Saints News Zak Jones given Leave of Absence

[Joffaboy]

So true. If anything, men's mental health was probably signficantly worse back then by any objective measure. But when physical and financial security are up in peril, mental health inevitably gets put on the back burner. Paradoxically, it's only once society achieved unprecedented levels of prosperity was it possible to give mental health (awareness and treatment) the prominence it now has.

Maslow's hierarchy of needs

 

[True Believer]

I truly believe mens mental health has not gotten any worse than it always was. Feel that it was covered by domestic violence. alcoholism, and absenteeism.
My father was a WWII veteran who fought hand to hand in defence of the Milne Bay airstrip with the Japanese. Never once spoke about it when I was young. In that fight bayonetted at the back of his neck base of the skull. Months in hospital. As a kid always told me it was a work injury. As an adult he told me that war is not like the movies, he said there is body parts everywhere, guts strewn all over the ground, people getting injured by body parts of their best mates as they got blown apart yards from them. How do you recover from that?

After the Japanese surrender he went in the relief force to Singapore. The things he saw there (apart from the Changi prisoners) would make your hair curl. Murdered and beheaded women and children and other atrocities.

We had a whole generation of these men who were our fathers and grand fathers. A nation of men suffering PTSD. They were offered no help apart from what floated in the bottom of the glass in an RSL.

My dad never attended ANZAC Day, never caught up with Air Force buddies, kept his medals in a sock drawer. He was anguished by his experiences and wanted to forget, but never could. How the mental health awareness of today could have helped hundreds of thousands of returned servicemen from that generation.

My grandfather spent more than two years as a POW of the Japanese on the Burma railway, and as far as I know he never ever spoke of it other than to my father on a single occasion when he was drunk. He apparently assisted in the amputation of a fellow POW's gangrenous leg with little more than cutlery. My grandmother, as a then new young wife, only finally found out he was still alive when the Red Cross managed to get her a message he had written on a leaf. That leaf was still amongst her possessions when she died in her 80's. He was never again seen with his shirt off after he got back home, due to the scars on his back, and like your Dad, his medals lived in a sock drawer. When the Queen accepted the Emperor of Japan as a guest after the war, my grandfather apparently refused to speak to anyone for about two weeks.

Having grown up with this history so close to home, I tend to be somewhat dismissive of people claiming to be traumatized by "mansplaining" or someone not using their preferred pronouns.....

 

[Saint Kidding]

My grandfather spent more than two years as a POW of the Japanese on the Burma railway, and as far as I know he never ever spoke of it other than to my father on a single occasion when he was drunk. He apparently assisted in the amputation of a fellow POW's gangrenous leg with little more than cutlery. My grandmother, as a then new young wife, only finally found out he was still alive when the Red Cross managed to get her a message he had written on a leaf. That leaf was still amongst her possessions when she died in her 80's. He was never again seen with his shirt off after he got back home, due to the scars on his back, and like your Dad, his medals lived in a sock drawer. When the Queen accepted the Emperor of Japan as a guest after the war, my grandfather apparently refused to speak to anyone for about two weeks.

Having grown up with this history so close to home, I tend to be somewhat dismissive of people claiming to be traumatized by "mansplaining" or someone not using their preferred pronouns.....

I hate to think it of how bad your grandfather suffered as a POW. I don't doubt that it had a profound effect on him for the rest of his life.

It's understandable that you are dismissive of people who are traumatised by seemingly lesser events. But is that right?

At the moment I tend to do the same thing. I have cancer. The likelihood is that it will take me out in the next few years. The treatment has been brutal. I ache all over, and I'm ready for bed by early evening. However I am too young to access my super, so I still haul myself to work everyday that I can, and will continue to do so until I can't. When I am there, I am surrounded by the pettiest squabbles. It does my head in and I am grumpy.

I do internally often think dismissively of these people. I want to say to them "Come see me when you have a real problem". But in the end I have to remind myself that these things are relative. The child screaming because the dog licked their ice-cream, may well really be having the worst day of their life. They may lack the skills to deal with that. Who am I to dismiss that? So I dig deep and find empathy, not for the seemingly petty cause, but for the real distress that another person is experiencing.

