Opinion 2015 Starting 22 for Round 1

[Rayzorwire]

But Richo wasn't a gun 1 on 1 defender. We'd be robbing Peter to pay Paul, significantly weakening our defence for probably not much gain in offense as Rance already provides a hell of a lot of drive out of the back half as is.

Richo was the leading goalkicker at the club for a decade and a half when he was moved to the wing, it was very much seen as robbing Peter to pay Paul, while deep into his 30's it was widely questioned whether he still had the athleticism to play the role, or whether his often dodgy field kicking would mean he is way more liability than asset up field.

Rance isn't Richo.

Astbury, Chaplin and Grimes aren't good enough on their own to hold the defence.

Chaplin's not in my side for the same reason Houli and Grigg aren't - I don't think they're good enough or anywhere near hard enough to play in a side which seriously challenges for a flag. They've all been allowed to get away with being far too soft.

I'd argue that Astbury has actually shown more than Rance did as a pure key defender at a similar stage of his development. Rance obviously had some great qualities, but it took a lot of work on the aerial contested stuff and his balance before he was considered solid defensively.

If we ever needed to swing Rance back to defense mid-game, it's always an option.

We're such a 'sliced white bread' unit at the moment under Hardwick, we need to develop a lot more ways to give opposition coaches headaches.

Playing a bloke like Rance in a roaming running role, you've created a situation where anyone who can run with him will get smashed in the air, anyone who can match him in the air won't keep up for long.

If he's taking 15 marks a game, winning clearances against smaller bodies and getting 30+ possessions, many of them link-up handballs through the corridor, he's a king-size headache.

Also Griffiths has been tried at CHB and was woeful in that position, barely had an impact at VFL level trying to play that role. Having just put a solid 12 months of development into him as CHF/ruck sending him back to defence again will just stuff him around even more.

Fair point, he hasn't excelled in the role, he ended up there because I'd like to see us smaller and classier in attack (just the two talls with one of them the resting ruck) and I'd like to see Chaplin spend a lot of time in the VFL.

Shits me to tears having watched Bowden and Newman play short, safe, sideways and selfish for so long, we finally get through that era where it was utterly impossible to have a quality, fast rebounding defence with them playing there, then we go and pay overs to import another one and let him get away with it too.

 

[nut]

Shits me to tears having watched Bowden and Newman play short, safe, sideways and selfish for so long, we finally get through that era where it was utterly impossible to have a quality, fast rebounding defence with them playing there, then we go and pay overs to import another one and let him get away with it too.

I agree with Newman and Chaplin playing the easy option and seem more concerned with their DE rather than attaicking the game. Thats where I disagree with you re:Rance. He is our most attacking defender and with out his drive and smarts out of defence the balance shifts back to a dull, easy option, slow ball movement negative defence.

I'd love to see Griffith hold down CHF.... it would make us a top 4 side.. its the missing link and it would open up another avenue via a hit up forward.... his long kicking deep into the forward line with Jackr and McBean benefiting from fast and open entries with Edwards Deledio/Martin mopping up and we have the forward line we need.

 

[Rayzorwire]

Thats where I disagree with you re:Rance. He is our most attacking defender and with out his drive and smarts out of defence the balance shifts back to a dull, easy option, slow ball movement negative defence.

Absolutely, nut, saw it happen this year, but to me that's a coaching issue more than personnel.

I'd love to see Griffith hold down CHF.... it would make us a top 4 side.. its the missing link and it would open up another avenue via a hit up forward.... his long kicking deep into the forward line with Jackr and McBean benefiting from fast and open entries with Edwards Deledio/Martin mopping up and we have the forward line we need.

The fact Griff is a line breaker with his kicking makes him an exciting prospect. Talls who can break lines are just so valuable.

 

[nut]

Absolutely, nut, saw it happen this year, but to me that's a coaching issue more than personnel.

