Aboriginal & TSI Why have there been so few Indigenous captains in VFL/AFL history?

[tenderwarrior]

Graham Farmer - Geelong (1965-67)
Gavin Wanganeen - Port Adelaide (1997-2000)
Michael Long - Essendon (1999)
Chris Johnson - Brisbane (2007)
Adam Goodes - Sydney (2009-12)
Steven May - Gold Coast (2017-)

Six. Just six indigenous captains in a league that has spanned more than 120 years...

Or 5 in the last 20 years (for a combined 10 years of captaincy).

20 seasons equals a potential 335 years of captaincy, if all teams had only one Captain at a time.

10 out of 335 equals bang on 3%, about right in terms of per population.

I know some teams having multiple captains makes the above inaccurate, but it probably shows that in the modern AFL era it is probably not the issue it used to be.

 

[Collins-Langford-Ayres]

Compare it with the WAFL:
Polly: captain/coach West Perth 1968 - 71, captain WA on 6 occasions
Cabes: Perth captain 1972-3, captain coach East Perth 1978 -80
Stephen Michael: captain South Fremantle 1983, All Australian captain 1983
Maurice Rioli: captain South Fremantle 1988-9

A lot more indigenous boys playing football in Perth than in Melbourne in the 60s and 70s. How many WAFL teams have indigenous captains now?

 

[dave123]

I work with lots of aboriginal people

I have freinds who are aboriginal also ...just stating those to clarify my point

They are in many ways quiet by nature ...naturally a little reserved ...there are exceptions Adam Goodes was an outstanding leader

By nature many Indigenous players grew up environments were survival was an achievement in itself

I believe they are leaders but maybe with the way a modern captain is ....loads of media, meeting sponsors and the semi corporate role some indigenous players would be put off by that

 

[Richard Pryor]

I think citing 120 years of history leads to a bit of a skewed view of how "problematic" this is. Obviously racism was going to prevent an indigenous player captaining a club in 1937, I don't think that's really relevant to the state of things in the AFL now though.

Going off when the name changed to AFL or when West Coast joined would probably lead to a more relevant look to at the AFL, rather than just highlighting the obvious history of racism in Australia.

 

[Borussia Teeth]

It can't have helped that there were like 5 Indigenous footballers to play VFL across its history before like 1980.

Kevin Sheedy hadn’t invented them yet.

 

[adammania9]

Why were there no Indigenous members of the Italian team of the century?

 

[Ron The Bear]

10 out of 335 equals bang on 3%, about right in terms of per population.

They comprise about 10% of AFL players though, and it's been that way for some time.

The question was raised a while ago as to why there aren't any Aboriginal senior coaches. The reasons would be similar.

 

[masai]

Kevin Sheedy hadn’t invented them yet.

Kevin Sheedy didn’t invent anything, he just copied what had been done before.

 

[tenderwarrior]

They comprise about 10% of AFL players though, and it's been that way for some time.

The question was raised a while ago as to why there aren't any Aboriginal senior coaches. The reasons would be similar.

What are the reasons?

 

[onebillsdrive]

Why were there no Indigenous members of the Italian team of the century?

Yes there were: two members peter and phil matera

 

[PP34]

Let’s ignore anything greater than 20 years because I’m sure racism was a big factor.

But as of recent times how many have actually been suitable candidates?

Indigenous players are only a small percentage of the overall players in the game and I can’t think of too many great candidates in the last few years.

 

[Norwood1878]

Was Barry Cable the only indigenous coach in VFL/AFL history?

 

[Herne Hill Hammer]

Just goes to show that the WAFL was ahead of the times, or the VFL is dragging it’s feet.

Keith Narkle.

So someone lists 6 from the VFL / AFL and someone else lists 4 from the WAFL and the WAFL is ahead of of the times and the VFL / AFL are dragging their feet?

Err, ok.

 

[Barry_Badrinath]

Michanel O’Loughlin in 2009
Lewis Jetta in 2010, 11 or 12
Byron Sumner in 2011
Tony Armstrong in 2012

None were self indulgent people with a holier than thou attitude.
Real people who symbolised the bloods culture.
Players who would’ve fit the mold of a club with a “no d***heads policy”

Should’ve built your team around that culture. Instead, you built a culture which allowed Kurt Tippett to feel right at home.

WTF? Lewis Jetta was drafted in 2009. You think in his debut year, before he'd even played a game, he should've been named captain or even a co-captain ahead of Adam Goodes, Brett Kirk and Craig Bolton (who were the 3 co-captains at the time)?

 

[GC2015]

Why were there no Indigenous members of the Italian team of the century?

Yes there were: two members peter and phil matera

Well, don't you look silly adammania9.

 

[Hobbes]

It can't have helped that there were like 5 Indigenous footballers to play VFL across its history before like 1980.

I count 24, on this list. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_...en's_players_of_Indigenous_Australian_descent . But yes, representation was a little thin before the mid 1980s.

 

[masai]

So someone lists 6 from the VFL / AFL and someone else lists 4 from the WAFL and the WAFL is ahead of of the times and the VFL / AFL are dragging their feet?

Err, ok.

Timeline.

The list for VFL / AFL leaders that I saw, had only one listed prior to the 90’s. The WAFL had them as leaders in the 60’s.

In essence, as explained in this thread, there is a higher percentage of indigenous people in WA & SA. More playing, more likely to have an indigenous leader.

 

[Ron The Bear]

What are the reasons?

They've already been mentioned in various posts. Could be described very generally as discomfort with city life.

 

[Herne Hill Hammer]

Timeline.

The list for VFL / AFL leaders that I saw, had only one listed prior to the 90’s. The WAFL had them as leaders in the 60’s.

In essence, as explained in this thread, there is a higher percentage of indigenous people in WA & SA. More playing, more likely to have an indigenous leader.

Polly Farmer is listed in the 60s in the VFL and WAFL. First stint in the VFL so WAFL dragging their feet.

 

[connolly]

Name some indigenous players who were more deserving of being captain than the captain of their club at the time?

Buddy Franklin

 

[telsor]

Buddy Franklin

Best player isn't necessarily the best captain.

 

[Big_Birdy]

Burgoyne a chance to get the Hawks gig? Certainly captain material, and would be deserving, but I'd guess they will go for someone younger for a longer term.

 

[james Dean]

WTF? Lewis Jetta was drafted in 2009. You think in his debut year, before he'd even played a game, he should've been named captain or even a co-captain ahead of Adam Goodes, Brett Kirk and Craig Bolton (who were the 3 co-captains at the time)?

I think that post may have been a tad facetious

 

[wal]

If Fyfe wasn't at Fremantle Michael Walters would be captain.

 

[stax on the mull]

Tony Shaw gloated about the pros of racism on the footy field. Chris Lewis also named Gary Lyon as one of the other guys who loved racist 'banter'.

What about John Worsfold admitting in his press conference after his career ended how he regretted racial abusing his former South Fremantle teammate Nicky Winmar.

Just a one off?