 

[sammm]

I hate to think it of how bad your grandfather suffered as a POW. I don't doubt that it had a profound effect on him for the rest of his life.

It's understandable that you are dismissive of people who are traumatised by seemingly lesser events. But is that right?

At the moment I tend to do the same thing. I have cancer. The likelihood is that it will take me out in the next few years. The treatment has been brutal. I ache all over, and I'm ready for bed by early evening. However I am too young to access my super, so I still haul myself to work everyday that I can, and will continue to do so until I can't. When I am there, I am surrounded by the pettiest squabbles. It does my head in and I am grumpy.

I do internally often think dismissively of these people. I want to say to them "Come see me when you have a real problem". But in the end I have to remind myself that these things are relative. The child screaming because the dog licked their ice-cream, may well really be having the worst day of their life. They may lack the skills to deal with that. Who am I to dismiss that? So I dig deep and find empathy, not for the seemingly petty cause, but for the real distress that another person is experiencing.

I hope you have people that you can talk to. It is a very hard thing you are going through.

 

[Saint Kidding]

I hope you have people that you can talk to. It is a very hard thing you are going through.

I have good friends and a brilliant family. It would be nice if the Sainters could win the big one sooner rather than later though.

 

[gringo2011]

I hate to think it of how bad your grandfather suffered as a POW. I don't doubt that it had a profound effect on him for the rest of his life.

It's understandable that you are dismissive of people who are traumatised by seemingly lesser events. But is that right?

At the moment I tend to do the same thing. I have cancer. The likelihood is that it will take me out in the next few years. The treatment has been brutal. I ache all over, and I'm ready for bed by early evening. However I am too young to access my super, so I still haul myself to work everyday that I can, and will continue to do so until I can't. When I am there, I am surrounded by the pettiest squabbles. It does my head in and I am grumpy.

I do internally often think dismissively of these people. I want to say to them "Come see me when you have a real problem". But in the end I have to remind myself that these things are relative. The child screaming because the dog licked their ice-cream, may well really be having the worst day of their life. They may lack the skills to deal with that. Who am I to dismiss that? So I dig deep and find empathy, not for the seemingly petty cause, but for the real distress that another person is experiencing.

Jesus SK, that's a gut wrenching story. I'm feeling pretty silly getting so shitty about footy after reading that to be honest. Have you contacted any of the law centres or others about releasing your super? That's insane that you can't get some relief to recuperate without having to work.

My grandfather was another that has PTSD after the second WW. He worked hard and then went to the pub with his war buddies and drank heavily to self medicate. Never talked about the war, never wanted it glorified and generally pretended it didn't happen.

 

[Joffaboy]

Glad this thread has gone down this path. We recognise the trauma of our forefathers and the fact that recognising mental health for men in this current generation is nothing to scoff at.
I have been fortunate. I have never had real mental health issues, but am surrounded by loved ones who have suffered.

Stay strong. Get help, talk to your friends, and have empathy.

 

[Verdun]

Agree totally with Joffaboy and other recent posters.

Perspective and support for self and others are so important.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

My grandfather spent more than two years as a POW of the Japanese on the Burma railway, and as far as I know he never ever spoke of it other than to my father on a single occasion when he was drunk. He apparently assisted in the amputation of a fellow POW's gangrenous leg with little more than cutlery. My grandmother, as a then new young wife, only finally found out he was still alive when the Red Cross managed to get her a message he had written on a leaf. That leaf was still amongst her possessions when she died in her 80's. He was never again seen with his shirt off after he got back home, due to the scars on his back, and like your Dad, his medals lived in a sock drawer. When the Queen accepted the Emperor of Japan as a guest after the war, my grandfather apparently refused to speak to anyone for about two weeks.

Having grown up with this history so close to home, I tend to be somewhat dismissive of people claiming to be traumatized by "mansplaining" or someone not using their preferred pronouns.....

That's the thing about the olde world, they treated wars like a footy game or something.

