Worst list in the AFL at present?

[MickG88]

“Great space”.

You’re right they lack forward structure and luck with injury.

But you conveniently left out “talent” in your assessment.

Whats Carltons reason for being abysmal last year, your list is full of talent and still couldn't make the eight.

 

[aussierulesrules]

“Great space”.

You’re right they lack forward structure and luck with injury.

But you conveniently left out “talent” in your assessment.

There’s plenty of “talent”, but as I pointed out above, a very big chunk of it is unrealised at this stage, largely due to so many of our 26yo and under group having significant injury setbacks over the last two years in particular. Mostly as they were entering those “breakout” ages (22-24yo).

It makes no sense whatsoever to say that a team who has finished just one win outside the final 8- off the hardest draw in each of the last two years- despite all those injury setbacks to most of our best young talent, lacks talent.

If we’d had the easy draw of Carlton or the even easier one of Richmond last year, we most likely win 13 games, in spite of all the aforementioned injury setbacks, and huge form fluctuations.

What does that say about all the other teams that would have finished below us, if that’s the case!

 

[disco_cowboy]

Won one less game than Carlton last season with a much tougher fixture.

Over vs under achieving

 

[aussierulesrules]

Over vs under achieving

That also makes no sense, given the fact the year before (with an even worse injury run) we also finished just 1 win outside the 8, while the year before we finished 5th.

So you could make a strong case for the fact that we actually underachieved last year.

Which is of course a big part of the reason Ratten was sacked. He was pretty clearly not getting the best out of the team as a whole on a consistent basis, nor a lot of individuals in the team.

I swear some of you think a game of footy is played on a piece of paper, and ignore actual results from out on a football ground.

 

[aussierulesrules]

We have been absolutely cruelled with the “fixture” and injuries in the past 2 years. No one wants to hear about that though, which is fair enough, as all clubs have their issues.

It is fact though and we’re due a bit of luck.

Well our draw for this year certainly looks like a step in the right direction there.

Two extra games at Marvel, double-ups against expected spoon contending North and Hawthorn, and one less game interstate/Geelong (despite one whole round being played in SA, and there being an extra round this year).

Losing Max for a chunk was obviously a kick in the balls on the injury front though.

 

[Jeremias]

Won one less game than Carlton last season with a much tougher fixture.

Why do you continue to masquerade as a Melbourne supporter?

Who do you think you’re actually hiding from? And why are you seemingly so ashamed to list them as your supported team?

Whats Carltons reason for being abysmal last year, your list is full of talent and still couldn't make the eight.

There’s plenty of “talent”, but as I pointed out above, a very big chunk of it is unrealised at this stage, largely due to so many of our 26yo and under group having significant injury setbacks over the last two years in particular. Mostly as they were entering those “breakout” ages (22-24yo).

It makes no sense whatsoever to say that a team who has finished just one win outside the final 8- off the hardest draw in each of the last two years- despite all those injury setbacks to most of our best young talent, lacks talent.

If we’d had the easy draw of Carlton or the even easier one of Richmond last year, we most likely win 13 games, in spite of all the aforementioned injury setbacks, and huge form fluctuations.

What does that say about all the other teams that would have finished below us, if that’s the case!

Sorry, what’s Carlton got to do with this?

Unless you reckon the answer to the thread title is Carlton there’s no need to bring them into it.

 

[Red Black and Blue]

Well our draw for this year certainly looks like a step in the right direction there.

Two extra games at Marvel, double-ups against expected spoon contending North and Hawthorn, and one less game interstate/Geelong (despite one whole round being played in SA, and there being an extra round this year).

Losing Max for a chunk was obviously a kick in the balls on the injury front though.

I think sides are mostly judged by the forward line talent and ability to score. Most teams can execute a lock down defense if they focus on that, what separates the sides is ability to break down defenses.

