Who did well out of the trade/FA period?

[HighettBomber]

You really are struggling here so I will help you. No we didnt have any key defenders thats why recruited a fullback and s CHB both we paid unders for. McEvoy we traded for two top 20 picks and a player that played 15 games for the premiers. Savage would walk into Ess best 22. Longer we got for a steal and covers the loss of Big Ben. Dal is 30 and while he us still a good player we have others that need game time in his role. Massive win this trade period.

You recruited a kid who may become a decent KPD and a complete hack. Hardly solving a deficiency, while creating one in the ruck. Longer has a long way to go to catch McEvoy, maybe he will but just as likely he won't. Savage is decent, but nothing to build a team around, he would be in at the bottom end of the best 22 in most decent teams. You really need some luck and to make very good choices in this draft or this trade period will be an unmitigated disaster. With regard to NDS, you may need to give time to some young players, but they also need experienced players to learn from and it doesn't help their development to get thrashed every week.

 

[Adam H]

You recruited a kid who may become a decent KPD and a complete hack. Hardly solving a deficiency, while creating one in the ruck. Longer has a long way to go to catch McEvoy, maybe he will but just as likely he won't. Savage is decent, but nothing to build a team around, he would be in at the bottom end of the best 22 in most decent teams. You really need some luck and to make very good choices in this draft or this trade period will be an unmitigated disaster. With regard to NDS, you may need to give time to some young players, but they also need experienced players to learn from and it doesn't help their development to get thrashed every week.

You really have no idea about who is on our list at all. Ww have plenty of experiance on every line all of them having played in multiple final series. Dont know which one you consider a hack as one is a more than servicable big bodied full back and the other is a 197 95 kg promising CHB. Given we have some quality defenders already albeit a bit undersized this will form a quality back 6 moving forward. Fisher,Gilbert, Roberton,Gwilt,Sipmkin,Dempster are all quality defenders. Savage well of course you dont build a side him but you dont build sides around Melksham Colyer Zaharakis either. As for the rucks Im not sure any club would be unhappy with Longer Hickey Stanley Pierce in the stable.

 

[dean33]

Adelaide - Moving on Vince for a desperately needed second rounder and getting Betts for free were both good bits of business. Podsiadly is decent insurance, but I'm surprised he got a 2 year contract. Missed out on Polec and Edwards. They've done well in the short term, but I wonder about the long term cultural implications of shopping around so many contracted players. Brisbane did that when they traded for Fev and they haven't been the same since. B

Brisbane - Managed good deals for Polec, Yeo and Karnezis in the circumstances, but got bent over for Longer and Docherty. I would've sent Docherty to the PSD rather than accepting #33 for him personally. They were dealt a s**t sandwich, and that's pretty much what they ended up with. D

Carlton - Big winners IMO. Betts out and Thomas in is a massive upgrade. They effectively traded out Hampson for Docherty, which is ridiculously lucky, and then they got Andrejs Everitt for next to nothing. They were relatively minor trades, but Carlton came out on the winning side of all of them IMO. A

Collingwood - Losing Thomas and Shaw will hurt, but getting two picks in the top 10 and some quality young talent like Adams and Karnezis is a big win, plus Jesse White is an upgrade on Lynch. I think this trade/FA period will bring Collingwood short term pain but long term gain. A-

Essendon - Crameri and Gumbleton are worth a hell of a lot more than picks 26 and 55, and those trades have put a massive hole in Essendon's KPF depth. Shaun Edwards is a handy pick-up and Chapman still has a year or two of good football left, but they don't erase the losses that Essendon made on those two deals. C-

Fremantle - Probably the best performers for mine. Added two highly talented mid-20's players, one of whom fills a massive need, for nothing more than pick 55. Viv Michie is a decent prospect but he probably wouldn't have gotten much gametime in the Dockers midfield, so not much of a loss for them. A+

Geelong - Josh Hunt is no loss, but they've lost a big game player who was still playing good footy (without Paul Chapman they would've been lucky to get past us in the semi finals), the second best key forward on their list and a premiership ruckman, and they got next to nothing in return. They get a lower grade than Brisbane and Hawthorn, because Brisbane were forced into their shitty moves whereas Geelong made their shitty trades by choice. F