"I say duke , i really had your number in that one "
" surely you did Your highness, i lost many thousands from my army, it will take some time to replace them from my peasant stock, another glass of Sherry?"

 

[gringo2011]

That's the thing about the olde world, they treated wars like a footy game or something.

"I say duke , i really had your number in that one "
" surely you did Your highness, i lost many thousands from my army, it will take some time to replace them from my peasant stock, another glass of Sherry?"

Yep, expecting casualties you send in your coloured colonials then white colonials then your peasant classes.

 

[Ephemeral Hope]

That's the thing about the olde world, they treated wars like a footy game or something.

"I say duke , i really had your number in that one "
" surely you did Your highness, i lost many thousands from my army, it will take some time to replace them from my peasant stock, another glass of Sherry?"

I reckon it was a game to the kings and generals. Not sure the soldiers would have had so much fun getting killed

 

[SaintsSeptember]

I reckon it was a game to the kings and generals. Not sure the soldiers would have had so much fun getting killed

Go back to Medieval days you had knights who were like tanks, because they had armour.
Mostly knights didn't fight each other, they flounced around mowing down unarmoured peasants.

 

[Ephemeral Hope]

Go back to Medieval days you had knights who were like tanks, because they had armour.
Mostly knights didn't fight each other, they flounced around mowing down unarmoured peasants.

Peasants probably weren’t having the most fun

 

[borderbarry]

I can rremember when Japanese cars first started being imported after the war, There was a lot of ill feeling towards anything Japanese.

 

[Premium]

My grandfather spent more than two years as a POW of the Japanese on the Burma railway, and as far as I know he never ever spoke of it other than to my father on a single occasion when he was drunk. He apparently assisted in the amputation of a fellow POW's gangrenous leg with little more than cutlery. My grandmother, as a then new young wife, only finally found out he was still alive when the Red Cross managed to get her a message he had written on a leaf. That leaf was still amongst her possessions when she died in her 80's. He was never again seen with his shirt off after he got back home, due to the scars on his back, and like your Dad, his medals lived in a sock drawer. When the Queen accepted the Emperor of Japan as a guest after the war, my grandfather apparently refused to speak to anyone for about two weeks.

Having grown up with this history so close to home, I tend to be somewhat dismissive of people claiming to be traumatized by "mansplaining" or someone not using their preferred pronouns.....

I think it was around 2000 I was walking around sightseeing in London while I was waiting on a flight to Brazil and I saw a massive crowd of people outside Buckingham Palace burning Japanese flags , I later realized one of the Royals from Japan was at the Palace and the people let them know all is not forgiven.
Japanese were shocking , anyone knowing what they did to the Chinese , Koreans will know why they are still hated in those countries.

 

[George]

Damn Japanese have to get involved in everything don't they, I bet they're also part of the reason for Zak Jones

3

Zak Jones

Age

29

Ht

182cm

Wt

84kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

17.8

4star

K

10.0

4star

HB

7.8

5star

M

3.4

3star

T

3.0

5star

CL

1.7

4star

D

19.1

4star

K

10.6

4star

HB

8.6

4star

M

3.4

3star

T

3.1

4star

CL

4.9

5star

D

7.0

2star

K

2.8

1star

HB

4.2

4star

M

1.0

1star

T

1.6

4star

CL

1.0

3star

' absence. Mitchito is most definitely an undercover spy working for them too...thanks for pointing out the Japanese connection guys, it's becoming alot clearer to me now

 

[CanadianSaint]

I hate to think it of how bad your grandfather suffered as a POW. I don't doubt that it had a profound effect on him for the rest of his life.

It's understandable that you are dismissive of people who are traumatised by seemingly lesser events. But is that right?

At the moment I tend to do the same thing. I have cancer. The likelihood is that it will take me out in the next few years. The treatment has been brutal. I ache all over, and I'm ready for bed by early evening. However I am too young to access my super, so I still haul myself to work everyday that I can, and will continue to do so until I can't. When I am there, I am surrounded by the pettiest squabbles. It does my head in and I am grumpy.