You were 15th for average goals last year. You've lost a bunch there with King and Ryder, in turn Marshall to be sole ruck. While you've taken a few capable kids that I like, they won't be any real help for a while. I think you'll likely struggle this year unless you get a massive break out from Gresham and Hayes and even with the easier draw could be a bottom 6 side. Given it's a forward heavy draft coming up, that might be what's best mid-long term for you, if you end up with Zane Duursma, Archer Reid or Ashton Moir, guys who can support King in his prime.

 

[MickG88]

Sorry, what’s Carlton got to do with this?

Unless you reckon the answer to the thread title is Carlton there’s no need to bring them into it.

But you conveniently left out “talent” in your assessment.

You mention that Saints have no talent but we finish a game behind a "talented" Carlton, what's Carltons excuse for not making the 8 if it has such a talented list?
Piece of advice, don't throw stones in glass houses.

 

[MickG88]

I think sides are mostly judged by the forward line talent and ability to score. Most teams can execute a lock down defense if they focus on that, what separates the sides is ability to break down defenses.

You were 15th for average goals last year. You've lost a bunch there with King and Ryder, in turn Marshall to be sole ruck. While you've taken a few capable kids that I like, they won't be any real help for a while. I think you'll likely struggle this year unless you get a massive break out from Gresham and Hayes and even with the easier draw could be a bottom 6 side. Given it's a forward heavy draft coming up, that might be what's best mid-long term for you, if you end up with Zane Duursma, Archer Reid or Ashton Moir, guys who can support King in his prime.

Didn't Richmond win a premiership with one key forward in 2017 (Jack Riewoldt).

 

[Jeremias]

You mention that Saints have no talent but we finish a game behind a "talented" Carlton, what's Carltons excuse for not making the 8 if it has such a talented list?
Piece of advice, don't throw stones in glass houses.

I didn’t say the Saints have no talent.

Piece of advice, read properly before you respond.

 

[Red Black and Blue]

Didn't Richmond win a premiership with one key forward in 2017 (Jack Riewoldt).

And the best half forward/mid since Leigh Matthews. Who had the highest 1 on 1 inside 50 win percentage ever. Both of whom are infinitely better any of your forwards. Plus another 7 medium/small forwards rotating through with an entire game plan built around pace and chaos and had players with the attributes to execute it. You do not. That shouldn't come as a surprise...

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

I keep reading this. It’s almost like his last 3 years at Hawthorn didn’t happen and someone else was coaching, isn’t it.

Hawks didn't have by the far most inexperienced list the past 3 years.

They will this year...

 

[Rich01]

Wow.

We’ve gone from a view that the Saints having a middling list to another comparing them to a premiership side. And not to mention they had the worlds hardest draw last year.

Ross the Boss really has set expectations high.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Hawks didn't have by the far most inexperienced list the past 3 years.

They will this year...

And what’s that got to do with Clarkson’s last 3 years of coaching at Hawthorn?

 

[MickG88]

And the best half forward/mid since Leigh Matthews. Who had the highest 1 on 1 inside 50 win percentage ever. Both of whom are infinitely better any of your forwards. Plus another 7 medium/small forwards rotating through with an entire game plan built around pace and chaos and had players with the attributes to execute it. You do not.

Both Butler and Higgins were apart of Richmond premiership years and now they play for the Saints, so 2 out of 7 isn't bad. Hill is another multiple premiership player who played hff/wing for Hawks.
Add both Billings and Gresham to that list and I see a pretty handy hff/small forward brigade.
Not to mention Owens and Phillipou who are just starting out and look to have a lot of potential but hey if you say we don't have the players then you must know.
Thats beside the point, I was simply saying that you dont need two key forwards to win a premiership, just a good gameplan.