Gold Coast - Yawn. N/A

GWS - Expansion teams aren't going to be able to keep all of their youngsters together and GWS lost a few this year, but they gained two high quality senior players which is probably more of a need for them. They have enough young talent stockpiled that they can afford to lose a couple, and they filled needs with Mumford and Shaw. I think they lost out on the Dom Tyson and pick 9 for pick 2 trade (if it was for pick 1 and Tom Boyd then sure, but the difference between picks 2 and 9 this year probably isn't worth losing Dom Tyson for), but they did well in the rest of their moves. Jed Lamb still to come as a freebie in the PSD. B

Hawthorn - The AFL dealt them a s**t sandwich with their compo pick, but the cold hard facts are that they effectively traded Buddy Franklin, Shane Savage and a pick downgrade for Ben McEvoy. looool. D

Melbourne - Sylvia for Vince, meh. Dom Tyson for pick 20 and a first round downgrade, good deal. I really rate Dom Tyson, and Melbourne are in a position where they'd rather have someone with a couple of years development already under his belt. Viv Michie and Daniel Cross will provide good depth for a club that sorely needs it. B+

North Melbourne - They weren't overly active, but if your trade period nets you Nick Dal Santo for free, you can't complain about that. A

Port Adelaide - Matt White and Jared Polec add some much needed speed and skill to a midfield that was super fit and hard-working in 2013 but sometimes lacked a bit of pace and polish on the outside. Disappointing that the club's publicly stated goal to find another key forward option wasn't achieved. B

Richmond - Lol Hampson. C

St Kilda - Their best 22 right now looks a hell of a lot worse than it did at the start of the trade period in the short term, but they've set themselves up very nicely for the long term. Good on them for finally having the balls to go about the proper rebuild that they desperately need. Absolutely bent Brisbane over in the Longer trade. B+

Sydney - They got Buddy, but they sacrificed a hell of a lot of depth to get him. Buddy is good enough that losing Mumford and a few depth players is probably worth it, but they bloody well better hope he doesn't get injured. B

West Coast - The 6 for 11 for 31 trade was a strange one, but if the Eagles believe that the guy they want at 6 will still be available at 11 then they've essentially just gotten themselves a free second rounder. Yeo and Ellis are handy acquisitions. B+

Western Bulldogs - Crameri's not quite the traditional key forward that they've needed for so long, but he's big and strong enough to help out their forward structure. They didn't lose anybody, and they got Crameri and Darley for a bargain. A

C for the tigers? Lost a couple of fringe players, signed conca and Martin who are better signings than anyone traded bar buddy for what we wanted to pay them. Than went out and addressed one deficiency being the ruck for pick 32 in a shallow draft. I love how as long as clubs are making trades they are seen to be "improving" their list.

I seem to remember the cats not really being involved in the trade period at all on their way to 3 flags...


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[Tbone McGraw]

You really have no idea about who is on our list at all. Ww have plenty of experiance on every line all of them having played in multiple final series. Dont know which one you consider a hack as one is a more than servicable big bodied full back and the other is a 197 95 kg promising CHB. Given we have some quality defenders already albeit a bit undersized this will form a quality back 6 moving forward. Fisher,Gilbert, Roberton,Gwilt,Sipmkin,Dempster are all quality defenders. Savage well of course you dont build a side him but you dont build sides around Melksham Colyer Zaharakis either. As for the rucks Im not sure any club would be unhappy with Longer Hickey Stanley Pierce in the stable.

So with all your optimism, how will saints do this year?

Anything better than bottom 3 will be a bonus and its only going to get worse with Hayes and Reiwoldt getting on.

 

[goodie23]

So with all your optimism, how will saints do this year?

Anything better than bottom 3 will be a bonus and its only going to get worse with Hayes and Reiwoldt getting on.

We're in for some pain next year, maybe, just maybe some minor improvement. But if we kept our list the same, we'd be in the same situation.

