Worst Coach?

[The Phat Side]

Neesham was not a good coach. I agree his game plan wasnt that bad but that isnt all to being a coach. He passed on so many great players he obviously had no eye for talent. Also he traded away many good players so clearly he was unable to get the best out of them when they were there.

Not quite on the worst list but a s hi te coach nonetheless.

 

[Asgardian]

Sabre, did you even bother to read my entire post?

I did not attack his game plan, I based my opinion of him on his team creation methods, and then ultimately his inability to change the equation, when clearly things were not travelling well. None of that has anything to do with game plan, yet you focus on that aspect, why?

 

[moomba]

Originally posted by Asgardian

Paul Feltham

Had a fairly good record coaching Brisbane (5 wins from 7?) in the days when no-one had a winning record up there. Don't think he had a senior job elsewhere, but can't say I have followed his coaching career closely.

Moomba

 

[sabre_ac]

Originally posted by Asgardian
Sabre, did you even bother to read my entire post?

I did not attack his game plan, I based my opinion of him on his team creation methods, and then ultimately his inability to change the equation, when clearly things were not travelling well. None of that has anything to do with game plan, yet you focus on that aspect, why?

Because that aspect alone suggests he wasnt the worst coach not even a bad coach.

 

[Asgardian]

Sabre, his reliance on that aspect of coaching was his failing, he put all of Fremantles eggs into the "game plan" basket, when that proved insufficient, he was devoid of alternatives.

So what you perceive as a strength, was in actual fact the catalyst to his clubs formative years ineptitude, all in my opinion of course

 

[Mead]

Originally posted by sabre_ac


Because that aspect alone suggests he wasnt the worst coach not even a bad coach.

Scarily enough, i agree with you sabre, well sorta anyway. I didn't think Neesham was a spectacularly bad coach, just mediocre.
By far the worst coach in recent times was Ken Judge. The man had no charisma, no gameplan, slagged off his players constantly, warred with the teams veterans, and obviously did very little in the way of skills training. About midway through last season, it got to the point where our players would be out of most matches by around quarter time, and Judge didn't even seem *concerned* about it. There was a match late last season against Essendon where they came to Subi, Judge said in the media prior to the game that he'd be happy if the team gave a good contest, but didn't really expect a win, and at that moment I'm ashamed to say i was closer to tearing up my membership than ever before. I know people should stick with their clubs in the good times and the bad, but how can you *POSSIBLY* countenance a head coach saying he doesn't expect his team to play to win. By then, I was counting down the days till the end of the season and judge's sacking.
Thing is, so far this season the Eagles haven't been spectacular, with some dodgy skills (courtesy of two seasons under messr Judge) but they have at least stayed in contests and fought back, showed some self belief and at least had a crack at winning. John Worsfold is lucky in that at least his first season will be measured against his total rabbit of a predecessor.

 

[Voice of Reason]

Thanks all for your thoughts. I had forgotten about Tim Watson and Robert shaw (at Adelaide, I thought he got a lot out of a little at Fitzroy).

Neesham is an interesting one and I can see both sides of the argument. I did consider him, but thought that he had a revolutionary game plan that worked brilliantly in the WAFL but didn't seem to be able to take the next step to the AFL. He did get Freo within a game of the Finals too, but recruitment wasn't good. Asgardian's point about arrogance in sticking to the game plan is also interesting but overall I think I'd give him a mixed review - certainly not like several of the others mentioned.

As an aside, I hope Peter Schwab doesn't lose confidence in his ability - he seems such a nice feller.

 

[Diego]

Gary Buckenara

The worst coach ever. His pre match talks went something like..

"Good luck today boys"

No game plan no nothing. No wonder we where getting done by 100+ points every week.

His appointment strongly reflects the way the club was being run back then.

 

[BrisGirl]

Neil Balme.

 

[The Spornstar]

Originally posted by Dan26


Paul Feltham?

How does taking over a team on the bottom, and taking them to 5-2 in his ONLY 7 games as coach in 1989 equate to being a bad coach?

If anything, Bears fans were wondering why the higher ups didn't give him the job full-time in '90.

True. That was a very strange decision.

 

[Portia]

Sabre, a good coach uses a gameplan that his players can play.

An ignorant coach makes up a gameplan and can't see that his players aren't smart or skilled enough to enact it.

Also, whenever Port play in a style similar to Neesham's much vaunted gameplan, we are either losing badly, trying to protect a lead poorly or are accused of playing extremely dull football. What are we supposed to be thanking him for again?

 

[jim440]

Gary Buckenara
Wayne Schimmelbusch
Royce Hart
Kevin Bartlett
Ken Judge
Tony Shaw

 

[BrainOfMorbius]

Originally posted by Dan26
Paul Feltham?

How does taking over a team on the bottom, and taking them to 5-2 in his ONLY 7 games as coach in 1989 equate to being a bad coach?

If anything, Bears fans were wondering why the higher ups didn't give him the job full-time in '90.

