Opinion 2015 Starting 22 for Round 1

[sante]

We don't get smashed in the air, generally.

Cloke got hold of Rance 2 seasons ago, Warnock got the better of the centre bounces in the 2013 EF, but in 2014, I don't really remember us getting our smashings in the air. So, I'm not sure Maric, Vickery and Griffiths can all play on the ground at the same time, especially if we have Rance, Chaplin and Astbury all in the back half.

IMO, our poorest performances in 2014, as a whole team, came when we 1) don't win the contested ground ball, 2) didn't spread well, both ways.

My best 22, for what it's worth, is hoping for a little more grunt and poke around the packs, and good coverage over the open grass through the middle.

FB: Morris, Astbury, Grimes
HB: Houli, Rance, Lennon
C: Ellis, Cotchin, Edwards
HF: Deledio, Griffiths, Knights
FF: Martin, Riewoldt, Pettard
Fol: Maric, Miles, Vlaustin

I: Hunt, McDonough, Foley, Grigg (s)

So, depending who we are playing, I'd leave out Vickery and Chaplin. I think Pettard and Grimes (respectively) give almost as much in the air and cover the ground a lot quicker.

No room for Conca? I personally think Foley will struggle to be best 22 as the year unfolds. I think we will go with both Tyrone and Griff and be shorter in defence. Out of Astbury/Grimes though, Chaplin is a lock unfortunately

 

[theflea]

No room for Conca? I personally think Foley will struggle to be best 22 as the year unfolds. I think we will go with both Tyrone and Griff and be shorter in defence. Out of Astbury/Grimes though, Chaplin is a lock unfortunately

Definitely think it is out of Grimes and Chaplin to fight out for a place if Astbury plays.

 

[sante]

Definitely think it is out of Grimes and Chaplin to fight out for a place if Astbury plays.

Will be interesting. I can't see them not playing Chaplin but Grimes and Astbury are rated highly.

 

[theflea]

Will be interesting. I can't see them not playing Chaplin but Grimes and Astbury are rated highly.

Yeah agree, I cant see us playing 4 x 193cm+ players in the same places. Just too tall.

 

[bananatigz]

Yeh don't think you can play more than 3 talls at either end, whether they even play 3 in the forward line is up for debate. Rance and Astbury when fit are not up for debate, FB and CHB locked away there. Chaplin being part of the leadership group and a senior player I have no doubt will get the third tall role, which he can play pretty effectively so not too fussed with that. Grimes will either need to displace Chaplin or shed some kgs and either play small or really work on his rebound game. I get the feeling they really want to play Grimes regardless though, sadly ditto Hampson, so getting the team structure right will be really important

 

[theflea]

Yeh don't think you can play more than 3 talls at either end, whether they even play 3 in the forward line is up for debate. Rance and Astbury when fit are not up for debate, FB and CHB locked away there. Chaplin being part of the leadership group and a senior player I have no doubt will get the third tall role, which he can play pretty effectively so not too fussed with that. Grimes will either need to displace Chaplin or shed some kgs and either play small or really work on his rebound game. I get the feeling they really want to play Grimes regardless though, sadly ditto Hampson, so getting the team structure right will be really important

Snap again.

 

[_RT_]

Yeah agree, I cant see us playing 4 x 193cm+ players in the same places. Just too tall.

IMO they can, Geelong play Lonergan(197cm), Taylor(193), Rivers(192) & Mackie(192), Hawthorn play Spangher(195) Lake(195) Birchall(193) & Gibson(189), Pies have Keeffe(204) Brown(195), Frost(194) & Langdon(191). Pretty sure there are others, but that is just an example of sides who played 4 tall players in the back line last year. The key is having one of them capable of playing as a medium sized defender. Grimes IMO can play that sort of medium/small role that would allow Rance Astbury & Chaplin to play on the genuine talls.

An example of Grimes playing like this is the game against the Giants at the MCG. Grimes spent most of the game on WHE who is not a KPF by any stretch and looked good in doing so. For mine a back line comprising of Rance Chaplin Astbury as the tall defenders, Grimes & Batchelor as medium sized defenders and Houli & Morris as the small defenders is a solid group to build on for the long run.

 

[theflea]

IMO they can, Geelong play Lonergan(197cm), Taylor(193), Rivers(192) & Mackie(192), Hawthorn play Spangher(195) Lake(195) Birchall(193) & Gibson(189), Pies have Keeffe(204) Brown(195), Frost(194) & Langdon(191). Pretty sure there are others, but that is just an example of sides who played 4 tall players in the back line last year. The key is having one of them capable of playing as a medium sized defender. Grimes IMO can play that sort of medium/small role that would allow Rance Astbury & Chaplin to play on the genuine talls.