I agree with you that our coaching saw a natural attacking and dangerous defender in Morris turn into a run of the mill defender and we lost a huge weapon of 2013.
Batchelor took along time to regain his natural game also.
Its another reason why Rance must stay back IMO.... he defies what the others have been brainwashed into doing....

Its the number 1 thing I will looking at during the pre-season games along with our structures around stoppages and how our mids move whilst the ball is in the air. If we are flat footed than dont expect us catching the top 4 sides in a hurry.

 

[Tango67]

we need guys with flair and creativity in the back half, guys that will take the game on and tuck the ball under their arm, that creates overlaps and breaks down defences, but these guys also need to be able to kick the ball and make good decisions or else we killed on the turnover and hold their own defensively against an opponent otherwise they get taken to the goal square and be exposed ...
Morris, Dea, Newman, Batchelor, Chaplin - none of them have this IMO and Houli (Run)has half but not the other..

Thats why i would look at guys like Hunt, Conca, Lennon, Vlastuin, Ellis in the defensive half..

 

[Mr Magic]

we need guys widefenders and creativity in the back half, guys that will take the game on and tuck the ball under their arm, that creates overlaps and breaks down defences, but these guys also need to be able to kick the ball and make good decisions or else we killed on the turnover and hold their own defensively against an opponent otherwise they get taken to the goal square and be exposed ...
Morris, Dea, Newman, Batchelor, Chaplin - none of them have this IMO and Houli (Run)has half but not the other..

Thats why i would look at guys like Hunt, Conca, Lennon, Vlastuin, Ellis in the defensive half..

None of those guys have it either and Ellis and Lennon are not defenders which is why we need Lever and Howe at half back.

Even Rance lacks the offensive precision and his agility means he is best suited on the full back line.

I think RFC would be close to the worst defense in the comp if you take the mids running back out if it. The fact Rance is in that group just shows how far off it some of the others are!

 

[Tiger_man322]

I'll give it a crack

B: Morris Rance Grimes

HB: Newman Chaplin Houli

C: Hunt Cotchin Ellis

HF: Lids Griff Conca

F: Edwards Riewoldt Martin

Fol: Maric, Vlas, Foley

Inter: Lennon, Gordan, Grigg

Sub: ?

 

[SumTingWong]

Houli Astbury Elton
Mcintosh Rance Deledio
Cavka Miles Ellis
Martin Griffiths Cotchin
Weller Riewoldt McBean
Maric Gore Hunt
Vlastuin Conca Mcdonough Lennon

 

[Stylo]

Houli Astbury Elton
Mcintosh Rance Deledio
Cavka Miles Ellis
Martin Griffiths Cotchin
Weller Riewoldt McBean
Maric Gore Hunt
Vlastuin Conca Mcdonough Lennon

I see what you did there... And I like it

 

[Heisenberg_]

Seriously moving Rance out of the back line would be a error of Hampson proportions. Our defense was absolute trash with little to no organisation and even less offensive drive when he was out injured.

Comparisons to moving Richo to the wing, it's just not the same situation at all. Richo was coming to the end and holding up the development of Roewoldt and he was just a freak. Rance is a AA defender about to enter his prime, it wouldn't happen but moving one of our most important players would create a king size problem a and any potential gains on the wing wouldn't make up for how many goals we would leak.

 

[Mogwai]

HF: Elton Griffiths Vickery
FF: McBean McKenzie Riewoldt

 

[Groupie_]

Ellis forced Grigg out of the team

 

[Grockadoc]

Ellis forced Grigg out of the team

Wouldn't mind seeing Drummond in for Grigg either. Maybe even Ellis for Grigg and Drummond for Newman.