Long-term these are good moves. Short-term they kind of work. Hickey gained on McEvoy this year and hopefully will be able to do okay next year with the help of Stanley, Longer and Jolly. Dal's a blow but given he played the latter part of the year on the half back flank that gives us a chance to get more games into youngsters for that role, most likely Wright and Webster.

Most important thing is we picked up key defenders which were our major weakness this year. Finally having some bigger bodies means we can have proper contests in the backline. Zac Dawson and the hole left by his absence proved it's about having someone back there, they don't have to be great.

The club had to make some radical moves, otherwise our aging list would crumble and we'd be left with leaderless kids.

 

[Adam H]

So with all your optimism, how will saints do this year?

Anything better than bottom 3 will be a bonus and its only going to get worse with Hayes and Reiwoldt getting on.

Its not about next season its about building a list that can compete in finals in a couple of years. As for thd departures of Roi and Hayes no one can replace Roo as he is one of the best of all time but the recruitment of Lee White and improvement from Stanly provide us with tall options going forward.

 

[Alfonz]

C for the tigers? Lost a couple of fringe players, signed conca and Martin who are better signings than anyone traded bar buddy for what we wanted to pay them. Than went out and addressed one deficiency being the ruck for pick 32 in a shallow draft. I love how as long as clubs are making trades they are seen to be "improving" their list.

I seem to remember the cats not really being involved in the trade period at all on their way to 3 flags...

C grade is fair enough. Richmond didn't really do anything. Was neither great nor terrible, hence a middle of the road C grade. Richmond ended up with an extremely average ruck in Hampson, and overpaid for him. Keeping Conca and Martin doesn't really count too much, you can't get more than a C/pass mark for keeping players that you should be able to keep.

As an aside, there was one big trade for Ottens which really helped Geelong down the track. But they probably got a lot of C grades as well along the way. Not a bad thing if the improvement/ability can come from within.

Not sure why you sound like Richmond should get an A or B for basically doing nothing.

 

[Scodog10]

For mine the three clear winners were North Melbourne, Fremantle and St Kilda. They gained exactly what they needed IMO.

Special mention to GC they are perfectly positioned with their list and had no need whatsoever to trade and achieved that. IMO the industry puts to great an emphasis on trading which may seem contradictory to later parts of my post.

Collingwood seems to be a hot topic of conversation throughout the thread so I thought I'd add my two cents. I think we went ok and if I had to provide a grade it would be a B. We lost quality in exchange for the shot at quality. In the hands of many other recruitment and development systems I'd deem that a loss, but Collingwood IMO haven't wasted a top pick since 04 so make of that what you will.

Where I feel Collingwood can ultimately feel vindicated with their list management is if they are major players next year and for instance bring in a Hurn via FA and then trade our first rounder for another established talent, maybe Luke Bruest (throwing him out there because of how underrated he is IMO). It leaves us with Grundy, Broomhead, Kennedy, Adams, Breust, Hurn and picks 6 + 10 in 2013 (I'll say Acres and McCarthy) for the loss of Shaw, Thomas, Dawes, Wellingham and 2014 first rounder.

Based on that over a 3 year period even if White, Karnezis and Young are all busts (I'm of the opinion that Karnezis and White likely will be and I certainly wouldn't have traded for them) I'd still have us in a very healthy position over that period.

Despite Mr. Wallets protestations Collingwood have the cap room to be significant FA/ trade players next year along with Hawthorn.

 

[TedDougChris]

the point is that they lost 2 ver good senior players to get those first round picks and Adams. So while they have done well, they havent necessarily got massive 'overs' or any killer deals in terms of value.

The alternate view is that they ended up with Adams for Shaw, which is long term planning (even though in different positions) and got Pick 6 for Daisy, compared with Hawthorn who got McEvoy for Franklin (plus players and extra picks in the bargin). If you have to lose a player, and most people predicted that Thomas was going months in advance, to end up with Pick 6 is pretty good for a guy who basically didn't play last year.

 

[Deefolt]

How could Saints be Losers?

They got 2 very good young Players in with Longer and Bruce. Savage has Upside and Luke Delaney is a wait and See.

