Youth is no excuse for bad performances

[simba_]

how do you define a Port supporter then? if this way is dead, only applicable to a smaller competition where we feel we had more chance of being what we say we are. does the competition we compete in define our mentality as supporters? are we completely different to those of 20, 30, 40 years ago supporting the same club, because now we accept we're in a big league with deliberate concessions? to me that's taking "caring about the opposition too much" (when discussing match day tactics etc) to a whole other level. that's probably what the competition wanted. Geelong looked after number one and stayed away from the detrimental buzz of the city (any city), were told they were too old but nothing can get through a strong mentality like they have. obviously we had it in 2004. obviously in 2007 and since the club (and SANFL) have done well in stamping pride out of us. but I don't think it's right to comply with this 'sit back, success will come in time' way of the AFL, we should be setting trends and making our own example, like we used to do, like Geelong have proven still works..

 

[Schulzenfest]

Geelong won premierships because they recruited brilliantly, not because their supporters thought they could. If believing you're going to win the premiership in the face of all logic going against you achieved anything, then Carlton would've won the last 4.

 

[Portia]

**** Carlton, how about Richmond?

 

[TheSuper6of06]

Geelong won premierships because they recruited brilliantly, not because their supporters thought they could. If believing you're going to win the premiership in the face of all logic going against you achieved anything, then Carlton would've won the last 4.

recruited brilliantly and had a couple of father sons gifted in the form ablett, scarlett and hawkins

you look back at their drafts and just go 'unfrigginbelievable'

 

[Schulzenfest]

From my experience most Richmond supporters have figured out that they're s**t by now.

Anyway, we can still be Port Adelaide. We can still have a with us or against us mentality, we can still Live the Creed, we can still demand nothing but the best from our players and off-field personnel (we don't, but we could) and we can still 'exist to win premierships', but that adage necessarily takes on another meaning in a cyclical competition.

In the SANFL, 'we exist to win premierships' meant 'we exist to win the premiership every year', because in the SANFL the premiership was a realistic goal every year. In the AFL, it isn't. If we go as hard as we can after the premiership every year we'll probably never win one again, because going as hard as we can over premierships that we have no chance of winning prevents us from building toward getting to the position of having a chance to get one. In the AFL, 'we exist to win premiership' has to mean 'we exist to get ourselves in the position of challenging for a premiership as quickly as possible, then challenging for one', because taking an SANFL attitude into an AFL competition simply doesn't work.

 

[simba_]

Richmond and Carlton.. now we have joined them and their stories with our own tales of crippling trauma, but nothing like the Tigers and we are not as corrupt as the Blues. we wont have down time as long as them but we need to perform, make the finals, and we could if we cared to.

one thing we miss that Choco gave was that he knew how to make his team play for this club, right now we are focusing too much on how to get 'kids' to play our 'game plan' and for the last few years all the messages from inside SA are that we are hopeless.. nothing of the club is being imprinted onto them by the supporters, maybe slowly. nobody else is going to support the clubs good name.

 

[RobbieGray17]

I disagree with the op. You throw a bunch of kids into the arena and expect them to be fantastic against experienced hard bodied professionals. You are kidding yourself. It is a fair excuse for the bad performances. But you would never come out as a coach and admit that. you would be thrown to the wolves.

This is why I firmly believe if you are Geelong now, you play Scarlett till he's 35, you keep all those guys playing and stagger the retirements 1-2 per year. I don't believe you should ever allow your team to be full of kids.

 

[Spadge]

Problem is that players will retire when they want and generally won't stay on because the club wants them to stay

Im sure I heard Scarlett say next year will be his last

 

[b0ydman]

This is not the 10-team SANFL where we can dominate year after year and win flags as many years as not.

The reality is we are now in a 17 (soon to be 18) team competition with equalisation measures like draft picks in place.

We still "exist to win premierships", but unlike in the past, we cannot realistically expect to win them very often.

The old days are gone. Live with it.

Sigh Pred

When did you become neutralised?

When did the fire, the passion, die?

Is this why our club is so sh*t? Because that mentality pervades from top to bottom?