 

[Groupie_]

and delist Mcintosh

 

[_RT_]

Senior Side
B: Steven Morris 64 games 25 years old 185cm 83kg David Astbury 37 games 23 years old 195cm 96kg Troy Chaplin 185 games 28 years old 195cm 99kg

HB: Bachar Houli 114 games 26 years old 180cm 84kg Alex Rance 107 games 25 years old 194cm 96kg Taylor Hunt 63 games 24 years old 183cm 80kg

C: Reece Conca 71 games 22 years old 185cm 83kg Nick Vlastuin 38 games 20 years old 187cm 86kg Brandon Ellis 65 games 21 years old 181cm 81kg

HF: Brett Deledio 214 games 27 years old 188cm 88kg Ben Griffiths 35 games 23 years old 200cm 104kg Dustin Martin 108 games 23 years old 187cm 89kg

F: Tyrone Vickery 87 games 24 years old 200cm 97kg Jack Riewoldt 157 games 26 years old 195cm 94 kg Shane Edwards 152 games 26 years old 182cm 83kg

R: Ivan Maric 132 games 28 years old 200cm 102kg Trent Cotchin 131 games 24 years old 185cm 85 kg Anthony Miles 23 games 22 years old 179cm 78kg

INT: Ricky Petterd 83 games 26 years old 185cm 85kg Jake Batchelor 52 games 22 years old 188cm 88kg Shaun Grigg 124 games 26 years old 190cm 85kg Ben Lennon 19 years old 7 games 190cm 79kg

VFL Side
B: Matt Dea 31 games 23 years old 186cm 86kg Dylan Grimes 45 games 23 years old 193cm 88kg Kamdyn McIntosh 20 year old 0 games 192cm 87kg

HB: Chris Newman 32 years old 251 games 183cm 81kg Todd Elton 21 years old 1 game 197cm 97kg Connor Menadue 18 year old 0 games 188cm 69kg

C: Nathan Drummond 19 years old 0 games Corey Ellis 18 years old 0 games 185cm 76kg Nathan Gordon 24 years old 14 games 188cm 86kg

HF: Matt McDonough 20 years old 8 games 180cm 84kg Reece McKenzie 18 years old 0 games 196cm 100kg Chris Knights 101 games 28 years old 184cm 84kg

F: Sam Lloyd 24 years old 8 games 182cm 84kg Liam McBean 20 year old 0 games 202cm 86kg Daniel Butler 18 years old 0 games 181cm 79kg

R: Shaun Hampson 26 year old 74 games 201cm 104kg Matt Thomas 27 year old 100 games 186cm 87kg Nathan Foley 29 year old 154 games 178cm 79kg

INT: Ivan Soldo 18 year old 0 games 200cm 102kg Matt Arnot 21 year old 8 games 180cm 86kg

After the National draft the side doesn't change much but the VFL side looks a lot more structured to how the senior side will line up. The one change I have made to my line up is Lennon coming into the side while Knights drops back to the VFL. That allows Hunt to move to HB, Deledio to HF, Conca to the wing and Vlastuin into the guts.

Looking at the make up of the 2 sides the rookie draft picks I'd like us to take are a KPD and another mid sized defender. For the KPD Sean McLaren Michael Hartley or Ryan Tester. Mid sized defender Josh Glenn Adam Saad Daniel Capiron or Jason Castagna

 

[theflea]

Senior Side
B: Steven Morris 64 games 25 years old 185cm 83kg David Astbury 37 games 23 years old 195cm 96kg Troy Chaplin 185 games 28 years old 195cm 99kg

HB: Bachar Houli 114 games 26 years old 180cm 84kg Alex Rance 107 games 25 years old 194cm 96kg Taylor Hunt 63 games 24 years old 183cm 80kg

C: Reece Conca 71 games 22 years old 185cm 83kg Nick Vlastuin 38 games 20 years old 187cm 86kg Brandon Ellis 65 games 21 years old 181cm 81kg

HF: Brett Deledio 214 games 27 years old 188cm 88kg Ben Griffiths 35 games 23 years old 200cm 104kg Dustin Martin 108 games 23 years old 187cm 89kg

