Expansion Why AFL fails miserably in Queensland

[windyhill]

Things were ok when they were gift wrapped flags.

 

[boondy]

Because they had crappy coaches and recruiting in brisbanes case after Mathews. GCS should have given Mckenna at least 1 more year

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

That is crap, many RL people have had a huge chip on their shoulder for a very long time regarding AF, they just look for excuses not to like it, if it not this one, it is fumbleball or gAyFL or too many rules or not enough etc etc.

This is spot on.

It's like AFL fans who are determined to hate soccer no matter what

 

[GumbyRules]

I'm an ex RL fan now AFL. I was hooked the first game I say live.. ALF is not as good on TV as it is live... You get it only after

 

[RUNVS]

I'm an ex RL fan now AFL. I was hooked the first game I say live.. ALF is not as good on TV as it is live... You get it only after

That is an advantage in many ways. In RL there is nothing really to be gained by going to the game as you can see everything you need to see on the TV however in the AFL the TV misses so much when it comes to what is happening around the ground.

 

[Colonial]

I'm an ex RL fan now AFL. I was hooked the first game I say live.. ALF is not as good on TV as it is live... You get it only after

Agree 100%
I liked aussie rules but it wasnt number 1 till i watched a game live at Spotless.

 

[NewMelbournian]

Queensland has produced many more AFL players than Victoria has produced NRL players. Enough people play the game for a decent number to get to the top level.

 

[Sausages]

Queensland has produced many more AFL players than Victoria has produced NRL players. Enough people play the game for a decent number to get to the top level.

Sure. It's just that almost every kid in Queensland can name 10 rugby league players before they can name 10 AFL players.

I love the perception, backed by figures, that assert things are going well in the expansion areas on a junior level participation.

In 10 minutes searching, I have found published academic articles indicating the reverse. (Lies, damn lies, and statistics, remember)
Equally, I have found published articles suggesting otherwise.
Conclusion is that every article has a purpose and an interest group[ to satisfy.

Thus I argue using my own experience of 35 years watching football in Queensland.

 

[fabulousphil]

Sure. It's just that almost every kid in Queensland can name 10 rugby league players before they can name 10 AFL players.

if that is the case and it may or may not be, how is it a suprise anyway, QLD is a RL state

I love the perception, backed by figures, that assert things are going well in the expansion areas on a junior level participation.

In 10 minutes searching, I have found published academic articles indicating the reverse. (Lies, damn lies, and statistics, remember)
Equally, I have found published articles suggesting otherwise.
.

Believe what you want, the grass roots has grown significantly compared to a generation ago and a generation before that, there is a genuine pathway for kids interested, one that was not really available to Dunstall or Frank Dunnell etc

QLD has around 50 players on AFL lists ATM, that is not nothing, that is a genuine presence.

 

[amos]

Queensland has produced many more AFL players than Victoria has produced NRL players. Enough people play the game for a decent number to get to the top level.

Simple reason to that is the migration of Victorians to Queensland, as opposed to the adverse.

FWIW, I've worked at 3 different primary schools in Brisbane in the past four years. Three have had NRL posts, none have had AFL posts. The AFL really is losing the battle here.

 

[CarterS]

Looking at the crowd figures, they stuck with Brisbane for a decent period after we stopped winning flags. Through 2008 most crowds were above 25K. Any team anywhere who have been down near the bottom for as long as we have would have drops across the board like we have. Financial position is not due to the market being unsustainable, it is down to poor management of the club over a good number of years.

It is not a battle between codes up here, there is plenty of room for both. When we were up we would consistently out draw the Broncos. I remember Sheeds saying once that they didn't build the Gabba big enough when they redeveloped it. Swings and roundabouts, we'll be fine.

Lynch wrote an article up here on the weekend saying if people think the game is in at its lowest up here, they can't have been here in the lowest parts of the 90s. He's right.

 

[amos]

The lowest part of the 90s was due to a number of reasons, one significant being that a Brisbane team was playing out of the Gold Coast at Carrara. Whether or not it's at it lowest ebb for me is a moot point. I think the significant factor is kids simply don't play Aussie Rules in schools like they do in Victoria, and even if their parents fork out $80 to do Auskick for 8 weeks, there's no goalposts at the schools anyway to feed the spark beyond that. I think there is no battle in the end. Just like NRL reigns in NSW, and Union reigns in the Private QLD schools, playing Australian Football in QLD will be limited to expat Victorian, SA, WA, and Tasmanian expats and their children.

 

[Sausages]

Goalposts?
GOALPOSTS?