Its one of the sadest things of Australians. We're so apathetic, such sheep, so....middle class.

1 of 18, don't try, live with it. Don't reach higher.

I remember I did a thing with Stan Alves. He said son, stand up and reach as high as you can. I did. I sat down. He said that was terrific. Now, do it again, but reach 1 centimetre higher than you did before. And I did. And I did.

Self belief. So valuable. You gotta give it to the yanks they have it in spades. Of course the Americans are over the top and their denial of reality is part of their problem. But there is a happy medium sometimes

My old lady had it, being the old Jewess she was, down my throat. Sure it made me the arrogant twisted sod I am, but I'd like to think I've achieved a bit in my life along the way because of it

One of those things is the book I've written which explains how we could very easily have set the explosives in the buildings in New York 10 years ago. (save yourself 250 pages and google "the trolley problem")

Can I give a story which matters in relation to our club and the youth policy?

It is one of the singlularly most important principles in human behaviour and expectation modification. It explains why we are prepared to be taxed 65% of our incomes. Why we are prepared to accept $300 fines for driving 3km over a "limit". Why we place a noose around our necks called a mortgage at interest rates 2,3,4 times higher than the rest of the world, why we don't demand that we be allowed to offset our mortgage with our personal superannuation.


Why we listen to old fat has beens like MeatLoaf

And why we say such debilitating, demoralising comments such as "live with it"

The Monkey Story


If you start with a cage containing five monkeys and, inside the cage, hang a banana on a string from the top and then you place a set of stairs under the banana, before long a monkey will go to the stairs and climb toward the banana.
As soon as he touches the stairs, you spray all the other monkeys with cold water. After a while, another monkey makes an attempt with same result .... all the other monkeys are sprayed with cold water. Pretty soon, when another monkey tries to climb the stairs, the other monkeys will try to prevent it.

Now, put the cold water away. Remove one monkey from the cage and replace it with a new one. The new monkey sees the banana and attempts to climb the stairs. To his shock, all of the other monkeys beat the crap out of him. After another attempt and attack, he knows that if he tries to climb the stairs he will be assaulted.

Next, remove another of the original five monkeys, replacing it with a new one. The newcomer goes to the stairs and is attacked. The previous newcomer takes part in the punishment... with enthusiasm.

Then, replace a third original monkey with a new one, followed by a fourth, then the fifth. Every time the newest monkey takes to the stairs he is attacked. Most of the monkeys that are beating him have no idea why they were not permitted to climb the stairs. Neither do they know why they are participating in the beating of the newest monkey.

Finally, having replaced all of the original monkeys, none of the remaining monkeys will have ever been sprayed with cold water. Nevertheless, none of the monkeys will try to climb the stairway to the banana.

Why, you ask? Because in their minds .... that is the way it has always been

Is this how Port Adelaide Football Club operates?

Is this why sometimes, such as when you are in a place like we are with record blowouts and failed administrators and board members, ALL OF THE MONKEYS NEED TO BE REPLACED AT THE SAME TIME?

But here I read we should only use picks 6, 28 and 33 at the upcoming draft.

So back to the youth.

At the end of Round 1 I made observations about a certain player based on 2 principles. 1- I do not believe there is a talent beyond the ability to run run run.
2- as importantly, he (and others) are being infected.

Our club and our monkeys are infected.

that is all

 

[ClintEastwood]

Meh, I've already stated my position and you haven't added anything new, other than to wave your arms around wildly. I'll take reality over blind optimism any day.

 

[Portology]

Meh, I've already stated my position and you haven't added anything new, other than to wave your arms around wildly. I'll take reality over blind optimism any day.

Mate, he doesn't realize we aren't monkeys.

 

[TheSuper6of06]

self belief is not unique boydman

every club can apply self belief

its not apathy on part of supporters either

its reality

its recognising there are many factors that contribute to success

and trying to maximise each of those facets to ensure success

 

[Schulzenfest]

I was never a Port supporter in the SANFL, so I can understand why some of the older posters here are having trouble letting go of the attitudes that worked so well for the PAFC in the SANFL. But those attitudes are counterproductive in the AFL world of equalization and 'bottoming out'.

