Why can't North afford to bottom out?

Remove this Banner Ad

Rod Stroker

Hall of Famer
Oct 9, 2003
34,361
24,552
Singapore / 30,000 feet
AFL Club
North Melbourne
Other Teams
Eagles (NFL), Suns (NBA)
We definitely have deficiencies but people who think North are bottoming out haven't watched many of our games. Won 6 games this year (including smashing Adelaide), and lost 5 more by under a goal with one of the biggest injury lists in the league. We are far from a flag-quality list at the moment but I can't see us bottoming out any time soon.
This man knows his stuff
 

Rod Stroker

Hall of Famer
Oct 9, 2003
34,361
24,552
Singapore / 30,000 feet
AFL Club
North Melbourne
Other Teams
Eagles (NFL), Suns (NBA)
For who? A great many Fitzroy supporters don't see it that way at all. Head down to the Brunswick Street Oval this afternoon and see and hear why.
Would you have preferred that the Lions merged with us and kept some of your Fitzroy identify in Melbourne in the AFL? Or are you happy with the way it turned out merging with Brisbane?
 

Log in to remove this ad.

Roylion

Moderator
Oct 17, 2000
14,121
10,478
Melbourne
AFL Club
Brisbane Lions
Other Teams
Fitzroy Football Club
were you happy with the Fitzroy Merging with Brisbane?
They didn't merge. The Bears rebranded to the Lions. However I'm a Brisbane Lions member and supporter because of their resemblance to Fitzroy and their commemoration / celebration of Fitzroy's AFL heritage within their own club. No other AFL club does that.

Would you of been happy for Fitzroy to merge with North in 1996?
It depends what the merger was going to look like and how much of Fitzroy's identity was going to be preserved. Had the new club looked like North Melbourne, then I wouldn't have supported it. I would have probably being happier with a club called the "North Melbourne Lions" (and rebranded with the Fitzroy Lion emblem) rather than the "North Fitzroy Kangaroos". The first name would have implied a greater Fitzroy presence in the new club.
 

Freomaniac

Brownlow Medallist
May 3, 2007
21,326
10,686
Parts Unknown
AFL Club
Fremantle
Other Teams
Man City, Valencia, Lazio, Panthers
They didn't merge. The Bears rebranded to the Lions. However I'm a Brisbane Lions member and supporter because of their resemblance to Fitzroy and their commemoration / celebration of Fitzroy's AFL heritage within their own club. No other AFL club does that.



It depends what the merger was going to look like and how much of Fitzroy's identity was going to be preserved. Had the new club looked like North Melbourne, then I wouldn't have supported it. I would have probably being happier with a club called the "North Melbourne Lions" (and rebranded with the Fitzroy Lion emblem) rather than the "North Fitzroy Kangaroos". The first name would have implied a greater Fitzroy presence in the new club.
See and this is another thing that needs to be brought up......

Say it was North Melbourne Lions, you would assumed that they play most of their games at Docklands.

Considering if the Merger happened in 1996, Say from 1996-2003, would this North Melbourne Lions play "Home" games at Carltons home ground in Princes Park/Optus oval/Ikon Park?
 

Freomaniac

Brownlow Medallist
May 3, 2007
21,326
10,686
Parts Unknown
AFL Club
Fremantle
Other Teams
Man City, Valencia, Lazio, Panthers
Yeah, shame on us for wanting to continue the careers of as many Fitzroy players as possible.
Well you Let John Blakey Play for your club for a long time and he is an Ex-Fitzroy player.

Imagine if Frematle merged with North Melbourne.

North Melbourne Dockers has a nice Ring to it lol
 

Roylion

Moderator
Oct 17, 2000
14,121
10,478
Melbourne
AFL Club
Brisbane Lions
Other Teams
Fitzroy Football Club
See and this is another thing that needs to be brought up......

Say it was North Melbourne Lions, you would assumed that they play most of their games at Docklands.

Considering if the Merger happened in 1996, Say from 1996-2003, would this North Melbourne Lions play "Home" games at Carltons home ground in Princes Park/Optus oval/Ikon Park?
North Melbourne's home ground was the MCG from 1985–2005. Fitzroy's was the Western Oval from 1994-1996. Why would the merged club have played at Princes Park?
 

