Banter Who will be Better in 2025, Collingwood or Carlton? Part 4

[doppleganger]

Not hard to find plenty of examples of close games where Nick has been dominant and lifted in Q4 to get a W for the Pies. He is a match winner.

Bit harder to find games where Cripps lifts in Q4 to get Carlton a W.

 

[Corn Cobbers]

Exhibit 7:
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Loving this trip down memory lane, what an orgy of Daicos greatness

Another dozen or so years of this on the menu too [emoji16]

On SM-A225F using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Fadge]

Exhibit 8:

 

[Fadge]

So there's the 8 I needed - so easy to find.

I'll stop there as I don't want to embarrass Paddy Cripps - he's been a Superstar, but simply not in the league of Nick Daicos.

You'll notice I neglected to mention possibly the greatest of them all - his heroics in the 2023 Grand Final. But there were so many matchwinners that day, I decided to stick to his clear standout matchwinning performances.

There will be more from 2022 and likely 2024 if I wanted to keep going, and I will if the Carlton faithful come up with more genuine matchwinning performances from Cripps.

But as it stands, I have highlighted 8 from a 3 year career from Daicos, compared to Walshy's 7 from a 12 year career from Cripps.

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

So there's the 8 I needed - so easy to find.

I'll stop there as I don't want to embarrass Paddy Cripps - he's been a Superstar, but simply not in the league of Nick Daicos.

You'll notice I neglected to mention possibly the greatest of them all - his heroics in the 2023 Grand Final. But there were so many matchwinners that day, I decided to stick to his clear standout matchwinning performances.

There will be more from 2022 and likely 2024 if I wanted to keep going, and I will if the Carlton faithful come up with more genuine matchwinning performances from Cripps.

But as it stands, I have highlighted 8 from a 3 year career from Daicos, compared to Walshy's 7 from a 12 year career from Cripps.

Uhhh I believe I provided 20 Fudger...

I'm waiting for the other 12...

 

[Fadge]

Uhhh I believe I provided 20 Fudger...

I'm waiting for the other 12...

And I corrected you - there was 7 in your list - the legitimate matchwinning performances were bolded.

So give me more from Cripps, and I will continue for Daicos.

I hope you now understand what a matchwinning performance actually looks like.

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

And I corrected you - there was 7 in your list - the legitimate matchwinning performances were bolded.

So give me more from Cripps, and I will continue for Daicos.

I hope you now understand what a matchwinning performance actually looks like.

7 based on what? Do I have to go find all the fluff match reports stating Cripps was dominant in them like you've done for Nicky or something?

20 was the number provided, you've given 8 for Daicgul so far

 

[carlton_99]

And I corrected you - there was 7 in your list - the legitimate matchwinning performances were bolded.

You cannot be a real person and be this arrogant. Why even engage in a conversation where you ask for something and then reject what is given outright because it doesn't suit your narrative.

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

You cannot be a real person and be this arrogant. Why even engage in a conversation where you ask for something and then reject what is given outright because it doesn't suit your narrative.

Based on quite literally nothing but his own opinion too... I guess I can just say Nicky wasn't a match winner in those games because I didn't think so?

 

[Fadge]

You cannot be a real person and be this arrogant. Why even engage in a conversation where you ask for something and then reject what is given outright because it doesn't suit your narrative.

Are you familiar with the 'reasonable person' test.

You go through and audit his tripe, and let me know how many of his 20 matches listed Cripps was a genuine 'matchwinner'?

 

[Fadge]

Based on quite literally nothing but his own opinion too... I guess I can just say Nicky wasn't a match winner in those games because I didn't think so?

You can say what you like.

If you don't believe Daicos was a matchwinner in any of those games, you're also concluding that Cripps has never been a matchwinner.

 

[carlton_99]

Are you familiar with the 'reasonable person' test.

You go through and audit his tripe, and let me know how many of his 20 matches listed Cripps was a genuine 'matchwinner'?

Once again I won't be rewatching 20 Carlton games to check - you asked for a list from that poster and they provided it. You reject them because it doesn't suit your narrative (i.e.., confirmation bias)

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

You can say what you like.

If you don't believe Daicos was a matchwinner in any of those games, you're also concluding that Cripps has never been a matchwinner.

No I just want to know what deems one a matchwinner? How have you determined Cripps was only a matchwinner in 7 of the 20 games provided?

Based on what appears to be your criteria I could easily make the argument all 20 fit the bill

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

20 - 8

Looks like Nicky has come in 2nd to the great man once again...

 

[doppleganger]

Uhhh I believe I provided 20 Fudger...

Playing 20 great games doesn't mean you are a match winner.