F: Tyrone Vickery 87 games 24 years old 200cm 97kg Jack Riewoldt 157 games 26 years old 195cm 94 kg Shane Edwards 152 games 26 years old 182cm 83kg

R: Ivan Maric 132 games 28 years old 200cm 102kg Trent Cotchin 131 games 24 years old 185cm 85 kg Anthony Miles 23 games 22 years old 179cm 78kg

INT: Ricky Petterd 83 games 26 years old 185cm 85kg Jake Batchelor 52 games 22 years old 188cm 88kg Shaun Grigg 124 games 26 years old 190cm 85kg Ben Lennon 19 years old 7 games 190cm 79kg

VFL Side
B: Matt Dea 31 games 23 years old 186cm 86kg Dylan Grimes 45 games 23 years old 193cm 88kg Kamdyn McIntosh 20 year old 0 games 192cm 87kg

HB: Chris Newman 32 years old 251 games 183cm 81kg Todd Elton 21 years old 1 game 197cm 97kg Connor Menadue 18 year old 0 games 188cm 69kg

C: Nathan Drummond 19 years old 0 games Corey Ellis 18 years old 0 games 185cm 76kg Nathan Gordon 24 years old 14 games 188cm 86kg

HF: Matt McDonough 20 years old 8 games 180cm 84kg Reece McKenzie 18 years old 0 games 196cm 100kg Chris Knights 101 games 28 years old 184cm 84kg

F: Sam Lloyd 24 years old 8 games 182cm 84kg Liam McBean 20 year old 0 games 202cm 86kg Daniel Butler 18 years old 0 games 181cm 79kg

R: Shaun Hampson 26 year old 74 games 201cm 104kg Matt Thomas 27 year old 100 games 186cm 87kg Nathan Foley 29 year old 154 games 178cm 79kg

INT: Ivan Soldo 18 year old 0 games 200cm 102kg Matt Arnot 21 year old 8 games 180cm 86kg

After the National draft the side doesn't change much but the VFL side looks a lot more structured to how the senior side will line up. The one change I have made to my line up is Lennon coming into the side while Knights drops back to the VFL. That allows Hunt to move to HB, Deledio to HF, Conca to the wing and Vlastuin into the guts.

Looking at the make up of the 2 sides the rookie draft picks I'd like us to take are a KPD and another mid sized defender. For the KPD Sean McLaren Michael Hartley or Ryan Tester. Mid sized defender Josh Glenn Adam Saad Daniel Capiron or Jason Castagna

Like the senior team but would have Gordon in for Grigg. Batchelor stays in as Hunt will tag more and we may need him in the backline.

 

[unfoley926]

With our new recruits is getting really tough to put a team on paper with so many options available, ohyeah!

 

[Tough tigs]

Don't know why people are leaving out Newman honestly, he's mobile for an old man, more mobile then troy Chaplin, and in my opinion David astbury, he's useful at both ends of the ground, not sure how many goals he kicked this year, but it'll probably be more than any of our other defenders (permenant ones) he's not slowing down, don't let the calf injury he had fool you, (pretty sure it was the calf) people have Ben Lennon taking his place, which in my opinion isn't likely.

 

[Infamy]

Don't know why people are leaving out Newman honestly, he's mobile for an old man, more mobile then troy Chaplin, and in my opinion David astbury, he's useful at both ends of the ground, not sure how many goals he kicked this year, but it'll probably be more than any of our other defenders (permenant ones) he's not slowing down, don't let the calf injury he had fool you, (pretty sure it was the calf) people have Ben Lennon taking his place, which in my opinion isn't likely.

You are comparing a midfielder size players mobility to a couple of players who are both 195cm?!?!?!
I think you need a better comparison to justify Newman keeping his spot

 

[Tough tigs]

You are comparing a midfielder size players mobility to a couple of players who are both 195cm?!?!?!
I think you need a better comparison to justify Newman keeping his spot

Size shouldn't matter too much, look how mobile some of our taller blokes are Liam McBean, ben Griffiths, his ability to kick goals is a clear advantage, his run and carry is underacted, and I know you can turn around and say "Chaplin is a one on one player ect" but back in 2005 onwards when Newman was cemented in the side, he had a role similar aswell, but he still had the same impacts, I personally rate him higher then most of our defenders due to these reasons, keep in mind these our my opinions.

