Knightmare
Brownlow Medallist
- Sep 22, 2010
- 19,533
- 19,542
- AFL Club
- Collingwood
- Other Teams
- Chicago Bulls
- Thread starter
- Banned
- #2,976
With Rockliff it depends on expectations.
My comments were from memory a prediction of 2018 performance (assuming no injuries and full healthy to all).
With Rockliff, his form through the first eight rounds (before a shoulder issue) was in my view of a clear best 20 standard. That's the player I expect to see, as opposed to the second half of season, shell of himself version.
Laird had a terrific season and would be in the top 20 midfield conversation. I view him more as a back though given that's where he plays most of his footy, he's a clear top five general defender. Docherty is obviously out for next season. He has had a remarkable two seasons now. Outside types I find more difficult to credit to the same extent as those genuine ball winners, but due to a different role, I'd also categorise them differently, and separate them from onballers. Docherty provides meaningful drive and gets a ton of it. He just doesn't win much of it contested and he needs the lines of Cripps among other midfielders winning it in order to be effective. He was the premier outside mid in 2016. That's probably hard to dispute.
Cripps I rate highly based on my expectations stemming from his 2016 form. Last year was a below expectation year (though he still featured higher on averages per game in each of these categories v Cotch), and it's a season he'll easily improve on most will assume in 2018. What places Cripps so high is the % of ball he wins in the contest and how many clearances he wins. 354 contested/215 uncontested in 2016 with 185 clearances. He's a monster and can improve on those numbers. Placing outright first for clearances per game (1.2 per game ahead of Josh Kennedy who placed second) and equal first for centre clearances per game with Dangerfield. Second overall for contested possessions, 0.1 behind Josh Kennedy and 0.6 ahead of the next best. He is already special.
If you're asking me round 1 2018. Do I want Cotchin or Cripps? Give me Cripps. He may come outright first in each of the three key categories in 2018 - contested possessions, clearances and centre clearances. Cotchin probably hovers somewhere around 20-25 in each in 2018 which is in line with his normal output. They're among the stats that matter and most impact on winning.
A lot of people hold Kelly in regard this high. And I know precisely why. Excellent ball user. Covers an insane amount of ground each game. Production is there - disposals, tackles. Clearances, i50s and contested possessions all strong, hits the scoreboard for a solid number of goals per game. He's a complete player. No dispute from me.
The only debate is whether he would rank amongst his peers. And a lot of it will come back to which elements of the game you consider most vital to winning.
If you prioritise endurance and skills. Kelly would be rated higher. If you consider contested possessions, clearances and centre clearances more vital to winning. You're rate Kelly relatively lower. I fit into the latter and as such rate Kelly outside of my top 5.
In just midfielders, it is fairly simple to rate Dangerfield, Martin (presumably consensus top 2 mids in the game at the moment), Fyfe (given sheer contested possessions/clearances/centre clearances - in addition to marking capabilities forward of centre), Ablett (complete game, production with better contested side to his game and much higher impact forward of centre) and Pendlebury also better ball winner/stoppage player with higher level skills/composure in traffic again by comparison to Kelly, all favourably to Kelly.
Fyfe is a shocking kick, and Kelly is obviously a far better kick, Fyfe's argument is the way he impacts games in the contested and stoppage elements in addition to his dominant marking when he pushes forward of centre. He has claims to be the more influential and important to winning.