I remember at the time there were a lot of people who suspected Feltham of knifing Peter Knights by insinuating himself into Paul Cronin's favour. His results were good in comparison to the previous 12 months or so, but I think a lot of people put this down to the sacking waking a few players out of their complacency rather than any particularly good coaching methods or match tactics.

I'm not aware of Feltham coaching again anywhere after he finished up at the end of 1989, so it doesn't look like many people around the country was convinced he could coach especially well. Of course, he's still a long way from being considered for any list of worst coaches.

 

[sabre_ac]

Originally posted by Porthos
Sabre, a good coach uses a gameplan that his players can play.

An ignorant coach makes up a gameplan and can't see that his players aren't smart or skilled enough to enact it.

Also, whenever Port play in a style similar to Neesham's much vaunted gameplan, we are either losing badly, trying to protect a lead poorly or are accused of playing extremely dull football. What are we supposed to be thanking him for again?

The difference is Port have the cattle in the midfield to pull of neeshams game plan.
When they play his game plan they are extremely dangerous.
His run with the ball and play on methods have helped port imensely.

 

[NYMets]

Stupid qestion # 88.....
you know if the afl and the club sites (some like the Hawks & Pis which used to have good historical info etc ) weren't crap and devoid of stats I'd have looked it up there. hee hee spot the error

Did Buckenara coach a senior side?
and did the entire 80's Hawthorn side get coaching or media jobs?
Lets see Rocket,Plough, Ayres, Schwab, .........etc etc

 

[Captain Random]

Originally posted by BrisGirl
Neil Balme.

The guy who took Melbourne to a Prelim in 1994?

 

[GoEagles]

Neesham was definately not the worst coach in AFL, in fact I think he's been the best coach for Fremantle since 1995. Surely the 2 standout choices for worst coaches would go to Damien Drum and Ken Judge - their body language, talks at press conferences and decisions made during games oozed of negativity.

You can't solely blame Neesham on the Dockers recruiting either. I doubt the final decision of a player rests with the coach. What about Phil Smart and his team who didnt take any responsibility for their draft picks in the mid/late 90s.

 

[sabre_ac]

Originally posted by GoEagles
Neesham was definately not the worst coach in AFL, in fact I think he's been the best coach for Fremantle since 1995. Surely the 2 standout choices for worst coaches would go to Damien Drum and Ken Judge - their body language, talks at press conferences and decisions made during games oozed of negativity.

You can't solely blame Neesham on the Dockers recruiting either. I doubt the final decision of a player rests with the coach. What about Phil Smart and his team who didnt take any responsibility for their draft picks in the mid/late 90s.

Though fremantles drafting as been poor I could safely say that the eagles has been worse.
Your drafting history has been terrible.
The amount of high picks you have had in your hands and what your recieved is ridiculous.
Hille....
McDougal...
To name a few

 

[bunsen burner]

2 flags in the bag though, idiot.

When Freo win a couple, I'll start to listen.

 

[Jeba]

Gerard Nesham rocks

he did well with the team he had

 

[Jars458]

Fos Williams
Mark Williams
Russel Ebert
Jack Cahill


All absolute shockers.

 

[bulldogs1]

Win ONLY four flags? How long has Malthouse left to reach his 20? Two at the Eagles, and after several years at the Pies, would you say he was on track?

Don't tell me, he doesn't have the cattle that Sheedy did, right?

Originally posted by Magpie Miracle
Kevin Sheedy. Given the side that he's had at his disposal the last 20+ years, to win only 4 flags is just not good enough. The Hawks managed to win 5 flags in just a 9 year period. That's what great sides do. Funny how shee'dy's sides had their best years the year Sheedy's contract was up for renewal too.

 

[Visro]

Originally posted by sabre_ac

McDougal...

Did this guy beat you up or something when you were little? For christ sakes sabre you sad git, the guy has only been on our list for a year and has been struck down by soft tissue injuries and yet you allready write him off. All McDougall needs to do is build up match fitness and confidence in the WAFL and he will be fine.

 

[Macca19]

Originally posted by sabre_ac


The difference is Port have the cattle in the midfield to pull of neeshams game plan.
When they play his game plan they are extremely dangerous.
His run with the ball and play on methods have helped port imensely.

we played 'Neeshams gameplan' all of 2000, and we came 14th with one of the worst attacks in the league.

When we played this game plan we looked a very very average football side.

 

[wagstaff]

Originally posted by Voice of Reason


Neesham is an interesting one and I can see both sides of the argument. I did consider him, but thought that he had a revolutionary game plan that worked brilliantly in the WAFL but didn't seem to be able to take the next step to the AFL. He did get Freo within a game of the Finals too, but recruitment wasn't good. Asgardian's point about arrogance in sticking to the game plan is also interesting but overall I think I'd give him a mixed review - certainly not like several of the others mentioned.

While I think Neesham brought some valuable things to AFL football in his coaching, the fact that Fremantle were no better in 1998 then they were in 1995 doesn't say much for him.

From the odd occasions when I've heard him since I've finished coaching, he comes across as somewhat arrogant, and wasn't prepared to accept responsiblity for Fremantle's eventual failure under him.