I do internally often think dismissively of these people. I want to say to them "Come see me when you have a real problem". But in the end I have to remind myself that these things are relative. The child screaming because the dog licked their ice-cream, may well really be having the worst day of their life. They may lack the skills to deal with that. Who am I to dismiss that? So I dig deep and find empathy, not for the seemingly petty cause, but for the real distress that another person is experiencing.

I watched my father go through this recently SK, it was heart braking to watch I can only imagine what it feels like. Good luck with the treatment and with getting a break around the super! Many of us will be sending you good thoughts (best we can do unfortunately) from across the globe, and i hope you have 4 or 5 Saints Premierships yet to see!

 

[CanadianSaint]

My grandfather spent more than two years as a POW of the Japanese on the Burma railway, and as far as I know he never ever spoke of it other than to my father on a single occasion when he was drunk. He apparently assisted in the amputation of a fellow POW's gangrenous leg with little more than cutlery. My grandmother, as a then new young wife, only finally found out he was still alive when the Red Cross managed to get her a message he had written on a leaf. That leaf was still amongst her possessions when she died in her 80's. He was never again seen with his shirt off after he got back home, due to the scars on his back, and like your Dad, his medals lived in a sock drawer. When the Queen accepted the Emperor of Japan as a guest after the war, my grandfather apparently refused to speak to anyone for about two weeks.

Having grown up with this history so close to home, I tend to be somewhat dismissive of people claiming to be traumatized by "mansplaining" or someone not using their preferred pronouns.....

Sorry for the really long post everyone.

I know this feeling, but from a different conflict with a similar result. My Grandfather was in Gallipoli in WW1, He signed up at 16, was too short (5'2") to be a lighthorseman so they put him in the ambulance core. Played in the footy game in front of the pyramids, and then shipped off to the peninsula. 10mins before landing, his paternal uncle and new ranking officer recognised him in the crowd and told the boat captain how old he was. He didn't step on the beach till the next day, every other man that got off that boat died.

Over the next few months he saw it all, Simpson and his Donkey, and Lone Pine. In one of the Battles he got caught in a trench and his best mate got spread all over him, the same explosion blew the back of both his knees out and knocked him out. When he woke up he was on the dead pile, it took him twenty mins to crawl out of it. My father loved that man, but was alway angry at him for not talking about the war more. He got this story out of him when he came home drunk (and he did this a lot) From the Brighton RSL one night. He told my dad the day he died that his medals were in a cigarette tin in the back garden.

My dad use to tell me I was a lot like him, calm and caring, when he wasn't drunk or having a nightmare about the war, then he was weird and angry (nothing more thank god).

Many years later, his war record was released and it gave us a whole different view of the man. We found out he was in the corps from late 1914 to 1921 when he was released and shipped home. He had punched two British officers in this time, one for ordering the death of hundreds of men, and one for calling him an antipodean, he didn't know what it meant but it sounded bad so... whack! We also found out that after learning to walk again, from 1916 on, he worked full time as a surgery assistant and nurse on the hospital ships in the Mediterranean. He spent 4 years watching men and some women die.

When he got home. he disappeared into the small towns of Victorian working as a tinker and trades man we think, we have no idea what he did for the next 18 years until he meet my Grandmother (39) and had two kids at close to 50. I cant imagine what he went through... I think if him and I think of this young indigenous kid I taught 2 years ago here in Canada. he had watched his girlfriend die in his arms after a suicide attempt that worked, two years earlier. I think... &%£& could I deal with that, then I look at my other students, going through there regular early 20s stuff and I think, thank God that its only regular *&^% they have to worry about, there biggest concern is if I called them "they" when I ask them to unpack the assignment i just gave them.

My Grandfather use to say. "I lost mates, they lost there lives, I'm lucky" and that all he'd say, it always stuck with me... Bad mental heath is a horrific thing!

 

[Verdun]

Sorry for the really long post everyone.