Having just 5 touches (2 being clangers) in Q4 against the Suns, whilst it was TDK, Kennedy and Curnow that did the damage is a supposed match winner example

Of Cripps top 20 games according to player ratings, 14 have been losses...players like Daicos, Petracca, Bont, Heeney, Neale it is only 4-5 losses for their best rated games, as they play well and lift to get their team a W.

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

Of Cripps top 20 games according to player ratings, 14 have been losses...players like Daicos, Petracca, Bont, Heeney, Neale it is only 4-5 losses for their best rated games, as they play well and lift to get their team a W.

This is the stupidest argument around. GAS played one of the greatest grand finals ever seen and his team lost... That doesn't take away from the individual players performance lmao.

Was this campaigner a 'matchwinner'?



Known as possibly the greatest of all time yet never managed to win a flag because his team was always a bit too shite while he was out there dominating week in and week out.

 

[doppleganger]

Once again I won't be rewatching 20 Carlton games to check - you asked for a list from that poster and they provided it. You reject them because it doesn't suit your narrative (i.e.., confirmation bias)

He didn't ask for games when Cripps played well, he asked for examples of games where Cripps was a match winner.

Has provided numerous examples where Daicos turned it on in Q4 in close games to get the Pies a win.

Walshy list games where Carlton win by 60 with a leg in the air and a dozen Baggers have a day out. That isn't an example of a player being a match winner.

 

[doppleganger]

This is the stupidest argument around. GAS played one of the greatest grand finals ever seen and his team lost... That doesn't take away from the individual players performance lmao.

To be a match winner, a player actually has to help wins the match for his or her team!!

There are no "match winners" playing for the losing team.

It really should be obvious

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

To be a match winner, a player actually has to help wins the match for his or her team!!

There are no "match winners" playing for the losing team.

It really should be obvious

No crap lmao. You were pointing out that Cripps isn't a match winner because some of his best games came in losses.

GAS was known as one of the most brilliant players to ever play and a match winner through and through yet even he had some absolutely monstrous games where his team still lost... Such as that grand final.

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

He didn't ask for games when Cripps played well, he asked for examples of games where Cripps was a match winner.

Has provided numerous examples where Daicos turned it on in Q4 in close games to get the Pies a win.

Walshy list games where Carlton win by 60 with a leg in the air and a dozen Baggers have a day out. That isn't an example of a player being a match winner.

There are games that Fudger provided in that list where Daicgul did SFA in the last quarter and wasn't even deemed BOG by his own coach lmao. So really no different to the list I provided...

 

[carlton_99]

He didn't ask for games when Cripps played well, he asked for examples of games where Cripps was a match winner.

Has provided numerous examples where Daicos turned it on in Q4 in close games to get the Pies a win.

Walshy list games where Carlton win by 60 with a leg in the air and a dozen Baggers have a day out. That isn't an example of a player being a match winner.

Cripps playing four quarters of high quality football is why a lot of the games go from being a tossup or loss to a more comfortable Carlton win. That in my eyes is still being a match winner. Turning it on in just one quarter in a close game doesn't make the performance more that of a matchwinner at all.

You previously used team record and players ratings which makes no sense. A lot of Cripps' best games came when Carlton were not a good team. If you swap Cripps for any of those other players and had them give a similar performance Carlton were still not going to win that game.

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

If we were just going off last quarter heroics we could chuck in Cripps game vs Port where he had 9 touches, 5 score involvements and 2 goals in the last quarter to turn the game on its head...

But then again, he only had 22 touches for the match and really didn't do a lot before that.

I'd take the 4qtr performance any day if I'm talking match winners. Fat spuds like Jake Stringer can turn it on for a quarter or two but nobody would ever hold him in equal stead as actual guns like Crippa.

 

[doppleganger]

No crap lmao. You were pointing out that Cripps isn't a match winner because some of his best games came in losses.

GAS was known as one of the most brilliant players to ever play and a match winner through and through yet even he had some absolutely monstrous games where his team still lost... Such as that grand final.

Ask yourself a question.

Would anyone list 89 GF as a game as an example of a game where GAS was the match winner?

Being a brilliant player or BOG doesn't make you a match winner.

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

Ask yourself a question.

Would anyone list 89 GF as a game as an example of a game where GAS was the match winner?

Being a brilliant player or BOG doesn't make you a match winner.

Playing brilliant footy or being BOG in a win equates to being a match winner. Generally without that players contribution your team likely loses the game.

 

[doppleganger]

Playing brilliant footy or being BOG in a win equates to being a match winner. Generally without that players contribution your team likely loses the game.

When your team belts another team by 10+ goals there ain't a "match winner".

A match winner is someone who is good all game and then imposes himself in Q4 to win close games for his team. They step up with big plays, dominate the ball, kicks the crucial goal, gives direct goal assists etc.

GAS was brilliant in the 89 GF, but he wasn't the match winner.