I think they did a very good job

its clubs he hates, hes like a dog with a bone

 

[dean33]

C grade is fair enough. Richmond didn't really do anything. Was neither great nor terrible, hence a middle of the road C grade. Richmond ended up with an extremely average ruck in Hampson, and overpaid for him. Keeping Conca and Martin doesn't really count too much, you can't get more than a C/pass mark for keeping players that you should be able to keep.

As an aside, there was one big trade for Ottens which really helped Geelong down the track. But they probably got a lot of C grades as well along the way. Not a bad thing if the improvement/ability can come from within.

Not sure why you sound like Richmond should get an A or B for basically doing nothing.

C with a "lol hampson" next to it indicates we did terribly.
I seem to remember the same negativity when we got an " average 2nd string ruckman" from Adelaide in maric, an "average" footballer with poor disposal in Chaplin as well.

Just remember richmonds trading since Blair Hartley came on board has been as good as any club around. I'll back hartleys keen eye and the tigers terrific ability of late to improve players who come to the club over posters who haven't got much idea.


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[The Royal Sampler]

My $0.02 on Collingwood's trade/FA period:

First of all, you have to realise that while Dale Thomas left the club, it was something that we were resigned to. We didn't see it as being financially responsible to offer that sort of money to a player who had been limited to 5 games in 2013 due to injury, and realistically had no real reason for optimism after two failed surgeries in one year. So we got pick #11 which is an acceptable return. Certainly not a disaster and we had no real alternative.

Second of all, our recruiters do not rate the depth of this draft. So we were prepared to give up our second round pick, and managed to upgrade the aforementioned pick #11 by five spots AND grab a player (White) we felt we needed. That's a very solid return for a pick we may not have used, or certainly were prepared to do without. Akin to picking him up as a FA really, except it doesn't affect our Thomas compo.

Third of all, we needed a more mobile key forward, as Lynch offers nothing once the ball hits the ground and for a good part of the season, couldn't kick over a jam tin. Jesse White is no world beater, but has the age/size/mobility combo we require, and is coming off the best season of his career. This is not some draftee who was taken early but then hasn't shown anything hence everyone on BigFooty thinks he's a "steal" or "unders". White has some form and can play at the required level.

Shaw is a loss, no doubt about it. However we were able to make the most of a bad situation, picking up a talented young midfielder in an area of need. Whereas Shaw may only have a few quality seasons left, Adams should be around for a long time. Again, Adams was performing very well at GWS, he wasn't a draft bust who could be snapped up cheaply in the hope of turning him around. Many suggested that Collingwood would have to sweeten the deal to get Adams across, but in the end we got a fair result.

Karnezis is a handy project picked up for the loss of a guy who is, to my eye, an honest battler. Could go either way, but while Karnezis may turn into something, it's fair to say that Paine wasn't going to make it with us. His standout attribute is his marking, but our forward line is already immobile enough and lacks enough finishing ability for us to be able to include Paine. I hope both players kick on at their new clubs.

So all in all, while we lost some talent in Thomas and Shaw, signing Thomas would have been a bigger mistake and we were reasonably compensated. His 2013 output was virtually nil (and he played injured for much of 2012), so we shouldn't suffer a huge drop-off as a team due to his departure. We did well to pick up Adams and get Shaw to a non-contending club. We got excellent value for our 2nd rounder, upgrading our second 1st rounder and picking up Jesse White in the process. We also got Karnezis as a talented project for the loss of a player who Buckley didn't rate.

I think we've done well not to fall into the trap of overvaluing a much-loved but injury prone player, we've addressed a couple of needs, we've made our assessment of the draft cohort and set our draft position accordingly, and we've gotten full value for what we've traded away.

 

[Hipster Doofus]

No one said they were champion defenders and they don't need to be outstanding, just need to make sure we aren't destroyed by KPFs.

Best of luck with those two, they'll try hard and you'll love them for it; but it reeks of the dreaded Mcgaune-Thursfield-Moore backline which Richmond ran for a few years before they realised they were being outclassed every single week.