 

[Red Black and Blue]

Both Butler and Higgins were apart of Richmond premiership years and now they play for the Saints, so 2 out of 7 isn't bad. Hill is another multiple premiership player who played hff/wing for Hawks.
Add both Billings and Gresham to that list and I see a pretty handy hff/small forward brigade.
Not to mention Owens and Phillipou who are just starting out and look to have a lot of potential but hey if you say we don't have the players then you must know.
Thats beside the point, I was simply saying that you dont need two key forwards to win a premiership, just a good gameplan.

You were bottom 4 for goals. Of course you don't have the players. Would be absurd to think you could underperform to that extent and think that's sufficient enough to win a flag with the core your mids 27 and older. Probably a three year window to be winning the flag with Steele/Crouch yet the forward line is that far off.

You don't need a key forward you need support. That can come from different types but they need to be match winners and preferable operate as at least genuine targets.

 

[Shueygod]

It can't be the Saints. They are middle of the pack but have a few stars & now a good coach that might get them a few finals. Sure, they might not get a flag and then need to rebuild but I don't think the bar should be furthest away from a flag. Otherwise it could potentially be Geelong or Richmond if things don't go right and a full rebuild is required in a few years (I know Geelong have been in that position forever).

Even then, I think WC has still got it by a mile. The lack of talent 20-26 is staggering & if the last few drafts and the next few drafts aren't massive home runs, they'll have no stars to lead them. I recon it would be the hardest list to take on despite the club riches at their disposal. I am also starting to think that Simmo might need to be moved on sooner rather than later so hard decisions can be made with club favourites. A 2 year deal for Nic Nat at his age is amazing in the context of his output.

He was AA in 20 and 21….

 

[disco_cowboy]

That also makes no sense, given the fact the year before (with an even worse injury run) we also finished just 1 win outside the 8, while the year before we finished 5th.

So you could make a strong case for the fact that we actually underachieved last year.

Which is of course a big part of the reason Ratten was sacked. He was pretty clearly not getting the best out of the team as a whole on a consistent basis, nor a lot of individuals in the team.

I swear some of you think a game of footy is played on a piece of paper, and ignore actual results from out on a football ground.

truth hurts

 

[disco_cowboy]

Can saints supporter please tell me what he bare minimum is this year in ladder finish. Supposedly they are gonna make the top 4?

 

[Kreuuuzeurns]

Max King, Jack Steele and 40 odd battlers.

It’s St Kilda then daylight as far as I’m concerned.

 

[Noidnadroj]

That also makes no sense, given the fact the year before (with an even worse injury run) we also finished just 1 win outside the 8, while the year before we finished 5th.

So you could make a strong case for the fact that we actually underachieved last year.

Which is of course a big part of the reason Ratten was sacked. He was pretty clearly not getting the best out of the team as a whole on a consistent basis, nor a lot of individuals in the team.

I swear some of you think a game of footy is played on a piece of paper, and ignore actual results from out on a football ground.

Unless the Saints get more goals out of their midfield they won’t be contenders. Hill, Jones, Crouch, Steele, Ross and Sinclair just don’t kick enough goals. They got 27 goals from about 115 games from those 6 in 2022.


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[Freomaniac]

Max King, Jack Steele and 40 odd battlers.

It’s St Kilda then daylight as far as I’m concerned.

Just Because the saints have the worst list, it doesnt mean that they have the bottom spot taken.

I dont think the saints have the worst list.

theres at least 4 teams that has a worst overall list than the saints.

 

[WillHayward]

This thread is a psychologists picnic.

Saints fan seem overly obsessed about the fixtures.

North fans shit canning the Saints list seems the most bizarre of all.

 

[WillHayward]

Unless the Saints get more goals out of their midfield they won’t be contenders. Hill, Jones, Crouch, Steele, Ross and Sinclair just don’t kick enough goals. They got 27 goals from about 115 games from those 6 in 2022.


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Saints biggest problem is Billings is supposed to be a fwd but is just not very good at any position.

 

[WillHayward]

No such thing as a slider, just incorrect mock drafts.

Most sensible thing I've read on this thread