Freomaniac

Brownlow Medallist
May 3, 2007
21,326
10,686
Parts Unknown
AFL Club
Fremantle
Other Teams
Man City, Valencia, Lazio, Panthers
North Melbourne's home ground was the MCG from 1985–2005. Fitzroy's was the Western Oval from 1994-1996. Why would the merged club have played at Princes Park?
Yeah North played a lot of home games at the MCG. So did many other sides before 2000. Princes Park is located in Carlton North. Which is North of Melbourne.

Saying that, North Should be playing the occasional home game there to be honest.

No disrepect to North, they are not the biggest crowd pullers at this time. 20,000 in an 25-30,000 seat Princes park is better than 20,000 in a 55,000 seat Docklands.
 

Roylion

Moderator
Oct 17, 2000
14,121
10,478
Melbourne
AFL Club
Brisbane Lions
Other Teams
Fitzroy Football Club
OK. What point are you trying to make exactly? The North Fitzroy Kangaroos would have an opportunity to incrase their membership base and hence their supporter base. Princes Park is no longer an AFL venue.
 

Freomaniac

Brownlow Medallist
May 3, 2007
21,326
10,686
Parts Unknown
AFL Club
Fremantle
Other Teams
Man City, Valencia, Lazio, Panthers
OK. What point are you trying to make exactly? The North Fitzroy Kangaroos would have an opportunity to increase their membership base and hence their supporter base. Princes Park is no longer an AFL venue.
Say if Princes Park was an AFL venue and was upgraded to AFL standard, would anyone benefited?
 

(Log in to remove this ad.)

Rob

Brownlow Medallist
Nov 8, 2000
29,134
15,883
South of the river
AFL Club
Fremantle
Other Teams
Peel Thunder
Yeah North played a lot of home games at the MCG. So did many other sides before 2000. Princes Park is located in Carlton North. Which is North of Melbourne.

Saying that, North Should be playing the occasional home game there to be honest.

No disrepect to North, they are not the biggest crowd pullers at this time. 20,000 in an 25-30,000 seat Princes park is better than 20,000 in a 55,000 seat Docklands.
The problem is that a game getting 20k at Docklands would only get 10k at Princes Park.

That's why clubs abandoned it in the first place.
 

Lemma

Premiership Player
Jun 4, 2010
4,190
1,236
Fogarty St
AFL Club
North Melbourne
Also that it would cost heaps of money to get it up to a standard that is anywhere near Docklands, and it is less accessible. And AFL owns Docklands now
 

Freomaniac

Brownlow Medallist
May 3, 2007
21,326
10,686
Parts Unknown
AFL Club
Fremantle
Other Teams
Man City, Valencia, Lazio, Panthers
Also that it would cost heaps of money to get it up to a standard that is anywhere near Docklands, and it is less accessible. And AFL owns Docklands now
your point???

Think of how much money the Vic Government poured into Kardinia Parks upgrades.

Despite some parts of that ground heritage listed, surely you can being Princes park up to 30-35,000?

Also Cats make more money getting 36,000 at Geelong than 50,000 at Docklands.
 

Kwality

Brownlow Medallist
Aug 14, 2011
27,374
10,128
Tootgarook
AFL Club
West Coast
Other Teams
Renault F1
All clubs can decide their own fate?

.... early in the 2019 season, Scott is exited. At the same time, North Melbourne chairman Ben Buckley decides the chief executive officer and general manager of football, Carl Dilena and Cam Joyce, will also be departing.
Financial arrangements pertaining to Scott, Dilena and assistant coach Leigh Tudor, who has also parted, will tally about $1.5 million on the 2020 books.

 

Lemma

Premiership Player
Jun 4, 2010
4,190
1,236
Fogarty St
AFL Club
North Melbourne
your point???
Think of how much money the Vic Government poured into Kardinia Parks upgrades.
Despite some parts of that ground heritage listed, surely you can being Princes park up to 30-35,000?

Also Cats make more money getting 36,000 at Geelong than 50,000 at Docklands.
But the point is the AFL doesn't need the ground for games, so why spend money increasing the capacity.
Docklands and the MCG can handle 4 Melb (Metro) games a week between them.
As AFLW gets more popular, Princes Park may be in line for some development then.
 

Kwality

Brownlow Medallist
Aug 14, 2011
27,374
10,128
Tootgarook
AFL Club
West Coast
Other Teams
Renault F1
AFL headquarters has been an interested, and occasionally concerned, observer of the North Melbourne goings-on this year.
That the AFL needs to, after 2021 when deals to play games in Tasmania by North Melbourne (Hobart) and Hawthorn (Launceston) expire, finally and emphatically resolve its own business strategy in the Apple Isle is both a worrying and exciting backdrop for the Roos as they attempt to work their way out of their latest period of uncertainty.
There is clearly a deal to be made for North in Tasmania, a potentially lucrative one which could see the club maintain an 11 "home" game arrangement in Melbourne as well as servicing eight or nine matches in Hobart and Launceston.