An example of Grimes playing like this is the game against the Giants at the MCG. Grimes spent most of the game on WHE who is not a KPF by any stretch and looked good in doing so. For mine a back line comprising of Rance Chaplin Astbury as the tall defenders, Grimes & Batchelor as medium sized defenders and Houli & Morris as the small defenders is a solid group to build on for the long run.

Ha your examples show not 4 x 193cm+. But I understand your point, but it highlight's mine. The 4 cant play as KPD's(my original point), 1 must play as a rebounding or running defender, which imo is the biggest hurdle. Grimes being the odd man out would have to be great as a 3rd man up and take the marks( then what is Chaplin for ?), but is he good enough to do this? Does he get it enough in that role? Does he kick it well enough? That is the problem we face. Imo I would prefer a mid in that role, who can also rotate thru other parts of the ground.

 

[_RT_]

Ha your examples show not 4 x 193cm+. But I understand your point, but it highlight's mine. The 4 cant play as KPD's(my original point), 1 must play as a rebounding or running defender, which imo is the biggest hurdle. Grimes being the odd man out would have to be great as a 3rd man up and take the marks( then what is Chaplin for ?), but is he good enough to do this? Does he get it enough in that role? Does he kick it well enough? That is the problem we face. Imo I would prefer a mid in that role, who can also rotate thru other parts of the ground.

Asking a midfielder to play that role is a waste IMO. You're robbing Peter to pay Paul so to speak. The 7 I named are defenders first and foremost so you're not going to get that attack first mentality of a midfielder. What we need to happen is the likes of Grimes & Batchelor find the balance between being defensive and ball winning, if they can do that it will allow us to use our midfielders where they can do their best work.

 

[Tango67]

none of grimes, chaplan, morris or Batch are considered creative runners with good skills?
Thats why playing all 4 of them is a recipe for disaster IMO... at the moment the only running back flanker we have is houli and he is a deer in the headlights when the pressure is applied...
Conca, Lennon, Hunt and Vlastuin change that back 6 immediately

 

[TigerImposter]

Snap.

Crackle!Pop!^^^^^

 

[_RT_]

none of grimes, chaplan, morris or Batch are considered creative runners with good skills?
Thats why playing all 4 of them is a recipe for disaster IMO... at the moment the only running back flanker we have is houli and he is a deer in the headlights when the pressure is applied...
Conca, Lennon, Hunt and Vlastuin change that back 6 immediately

You realise that when we won the 9 games in a row, Chaplin Grimes Batchelor and Morris were all part of our back 6.

 

[Capitano_Cotch]

Morris Astbury Chaplin
Vlastuin Rance Houli
Ellis Cotchin Hunt
Martin Griffiths Deledio
Edwards Riewoldt Vickery

Maric Miles Conca

Petterd Foley Lennon Batchelor

 

[TheAnt]

IMO they can, Geelong play Lonergan(197cm), Taylor(193), Rivers(192) & Mackie(192), Hawthorn play Spangher(195) Lake(195) Birchall(193) & Gibson(189), Pies have Keeffe(204) Brown(195), Frost(194) & Langdon(191).

All are genuine rebounders. Grimes would have to re-invent himself a little.

 

[Mogwai]

Astbury Grimes Newman
Batchelor Darrou Dea
McIntosh Hunt Foley
McDonough Elton Edwards
Gordon McBean Lloyd
Soldo Helbig Arnot Miles

INT: 2nd rounder 3rd rounder 4th rounder rookie ruck
Because screw our first rounders, second pick onwards talent is what we need! Can't say Newman is stifling anyone in this list. Everyone wins! Except for Richmond.

 

[Tango67]

You realise that when we won the 9 games in a row, Chaplin Grimes Batchelor and Morris were all part of our back 6.

They were also there for the EF and most there for the first 13 weeks as well
The difference for the 9 in a row was Rance, Maric, Deledio and Cotchin and a change in attitude and playing style

 

[unfoley926]

My best 22

Backs Morris Astbury Chaplin
HB. Houli. Rance. Lids
Centre. Ellis. Cotchin. Gordon
HF. Edwards. Griffs. Knights
Fwd. Lloyd. Vickery. Riewoldt

Foll. Maric Miles Martin

Int. Conca Batchelor Foley McDonagh

Sub. Lennon

Needs for mine a jet HBF pace and good kick coming out of defence. I would love Lids there but he's so valuable in the forward

 

[Tango67]

My best 22

Backs Morris Astbury Chaplin
HB. Houli. Rance. Lids
Centre. Ellis. Cotchin. Gordon
HF. Edwards. Griffs. Knights
Fwd. Lloyd. Vickery. Riewoldt

Foll. Maric Miles Martin

Int. Conca Batchelor Foley McDonagh

Sub. Lennon

Needs for mine a jet HBF pace and good kick coming out of defence. I would love Lids there but he's so valuable in the forward

Vlastuin, conca and hunt are best 22

 

[bananatigz]

You realise that when we won the 9 games in a row, Chaplin Grimes Batchelor and Morris were all part of our back 6.