 

[Reservoir tiger]

B: grimes Astbury chaplain
HB: houli Rance Vlastuin
C: deledio Cotch Ellis
Hf: conca Vickery Lennon
F: Martin Riewoldt Griffifths
Foll: maric Miles edwards
inter: petterd newman mcdonough
Sub: foley
Emerg: batchelor grigg morris ellis

 

[BeefTaco]

B: Morris Astbury Chaplin
HB: Houli Rance Hunt
C: Ellis Cotchin Delidio
HF: Martin Griffiths Knights
F: Edwards Riewolt Vickery
R: Maric Miles Conca
Int: Grimes Vlastuin Lennon
Sub: Gordan

Emerg: Lloyd Newman Grigg

I think having knights up and firing would give our team so much flexibility. Having two of deledio Martin and knights down there at all times and rotating through the middle and cotchin to go down there would make us extremely dangerous and would be good to save stamina for our stars to run out 4 quarters.
We need Conca to especially come on and lock up a spot in the centre with vlas to improve and play more midfield.

The bench was a toughy for me. Just have no idea I think it's gonna come down to pre season form and I hope the likes of Newman and grigg etc aren't gifted games on the back of being here for longer. If there's someone playing better, play them.
Gordan as a super sub for me as well

 

[Stylo]

I reckon Drummond might be our super sub toward the end of the year. Seems a perfect impact player

 

[BeefTaco]

I reckon Drummond might be our super sub toward the end of the year. Seems a perfect impact player

Would love if he did

 

[bananatigz]

B: Morris, Astbury, Chaplin
HB: Houli, Rance, Hunt
C: B.Ellis, Vlastuin, Deledio
HF: Martin, Griffiths, Knights
F: Edwards, Vickery, Reiwoldt
R: Maric, Cotchin, Miles
I: Conca, Lennon, Petterd, Gordon

Lot of flexibilty in this side, Hunt, Lennon, Petterd, Conca and Vlastuin all rotating between mid/back while Edwards, Martin, Cotch, Deledio, Knights and Gordon all rotating through mid/fwd. Miles can just stay at the clearances all day. Feel the KPD situation is really solid with Astbury and Rance being our premier lock down defenders, allowing Chaplin to play the floating quarterback third tall role we all know he's good at. Key forwards have the potential to be monstrous, Griffiths playing the lead up CHF role where he can play to his strengths, Vickery playing at full forward where he plainly and simply just kicks goals (was on track to kick almost 40 goals if he'd played 22 games last season even though the consensus was he was poor) and Jack allowed to roam anywhere he likes in the forward half, exceptionally smart footballer and i'm sure he'd like that role. Potential to kick a lot of goals from those 3 to add to the swarm of goal kicking midfielders we have.

B: Dea, Grimes, McIntosh
HB: Newman, Elton, Batchelor
C: Menuade, Arnot, Grigg
HF: McDonough, McKenzie, C.Ellis
F: Lloyd, McBean, Butler
R: Hampson, Foley, Thomas
I: Drummond, Soldo, Rookies

You supplement that VFL side with a couple of quality top ups, maybe an established key forward to give Bean and Mctruck a hand and that's a pretty handy VFL side I would have thought. Guys like Newman, Grigg, Foley are immediate depth and all could likely feature round 1, and guys like Grimes, Batchelor and McDonough you'd hope would force their way into the best 22 throughout the year if they can play well enough. Can see Drummond certainly playing games, C.Ellis towards the second half of the year and potentially Menuade as well depending on whether his weight holds him back a bit early on. Lot to work with there.