutiny, and a new TV rights deal on the horizon have all combined to basically kill the premiership clock in my opinion.

 

[WWSD]

Can I hear your top ten hawks of all time in your opinion please?

1. Matthews
2. Dunstall
3. Hodge
4. Mitchell
5. Tuck
6. Hudson
7. C.Langford
8. Brereton
9. Moore
10. Platton

 

[indy nile]

North Melbourne fans simply do not understand this concept, I'm afraid.

Have been trying to tell them this on the "who will finish higher next year Richmond, Bulldogs or North?" thread.

It just does not sink in.

Every North fan knows that you can't just replace guys like Harvey and Petrie, we just dont think it'll be the end of days for our club when they do retire. We don't rely on the older blokes nearly as much as we used to

 

[MaddAdam]

North Melbourne fans simply do not understand this concept, I'm afraid.

Have been trying to tell them this on the "who will finish higher next year Richmond, Bulldogs or North?" thread.

It just does not sink in.

We've been adding very highly rated players in the positions we need through the draft, which is what Richmond supporters seem unable to process.

 

[Augustine]

How hard are these old campaigners gonna be to replace?

Harvey - impossible task, irreplaceable.

Petrie, Waite - our list is a little ****ed in the tall forward position I admit. Need to fix this and I don't know how. Big job for Ben Brown!

Gibson - he's s**t anyway to be frank, dime a dozen type, shouldn't be hard to replace.

Firrito - wonderful clubman and servant, but easily replaceable as a player (no offence Michael), MacMillan is pretty much like for like in my opinion

Dan Santo - We got him through free agency. Could we replace him that way too?

Wells - has barely played last 2 years, so it shouldn't be too hard to replace nobody. In all seriousness I have high hopes Anderson will eventually be our new Wells (albeit not as smooth moving).

Thompson - easy to replace. Tarrant, Durdin, Nielson, Tippett, Hansen... we're stocked up with KPDs

Look if I'm totally honest, we probably will see a bit of a drop off when these guys retire and there are problems - most particularly Boomer/Dal/Wells and Petrie/Waite are going to leave holes in two particular areas of our squad where we haven't got enough replacement talent within the existing squad.

But unfortunately for BigFooty, it's not going to be the massive collapse you all seem to think. Last year our team did "rely" on a few of these old guys (Boomer in particular) but mostly it was Goldy, Ziebell, Swallow, Cunnington, Atley, Wright, MacMillan, Tarrant, Brown, Thomas, Higgins, and Jacobs running the show. The core of the side are all in the prime of their careers. And yes we do have young talent as well even if you choose to not believe it exists. McDonald, Dumont, Garner, Turner, and Durdin in particular excite me, though you're perfectly at liberty to not rate them if you feel they will amount to nothing.

And don't forget about trading and free agency. That's the other way you can 'replace' players and is more important now than ever before. Our list is fine.