WHY?
 

Engimal v3

Premium Platinum
Sep 21, 2017
5,021
9,489
AFL Club
North Melbourne
AFL headquarters has been an interested, and occasionally concerned, observer of the North Melbourne goings-on this year.
That the AFL needs to, after 2021 when deals to play games in Tasmania by North Melbourne (Hobart) and Hawthorn (Launceston) expire, finally and emphatically resolve its own business strategy in the Apple Isle is both a worrying and exciting backdrop for the Roos as they attempt to work their way out of their latest period of uncertainty.
There is clearly a deal to be made for North in Tasmania, a potentially lucrative one which could see the club maintain an 11 "home" game arrangement in Melbourne as well as servicing eight or nine matches in Hobart and Launceston.

WHY?
"Can these new leaders stop a scenario that no one from either the AFL nor North Melbourne has suggested will happen?"

I reckon they might, Damo.
 

telsor

Hall of Famer
Aug 29, 2004
32,308
30,493
Here
AFL Club
Richmond
Other Teams
Habs
"Can these new leaders stop a scenario that no one from either the AFL nor North Melbourne has suggested will happen?"

I reckon they might, Damo.
Do you really think nobody at the AFL has considered this potential solution to the 'Tasmania problem'?

How is your women's team structured again?
 

SimpkinByTheDockOfTheBay

Don't Get Cut
Aug 21, 2018
15,553
36,051
AFL Club
North Melbourne
Do you really think nobody at the AFL has considered this potential solution to the 'Tasmania problem'?

How is your women's team structured again?
The AFL would defo like us playing 6/8 games in Tassie.

It isn't going to happen though as our members won't cop it.

And having no debt, they don't have the traditional leverage over us.
 

telsor

Hall of Famer
Aug 29, 2004
32,308
30,493
Here
AFL Club
Richmond
Other Teams
Habs
The AFL would defo like us playing 6/8 games in Tassie.

It isn't going to happen though as our members won't cop it.

And having no debt, they don't have the traditional leverage over us.

Debt isn't the leverage.. Revenue is.

If the AFL made a few million in 'disequal funding' dependent on moving, throw in a few years of AWFUL fixturing (even just a private conversation that this would happen)...leverage achieved. Fans not liking it doesn't really matter at the end of the day (yeah, they could slow it down, but eventually it'd be 'move or die').


I doubt this would happen, but don't kid yourself that the AFL doesn't have substantial leverage over *ALL* clubs, and the poorer ones more than most.
 

SimpkinByTheDockOfTheBay

Don't Get Cut
Aug 21, 2018
15,553
36,051
AFL Club
North Melbourne
Debt isn't the leverage.. Revenue is.

If the AFL made a few million in 'disequal funding' dependent on moving, throw in a few years of AWFUL fixturing (even just a private conversation that this would happen)...leverage achieved. Fans not liking it doesn't really matter at the end of the day (yeah, they could slow it down, but eventually it'd be 'move or die').


I doubt this would happen, but don't kid yourself that the AFL doesn't have substantial leverage over *ALL* clubs, and the poorer ones more than most.
Debt is the key leverage. They threaten to withdraw the guarantee and you're at the mercy - what the did to Fitzroy, what they've done before.

But yes, revenue is vital as well. Hence appointment of revenue focused CEO in Amarfio.

But they can't suddenly make disequal funding on moving for one club, it doesn't work like that. And we don't even get the most disequal of the Vic clubs.

As for awful fixturing, well, it would be hard for them to do worse than they have over the years.

North MEMBERS not liking it is fundamental - simply put we need to vote to approve any move and it simply won't happen.

Of course the AFL has leverage, if they wanted to hey, they could even do the mighty Tigers a mischief despite your 50 billion members.

But at the end of the day, they're not going to straight up kill a club again, they learned that lesson, and the Gold Coast thing showed that buying off clubs, or at least ours, won't work.

St Kilda is the one to watch ... loaded with debt, get the most disequal funding and basically just hoping their mate Gil keeps the tap on.

If they current recruiting load up doesn't work and they have a few more sh*t years onfield, will get quite interesting, especially once Gil gone.
 

Remove this Banner Ad

Top Bottom