 

[goodie23]

Best of luck with those two, they'll try hard and you'll love them for it; but it reeks of the dreaded Mcgaune-Thursfield-Moore backline which Richmond ran for a few years before they realised they were being outclassed every single week.

At least Bruce and Delaney have the size to make a better contest of it than any of our backmen for the last two years, plus their presence allows Roberton, Fisher or Gwilt to be third man up which is what they do best.

 

[Hipster Doofus]

At least Bruce and Delaney have the size to make a better contest of it than any of our backmen for the last two years, plus their presence allows Roberton, Fisher or Gwilt to be third man up which is what they do best.

Not arguing their value mate, I'm sure they'll bash and crash like you need them too

 

[Vass]

Typical Collingwood supporter.

Amid all the jerking off over Adams and picks 6 and 10, most of them completely disregard the fact they lost Shaw and Thomas and still expect to rise up the ladder and challenge next year.

give me a break.

Thomas did not play for most of the year and Shaw had one of his worst years. In the mean time we will have Ball and Beams ready to play a full year. Toovey will also be back and another year of development to Keefe, Williams, Sinclair, Seedsman and Elliott. I think that with the additions of Adems and pick 6 and 10 will make up for the loss of Shaw. It is easy to see scope for improvement for the Collingwood side next year. They only players who are aging are Maxwell (gave us nothing this year) Swan (I reckon will still be elite next year) and Ball.

 

[F_therest]

C for the tigers? Lost a couple of fringe players, signed conca and Martin who are better signings than anyone traded bar buddy for what we wanted to pay them. Than went out and addressed one deficiency being the ruck for pick 32 in a shallow draft. I love how as long as clubs are making trades they are seen to be "improving" their list.

I seem to remember the cats not really being involved in the trade period at all on their way to 3 flags...


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You do realise this thread is about the TRADE period right?? Not who re-signed their own players...and maybe Richmond doing nothing but getting Hampson is the right thing for their list right now but thats not what we're discussing here.

 

[Pat_Footy]

West Coast absolutely spanked Brisbane in this trade period. Yeo for a second round pick? Lols...
He was the best player Brisbane traded out. West Coast didn't mind trading the highest second round pick in their possession as they were picking up a star in the making. Awful, awful trading by Brisbane. Should have been demanding the first round pick from the start.

 

[Kenno27]

Beware of the cashed-up Hawks
Not so much this year, but come the end of 2014 the Hawks will have a gaping hole in their salary cap and should be in a position to make some key acquisitions through free agency and the draft. The $1.1 million set aside for the departed Lance Franklin in 2014 will be used in the short term to frontload existing contracts

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2013-10-26/what-we-learned-from-the-trade-period

By freeing up significant salary cap space, the club has positioned itself as a major free agency player in 2014, meaning the full benefit of this Trade Period may not be felt for 12 months

The smart clubs like Hawthorn not only focus on the present, but have a bigger eye on the future.

 

[TheLastEmperor]

To best determine the winners an understanding of where the list is at is most important and the starting position for your assessment. For this reason I have the Pies, Saints and Freo as the winners from trade period.

The Pies identified a need for an injection of youth, whether by trading for a talented mid (Adams) or bettering their draft position (pick #6). Trading out Thomas and Shaw given where their list is at makes sense because they are clearly making another premiership run in a few years and not the immediate. The acquisitions of White and Karnesus whilst not spectacular came cheap and have merit. 8/10

The Saints similar to the Pies identified the need for young talent and acquired two young talented players (Longer and Bruce) and bettered their draft position (pick #18 and #19) whilst losing a 30 year old (Dal Santo) who will not be around when they challenge again and a ruck (McEvoy) who has been underwhelming since having a very good season in 2011. Picking up Savage and Delaney equates to the Pies picking White and Karnesus. 8/10

Fremantle I have as the winners of trade period. Having played in a grand final and come so close they were looking for that little bit extra in the forward half (their weakness) picking two talented forward options (Sylvia and Gumbleton) on the cheap (via FA and a late pick). Losing a player outside their best 22 (Mitchie) no great loss. 9/10

Other teams I felt did quite well were the Blues, GWS, Eagles and the Dogs. Teams I felt under performed in the trade period were Essendon (losing two forwards), Sydney (Buddy deal far too great and will have a negative lasting effect on the list) and of course Brisbane (loss of talented kids), although they salvaged what they could given the circumstances.