I know this feeling, but from a different conflict with a similar result. My Grandfather was in Gallipoli in WW1, He signed up at 16, was too short (5'2") to be a lighthorseman so they put him in the ambulance core. Played in the footy game in front of the pyramids, and then shipped off to the peninsula. 10mins before landing, his paternal uncle and new ranking officer recognised him in the crowd and told the boat captain how old he was. He didn't step on the beach till the next day, every other man that got off that boat died.

Over the next few months he saw it all, Simpson and his Donkey, and Lone Pine. In one of the Battles he got caught in a trench and his best mate got spread all over him, the same explosion blew the back of both his knees out and knocked him out. When he woke up he was on the dead pile, it took him twenty mins to crawl out of it. My father loved that man, but was alway angry at him for not talking about the war more. He got this story out of him when he came home drunk (and he did this a lot) From the Brighton RSL one night. He told my dad the day he died that his medals were in a cigarette tin in the back garden.

My dad use to tell me I was a lot like him, calm and caring, when he wasn't drunk or having a nightmare about the war, then he was weird and angry (nothing more thank god).

Many years later, his war record was released and it gave us a whole different view of the man. We found out he was in the corps from late 1914 to 1921 when he was released and shipped home. He had punched two British officers in this time, one for ordering the death of hundreds of men, and one for calling him an antipodean, he didn't know what it meant but it sounded bad so... whack! We also found out that after learning to walk again, from 1916 on, he worked full time as a surgery assistant and nurse on the hospital ships in the Mediterranean. He spent 4 years watching men and some women die.

When he got home. he disappeared into the small towns of Victorian working as a tinker and trades man we think, we have no idea what he did for the next 18 years until he meet my Grandmother (39) and had two kids at close to 50. I cant imagine what he went through... I think if him and I think of this young indigenous kid I taught 2 years ago here in Canada. he had watched his girlfriend die in his arms after a suicide attempt that worked, two years earlier. I think... &%£& could I deal with that, then I look at my other students, going through there regular early 20s stuff and I think, thank God that its only regular *&^% they have to worry about, there biggest concern is if I called them "they" when I ask them to unpack the assignment i just gave them.

My Grandfather use to say. "I lost mates, they lost there lives, I'm lucky" and that all he'd say, it always stuck with me... Bad mental heath is a horrific thing!

Great post mate, thanks for sharing.

The impact of trauma is significant.

 

[bird_man]

Anyone know if Zak has been on the track again this week?

 

[Jade Buddha]

Damn Japanese have to get involved in everything don't they, I bet they're also part of the reason for Zak Jones' absence. Mitchito is most definitely an undercover spy working for them too...thanks for pointing out the Japanese connection guys, it's becoming alot clearer to me now

Think a few Asahis will smooth it over

 

[George]

Think a few Asahis will smooth it over

Poison as far as I'm concerned after the revelations yesterday

 

[jay1987]

I hate to think it of how bad your grandfather suffered as a POW. I don't doubt that it had a profound effect on him for the rest of his life.

It's understandable that you are dismissive of people who are traumatised by seemingly lesser events. But is that right?

At the moment I tend to do the same thing. I have cancer. The likelihood is that it will take me out in the next few years. The treatment has been brutal. I ache all over, and I'm ready for bed by early evening. However I am too young to access my super, so I still haul myself to work everyday that I can, and will continue to do so until I can't. When I am there, I am surrounded by the pettiest squabbles. It does my head in and I am grumpy.

I do internally often think dismissively of these people. I want to say to them "Come see me when you have a real problem". But in the end I have to remind myself that these things are relative. The child screaming because the dog licked their ice-cream, may well really be having the worst day of their life. They may lack the skills to deal with that. Who am I to dismiss that? So I dig deep and find empathy, not for the seemingly petty cause, but for the real distress that another person is experiencing.

I’m sorry to hear of your battle, you may be able to access a total permanent disability pay out it is usually included in you super insurance premiums and is seperate to your super, and can be accessed if you are unable to work.

 

[Sarcoidevo]

Anyone know if Zak has been on the track again this week?

They showed the boys at the pool in AFL Tonight and I thought I saw Zac with them ... bald with one arm/shoulder tatted up?

 

[moirae42]

He was there alright.