It's just not possible to have a realistic chance of winning the premiership every year. If you don't have that chance, you have to work towards building the club into a position where it does, because playing the same old players in the same old way won't get you any closer to that realistic chance.

 

[Natman]

I was never a Port supporter in the SANFL, so I can understand why some of the older posters here are having trouble letting go of the attitudes that worked so well for the PAFC in the SANFL. But those attitudes are counterproductive in the AFL world of equalization and 'bottoming out'.

It's just not possible to have a realistic chance of winning the premiership every year. If you don't have that chance, you have to work towards building the club into a position where it does, because playing the same old players in the same old way won't get you any closer to that realistic chance.

I didn't want to post in this thread because the OP was a load of rubbish.
The recent tone about expectations is exactly where the club knows we are.
Realistically, the club motto should be "we expect to win premierships when we have a team capable of achieving it".

 

[b0ydman]

self belief is not unique boydman

well there goes anzac mythology.

sigh

i understand reality

can i put it this way

if you are at uni say, ask 5 mates next time you are all in the bar

ask each to say how much they think they will ever earn (in todays dollars) at the height of their future earning point

one will say $80k pa
another 200k
another 500k
another 150k
another maybe $1m

then look them in the eye and tell each of them matter of a fact

YOU will never earn more than $80,000 in a year
YOU will never earn more than $200,000 in a year, and so on

Refer Stan Alves and the extra inch.

F me if there might be truth to this Gen Y are a mob of soft soppy half men

i wonder if you are all layered s0ft c*cks that look like this girl

Boat shoes, white socks, shorts, polo shirt.

If this "we have to accept reality" and "we are one of 17 teams" and "we can't buy players" is the attitude at the club well then we are finished

 

[PatientMental]

'If this "we have to accept reality"'

That's because it is reality.

'and "we are one of 17 teams"'

We are.

'and "we can't buy players"'

Because you can't. Not unless you are GC or GWS and they wont be able to forever.

The only thing you can sell is a lifestyle, which is really difficult when you're squandering at the bottom of the ladder while other clubs outside of the quiet state of Adelaide are reaping the rewards of big business, larger population and mining businesses throwing marketing dollars at the clubs out west.

What can we do about it? Nothing.

'is the attitude at the club well then we are finished'

It's been our clubs attitude since 1997 since we joined the AFL. You can't just go around proclaiming to be the best, you have to prove it, and we are yet to do so at the highest level. Once this is done then the lifestyle of success can be sold outside the state.

 

[b0ydman]

''

It's been our clubs attitude since 1997 since we joined the AFL. You can't just go around proclaiming to be the best, you have to prove it, and we are yet to do so at the highest level. Once this is done then the lifestyle of success can be sold outside the state.

i dont disagree that having ones feet firm on the ground is important, and that denial is a killer. just look at the USA- yes we can, hope, change we can believe in- all sayings

but if i dont believe i will ever earn $800k, it will never happen

if we dont believe we can win a grand final, we never will

if we dont believe we can make the 8 and nuckle down for a finals where we leave nothing behind, we will be satisfied with 15th. and come round 14 we'll start licking our lips for another priority pick

anyone here ever been in a boxing ring? can i ask, if you walk into it without absolute belief that you_can_beat your opponent...will you?

next time we play collingwood, or geelong, what will our attitude be?

will we still be having s3x when we are 80?

stupid question some may ask

valid question i say

do we say now, "oh, i'll stop when im 50", or 60, or 70?


life is only made up of tomorrow. will we stop having s3x tomorrow? can we answer that question in 40 years any differently?

so i ask, when we next play collingwood will we walk onto that field with the belief that we CAN (not will, but can) beat them?