 

[Deefolt]

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2013-10-26/what-we-learned-from-the-trade-period



The smart clubs like Hawthorn not only focus on the present, but have a bigger eye on the future.

97% of clubs do that

 

[Deefolt]

West Coast absolutely spanked Brisbane in this trade period. Yeo for a second round pick? Lols...
He was the best player Brisbane traded out. West Coast didn't mind trading the highest second round pick in their possession as they were picking up a star in the making. Awful, awful trading by Brisbane. Should have been demanding the first round pick from the start.

never heard of him till trade period tbh

 

[KrakFiend]

never heard of him till trade period tbh

That should send shudders down the spine of any WCE supporter given the extent of your football knowledge...

 

[Ian Dunross]

Not sure St. Kilda didn't lose anything.

Dal Santo was close to, if not their best midfielder and a respected club leader.

McEvoy had a poor year but he was another club leader and was a quality player in the mid 20's range that they lack.

The trouble with St. Kilda is their list isn't well balanced. They also have very poor player development programs.

I'm not sure adding youth with hardly any experienced or established players is prudent recruiting.

I think Dal still has a good 3 years of top line football left, IMO that football will predominantly be played across the half back line, which is still an important role, we do have some young quality across the half back line in Roberton and Newnes and the young Wright and Webster.

His quality will be missed for at least the next season, but in effect the Saints got Billy Longer for him (the pick 25 compo pick), so I would class that as a win for the Saints.

McEvoy has been much spoken about on the Saints forum and there has been a general consensus that he was never going to have the leap, height or athleticism to be a top (or even good) tap ruckman. He has strengths being endurance and a good mark and as many have spoken about, a sound head and strong leadership qualities. But then, young Longer and Hickey are both recognised as being good lads who put their body on the line and set good examples for others. Newnes and Geary too are recognised as young leaders in the making.

I think the development issues you speak about have more or less been rectified following the departure of Lyon. Whether that is because of the departure of Lyon or the re-structure just happened at this time I defer to others on this subject, but the Saints have an "academy" now that does what I don't know but seems to be having an affect. Watching the youngsters last season, it would be hard to say they didn't look well coached and well-developed and managed.

Time will tell on that front but I think the Saints have learnt from the mistakes of the Lyon years and seem to be following examples set by Geelong and Hawthorn.

 

[Ian Dunross]

You recruited a kid who may become a decent KPD and a complete hack. Hardly solving a deficiency, while creating one in the ruck. Longer has a long way to go to catch McEvoy, maybe he will but just as likely he won't. Savage is decent, but nothing to build a team around, he would be in at the bottom end of the best 22 in most decent teams. You really need some luck and to make very good choices in this draft or this trade period will be an unmitigated disaster. With regard to NDS, you may need to give time to some young players, but they also need experienced players to learn from and it doesn't help their development to get thrashed every week.

"unmitigated disaster" shows how little insight you have into trading/drafting/list building.

Longer has a short way to go to catch up to McEvoy the ruckman. There is very good probability that he will surpass McEvoy as a ruckman within 2 seasons, but don't listen to me, listen to those people who know who rate Longer as one of the best young ruckman in the comp.

Two first round draft picks and a handy half forward flanker who will likely play 150+ games for you for a ruckman who will never become elite is a doozy. It is a win to the Saints by so far that daylight is second. Anyone's who's followed McEvoy over the last two years will recite his shortcomings. When the Saints next finish top 4 he will be 29 going on 30. Dal Santo by that time will be 3 years into his retirement.

No one is suggesting a team be built around Savage, but most would recognise that the 23rd best player from the Premiership team with room for improvement and 10 years ahead of him is a good get. Not to mention picks 18 and 19. Anyone suggesting that they could build a team around McEvoy on the other hand, has not watched McEvoy for more than a handful of games.