Do you REALLY think the AFL can afford to chuck some goalposts in parks around Brisbane? Anyone would think they are Australia's Premier Sporting code!! That sort of an initiative would cost...well, tens of thousands of dollars!!

But it's a point well made - never, ever, ever seen kids play any sort of AFL game at a park up here. Ever, goalposts or not.

But wait, the game is ok up here - everyone says so!!

I can sleep soundly knowing that the measure of success is balance sheets, since that's pretty much all the counter evidence that has been posted. I know plenty of 10yr olds who judge the worth of a game by how much money the administrators received from broadcast rights deals. It's usually the first thing they ask....

 

[Sydney Bloods]

so you've never seen footy played ever, did you consider this is because the afl is trying to cut into the brisbane market?

or to you was there this mythical time when footy was the played in parks in brisbane and hence footys gone backwards?

the fact is prior to around 2008 the AFL did nothing to actually grow the game. spending money on local footy and developing it isn't magic beans.

and no a team in a city is not "growing the game" if that were true ice hockey, basketball and baseball would have taken over australia back in the 90's.
it takes both time and actual investment at the local level.

before we even get to goal posts the AFL should consider giving public schools a few sherrins. you'd be surprised what happens when a few kids want to play on the back oval and the P.E teacher tells them the only thing left is a sherrin.

kids don't reject it, they just play.

 

[Colonial]

I really wish traditionalists would stop lumping every northern club fan as an expat or child of one. Its a garbage comment just like most of this thread and funnily enough like most things the op starts.

 

[Sausages]

I really wish traditionalists would stop lumping every northern club fan as an expat or child of one. Its a garbage comment just like most of this thread and funnily enough like most things the op starts.

Sorry to wreck your sandcastles on the beach GG.

Cheers.

 

[SJ]

Goalposts?
GOALPOSTS?

Do you REALLY think the AFL can afford to chuck some goalposts in parks around Brisbane? Anyone would think they are Australia's Premier Sporting code!! That sort of an initiative would cost...well, tens of thousands of dollars!!

But it's a point well made - never, ever, ever seen kids play any sort of AFL game at a park up here. Ever, goalposts or not.

But wait, the game is ok up here - everyone says so!!

I can sleep soundly knowing that the measure of success is balance sheets, since that's pretty much all the counter evidence that has been posted. I know plenty of 10yr olds who judge the worth of a game by how much money the administrators received from broadcast rights deals. It's usually the first thing they ask....

Do you really think it's as easy as that?

 

[papabear]

I really wish traditionalists would stop lumping every northern club fan as an expat or child of one. Its a garbage comment just like most of this thread and funnily enough like most things the op starts.

Of course, there are also plenty of disillusioned union fans. Also there are quite a few genuine fans, just like there are genuine fans of the storm who don't buy into the code wars crap.

Again though, I find it odd that this code war thread is still not locked and that it was started by a union fan against AFL. I almost feel sad that the union troll isn't trolling rugby league any more, is that how far league has fallen that union trolls don't bother us anymore?

To the average league fan, union is a sin.

There are varying views on soccer and afl depending on peoples circumstance, but union is a sin.

 

[Colonial]

Sorry to wreck your sandcastles on the beach GG.

Cheers.

Well if you wish to tear down the como at least use facts

 

[bigleague]

Of course, there are also plenty of disillusioned union fans. Also there are quite a few genuine fans, just like there are genuine fans of the storm who don't buy into the code wars crap.

Again though, I find it odd that this code war thread is still not locked and that it was started by a union fan against AFL. I almost feel sad that the union troll isn't trolling rugby league any more, is that how far league has fallen that union trolls don't bother us anymore?

To the average league fan, union is a sin.

There are varying views on soccer and afl depending on peoples circumstance, but union is a sin.

think you mean is that how far union has fallen?

 

[Tassieboy]

Expansion into non-AFL states has been a waste of money I am afraid, you can't convince me with the ratings numbers they are pulling in NSW and QLD on a secondary digital channel that it is producing much in terms of broadcasting revenue, the cost in terms of the division of revenue and the extra $20m+ per year in grants to the northern states has been money invested that hasn't returned much to date. AFL would likely have made more of a return blowing the money on the races.

I'm all for supporting clubs that are struggling or need help but we are putting clubs in markets which are not sustainable and the AFL has been bending/breaking the rules and the spirit of competition in an attempt to create sustained artificial success in order that the house of cards doesn't come crumbling down. Even the Swans, who have been in Sydney for a long time now, just wouldn't survive even a 10 year slump without the AFL going into life support mode and the draft is designed to create long slumps with the denial of talent over a prolonged period.