If we do, then we have to consider we CAN win a premiership next year

WILL it happen- improbably
CAN it happen- absolutely

What is our club? what are the players? are they man children, are they professional? what is the different between our players and "their" players

are they better? more skilled? faster? fitter? better coached?

which of those needs 5 years to develop?
faster, fitter, coaching, rehab. why can't any of those be done over a pre-season

dane swan can make the decision to eat hungry jacks or train on hit fitness

Why can't Matthew Broadbent?

but that is besides
every team has 18 players and 3 subs
its made up of kids and mature players

Is the PAFC a club that makes excuses, or is it the club that demands its players prepare themselves sufficient that it walks onto a field with the belief that it CAN win that game?

Win enough in a season you make the finals
carry that attitude. we CAN win the next game, being a final
We CAN win the next one and so on

The Port Adelaide Football Club exists to win Premierships

vs The Port Adelaide Football Club exists to win Priority Picks, and hopes to do okay, but says it cant beat good teams, or away at the MCG, or at Kardinia park,m and so on

The way you answer what we exist for says a lot about who you are

My Port Adelaide exists to win Premierships
No team that didn't think it could win its next game ever won a premiership

Its what Makes Richmond Richmond, and Melbourne Melbourne

 

[Schulzenfest]

if we dont believe we can win a grand final, we never will

Nobody's saying we can't ever win a Grand Final, just that we won't next year. If we do believe we can win a grand final next year, then we will not only fail spectacularly at doing so but we will get even further away from winning a grand final because we will have spent the year playing the best available team instead of developing our list to get into a position where we can win a Grand Final.

if we dont believe we can make the 8 and nuckle down for a finals where we leave nothing behind, we will be satisfied with 15th

I believe we could make the 8. It's an outside chance, but it's not impossible. The reason the OP has been ridiculed is for saying 'anything less than a premiership in 2011 is a failure', which is actually even stronger than the language you'd been using. By that logic if every single player on the team (especially the younger players who make up our future) played out of their skins and we were a kick off of winning the GF, then the year was a failure. It was no such thing, it sets us up for a future premiership assault. Existing to win premierships doesn't necessarily have to mean winning every premiership, because that is a ridiculous goal no matter how much you believe in it.

 

[Puddy]

Mate, if Port made the Grand Final next year, we had a Brownlow Medalist winner and a bunch of AA players and we lost the Grand Final by a kick, then yes the year would be a failure.

 

[Peck]

We can win the Grand Final next year. We almost certainly won't but our odds certainly aren't 10000000000 to 1. Geelong have proven that you don't need to "bottom out" to get success. The argument that they "recruited well" is BS to me. There is no way that they've picked up players that would have been brilliant at any club, I just can't buy that. Their system is better than anyone else's (helped by a reserves side obviously) and that is why they improved so much this year even after losing the best player in the comp.

If Port Adelaide takes the attitude that we need to bottom out and rebuild for 10 years every time we miss the finals we won't ever get a premiership. Rebuilding should happen every year, there is no reason not to play a couple of youngsters every season. If our team isn't good enough we cut the players that will never be good enough (not that there are many of those in a teams best 22 IMO) and get some better players.

This year for example we've cut Motlop, Chad, Kane, and maybe a couple of others to be replaced by Ebert/Griffin and draftees from this year or a previous year.

If you compare our side to last year we effectively dropped Kane, Pettigrew, Meyer, Nash, and Davenport and replaced them with O'Shea, Jacobs, Lobbe, Jonas, and Butcher. Sure many of those players are on our list (which is a problem) but they aren't best 22 anymore.

EDIT: Decided to see what Geelongs changes between sides was between PF last year and GF this year. Its not a huge amount but anyway.

OUT: Mooney, Ablett, Milburn, Byrnes
IN: Duncan, Christensen, West, Mackie.

With Mackie being the oldest by 4 years of the ins its a similar change to us IMO.

 

[Schulzenfest]

Mate, if Port made the Grand Final next year, we had a Brownlow Medalist winner and a bunch of AA players and we lost the Grand Final by a kick, then yes the year would be a failure.

OK, you're a troll. This thread and everything you post in the future is dismissed.

 

[Portology]

Just the simple "IN: Mackie" in Lurk3r's post ought to give the OP half a clue. It's not that simple anymore.