Have to add Astbury and Rance to that.

For me playing all of Morris, Astbury, Chaplin, Rance, Grimes and Batchelor leaves us a bit one-dimensional against quality opposition. I'd say the first 4 are locked in along with Houli, and while you could probably squeeze Grimes and Batch in, I think we look a bit slow and would struggle for rebound

B: Morris, Astbury, Chaplin
HB: Houli, Rance, Grimes
I: Batchelor

Probably denies say Lennon and Hunt games, who I think suit the structure of the backline better when you look at who is in there, they would provide a lot more run than Grimes and Batch. Think transition out of defence is something we struggle with and with the above backline we would continue to do so.

 

[theflea]

Asking a midfielder to play that role is a waste IMO. You're robbing Peter to pay Paul so to speak. The 7 I named are defenders first and foremost so you're not going to get that attack first mentality of a midfielder. What we need to happen is the likes of Grimes & Batchelor find the balance between being defensive and ball winning, if they can do that it will allow us to use our midfielders where they can do their best work.

Of course we would do that but again they have to be able to be good rebounders. Having another mid( when I say mid I call all players essentially mids apart from KPP's), which half backs' essentially are these days, gives us another quality ball user, ball getter and play setter. If we had that with our tall stocks that were really good in this area, then of course we wouldn't need this, but since we don't, then we do need these types. Not a waste at all imo.

 

[theflea]

none of grimes, chaplan, morris or Batch are considered creative runners with good skills?
Thats why playing all 4 of them is a recipe for disaster IMO... at the moment the only running back flanker we have is houli and he is a deer in the headlights when the pressure is applied...
Conca, Lennon, Hunt and Vlastuin change that back 6 immediately

Agree with the first sentiment, but disagree he is a dear in the head lights player. Imo he has come on big time in the area. Put it this way, I don't think Malcheski is a particularly good 1 on 1 defender, but he is a gun HBF. Rampe is a much better defender per se.

 

[unfoley926]

Vlastuin, conca and hunt are best 22

Yep your right, I have conca in already

My best 22

Backs Morris Astbury Chaplin
HB. Houli. Rance. Lids
Centre. Ellis. Cotchin. Gordon
HF. Edwards Griffs. Knights
Fwd. Lloyd. Vickery. Riewoldt

Foll. Maric Miles Martin

Int. Conca Foley Vlas Hunt

Sub. Lennon

 

[TheAnt]

I'd like McIntosh to come on, he's versatile enough to play that 4th tall/rebounding role.

 

[_RT_]

All are genuine rebounders. Grimes would have to re-invent himself a little.

The return of Astbury should help with that, when Astbury went out Grimes had to revert to a 3rd tall role, only occasionally getting to play a rebounding role.

Have to add Astbury and Rance to that.

For me playing all of Morris, Astbury, Chaplin, Rance, Grimes and Batchelor leaves us a bit one-dimensional against quality opposition. I'd say the first 4 are locked in along with Houli, and while you could probably squeeze Grimes and Batch in, I think we look a bit slow and would struggle for rebound

B: Morris, Astbury, Chaplin
HB: Houli, Rance, Grimes
I: Batchelor

Probably denies say Lennon and Hunt games, who I think suit the structure of the backline better when you look at who is in there, they would provide a lot more run than Grimes and Batch. Think transition out of defence is something we struggle with and with the above backline we would continue to do so.

Of course we would do that but again they have to be able to be good rebounders. Having another mid( when I say mid I call all players essentially mids apart from KPP's), which half backs' essentially are these days, gives us another quality ball user, ball getter and play setter. If we had that with our tall stocks that were really good in this area, then of course we wouldn't need this, but since we don't, then we do need these types. Not a waste at all imo.

As I said last night, having that 7 as the back line, allows us to use the midfielders where they can do the most damage. As for getting the play making and rebounding from defence, that is where 2 way running from our midfielders becomes important. Having them push deep into the back line and giving them a chop out will provide that rebound and give us that play making we want, without sacrificing anyone. From the side I posted in the OP if Grimes comes in it releases Vlastuin to the midfield and probably means one of Knights, Petterd or Grigg misses and we don't really lose anything in doing so.

 

[Tango67]

Here's a tip, if you have run and creativity from your HB line and a back pocket it makes your mids have to work less and enables them to link up in the midfield and run forward this puts pressure on the opposition as they need to leave their men to plug the loose overlap and opens up the fwd half.

If your mids are doing all the running from your back half then they need to be super fit to keep it up all day and it means your fwds have to provide the link in the middle of the ground often leaving loose defenders inside 50 waiting to intercept the delivery.

If you want to win finals you need at least 3 defenders that are capable of defending 1 on 1 and creating attack and run from defence, that's what cuts teams up