We have different issues in Victoria, largely we do not have clean stadiums, the AFL itself competes against clubs and the AFL forced clubs to abandon stadiums that suited their supporter base, but these issues are easy to resolve if you have time and resources, we are just spending a fortune on trying to convince people in NSW and QLD to adopt the game.

It is okay if AFL isn't played in every state, it is okay if rugby isn't either. Tasmania should never have been ignored for the sake of a non-football state or territory.

I don't understand what's interesting about watching QLD teams play in a state who don't give a stuff. Gold Coast are just a plastic franchise and Brisbane are just a weak, albeit successful version of Fitzroy. WA and SA teams are great because they bring passion and love to the game.

But then again, I'm a toff who only really enjoys Victorian games. So go ahead.

 

[JoondalupJ]

Sure. It's just that almost every kid in Queensland can name 10 rugby league players before they can name 10 AFL players.

I love the perception, backed by figures, that assert things are going well in the expansion areas on a junior level participation.

In 10 minutes searching, I have found published academic articles indicating the reverse. (Lies, damn lies, and statistics, remember)
Equally, I have found published articles suggesting otherwise.
Conclusion is that every article has a purpose and an interest group[ to satisfy.

Thus I argue using my own experience of 35 years watching football in Queensland.

Why AFL will always have troubles in strong Rugby states is very simple.

The life blood of football clubs at this level is the supporters and the members,

In Victoria and other Australian rules traditional states, when the clubs rebuild or fall over for several seasons
people stay with them. Supporters and members don't shrink away. At least the majority won't .

I wonder how Gold Coast or Brisbane or GWS or even Sydney ( remember the swans have been financed back into contention on a few occasions)
so I wonder how those four clubs would survive in a Richmond's scenario or St Kilda scenario or the dogs, these clubs perennial just miss out clubs or they are down the bottom, for decades. If you don't have fanatic followers of football and members and people who just worship the tribe they belong to , and their club is not just a football club it is your family almost, in a footy cultural sense , you cannot sustain success.

In QLD and NSW I'd suggest the tribal feelings in those states is for Rugby League clubs.

I know it took my club to win a flag 36 years, it has been up and down and in the doldrums on many occasions before and after that.

Footscray won the flag in 1954, I think they played one more GF since and lost to Hawthorn 1961.

1954 was 61 years ago, but I know long term Doggie people now, in my age brackett, that never ever stopped loving that club.

It is so palpable to other Victorians, even, we who live interstate now , that Footscray feeling , that I don't think there
would be a Victorian Aussie rules follower who wouldn't love to see the dogs win a flag before any other interstate team did.

But interstate traditional football states that is , have already broken into the statistics of GF's, but WA and SA and eventually
Tasmania are a different kettle of fish totally to QLD and NSW. They are Rugby states in the sense that Vic is a Aussie rules state.

The expansion was one of the worst mistakes the AFL ever made. As TV policy and watching change dramatically over the next
few years I feel that the TV rights thing will not mean what it has.

I wonder where the Giants or GC17 will be if in the next 10 years one of them wins a flag then doesn't win another one for 30 years al la Collingwood
late 50,s to 1990.

Swans and Lions should have been left alone in their states. Its a pity but its true.They will never over take Rugby league.

And the way the AFL has changed things to the detriment of the game in some instances, could see the NSW/QLD expat traditional state
football fans, give it the bullet after 5 years of failure , and if they are expats, they will have a Melb or WA or SA club anyway.

 

[the PILL]

Amateur AFL footy seemed pretty strong on my last Gold Coast visit... My friends 3 sons all play and the turnout to junior footy was arguably a bit better than some vic country leagues... It's a little different though

My brother inlaw is a good example of an open minded bi-fan, plays union but his boy is gravitating to afl after being taken to the MCG last year for a Game... the only person who suffers is my sister in footy season... muhaaha

 

[SJ]

Amateur AFL footy seemed pretty strong on my last Gold Coast visit... My friends 3 sons all play and the turnout to junior footy was arguably a bit better than some vic country leagues... It's a little different though

My brother inlaw is a good example of an open minded bi-fan, plays union but his boy is gravitating to afl after being taken to the MCG last year for a Game... the only person who suffers is my sister in footy season... muhaaha

 

[Sausages]

Oh look, another article, but this time speaking of indigenous opportunities....

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-10-09/afl-indigenous-player-numbers-dropping/5796048

C'mon flag bearers of the administration!! Step right up