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Ablett wasn't a number one draft pick
Who is the No. 1 number one?
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I think he was adequate in 2009, but the mail was that he did a quad or something a couple of days before the game and then of course it was a slippery/greasy day, which made it all the more difficult for anyone to get much done overhead, for either team. No-one took more than 5 marks that day (which is how many he took, to go with 13 possies and a goal).
Was poor in the 2 GF's v Collingwood though, albeit that was the year he ripped his hammy off the bone and missed a few months of footy.
One thing I noticed... Jaeger O'Meara was not a number 1 draft pick - he may very well have gone first but he didn't.
There is also no way on God's green earth that Jeremy Cameron would have gone number 1. We all know how good he is now but look at his pedigree when he would have been drafted. Didn't touch a football until he was 15. Before that he was a junior golfer. Played half a season in the Dartmore reserves and half a year of TAC where he played mostly across half back.
Stand back and take the name and the hindsight out of it and ask yourself, would your club spend its first pick (let alone the first pick overall) on a possible defender with a golfing background who only picked up a footy two and a half years earlier?
You look at a kid like that and think 'project player' not first rounder let alone first pick.
There is also no way on God's green earth that Jeremy Cameron would have gone number 1. We all know how good he is now but look at his pedigree when he would have been drafted. Didn't touch a football until he was 15. Before that he was a junior golfer. Played half a season in the Dartmore reserves and half a year of TAC where he played mostly across half back.
Stand back and take the name and the hindsight out of it and ask yourself, would your club spend its first pick (let alone the first pick overall) on a possible defender with a golfing background who only picked up a footy two and a half years earlier?
You look at a kid like that and think 'project player' not first rounder let alone first pick.
Premierships shouldn't be a factor. Clay Sampson and Steven Armstrong played in premierships among countess other ordinary players.
Bobby Skilton won 9 B&Fs, 3 Brownlows and played in one final. One of the greatest players of all time.
If one can't evaluate players on the entirety of their careers there's something wrong. I agree that playing well in finals adds weight to a players career, but it can't be the determining factor.
In any case, Riewoldt has played on the biggest stage a number of times.
Yeah, I mean would it have really made all that much difference if Lenny Hayes's kick had bounced into Milne's lap and he kicked the goal that won us the 2010 flag, or if Tom Hawkins poster had been called a point instead of a goal, which they then followed up with another within a minute (in a very close and low scoring game) and we had won in 2009 as well? If we had had just a couple of bits of luck and won those two flags would that really make Nick Riewoldt better than he is now, with no flags?
As for Cameron, GWS had obviously seen enough in Cameron to spend one of their precious preselections on him and when you consider how good he was in his first season in the AFL, can you imagine how well he would have gone the year before, if he had been playing TAC Cup footy, which he would have been had he not been one of those preselections?
As for Cameron, GWS had obviously seen enough in Cameron to spend one of their precious preselections on him and when you consider how good he was in his first season in the AFL, can you imagine how well he would have gone the year before, if he had been playing TAC Cup footy, which he would have been had he not been one of those preselections?
Asgardian
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You've contradicted yourself.
Of course premierships are part of what we consider when discussing the best of the best ... of course premierships are not the determinant of a players career ... but nowhere can you find I said they were.
What I did say was that "premierships are compelling aspects in favour" of a player ... THAT does not mean you ignore all other aspects
No, I haven't. It's not a determining factor in who has been the best pick 1.
But yes, players careers are to some degree measured by their personal performance in finals or in the old days state games. I'd argue however that having no premiership next to your name means little if you've performed well in finals. If you've constantly spudded it up in finals it will most certainly go against you.
Btw, the comments in bold were far more compelling. You know, because they were in bold.
dlanod
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I'll state up front that I love Cameron, but the preselections really were hit and miss and hardly "precious". The GC used one of their's on a guy that didn't even commit to AFL. GWS used one of their's on a guy who went home before the Giants had even played an AFL game. I don't have the figures in front of me, but at least a third of each team's preselections are no longer with that team and it wouldn't surprise me if it's up at 50%. There was absolutely some gold but there were a lot of misses as well, as you'd expect for picking players a year out.
Asgardian
Bigfooty Jedi
No, I haven't. ...
WTF?????????
Are you a closet crows supporter?
I probably didn't express myself as well as I should have. Playing in premierships definitely impacts a players legacy and their standing in footy, but it wouldn't be an overriding factor for me in measuring a total career and shouldn't overly influence decisions made on who was the best number 1.
Robbie Flower is the greatest wingman I've seen and he played in 3 finals and no grand finals.
Was it just me or a couple of years ago people we're claiming murphy as a the form player of the competition? I really enjoy watching him in full flight, very classy player. Is it just injuries that haven't seen him able to maintain that level or other factors at play that people could shed some light on? Obviously he's not at the hodge/ riewoldt level though.
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If you think he could have been better than Carey, Matthews and Ablett Snr & Jnr then you are clearly biased and confused - which is a bad mix.
You clearly have no idea what I'm saying bud.
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Ridiculous comment.
He could reach his potential and still fall well short of those I named. Lucky this is not a thread about the number 2 draft picks. If you rate Deledio this highly I worry to think of how you rate Cotchin.
Oh piss off. Remind me to never make a remotely positive comment about any Richmond player again.
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The gap between Riewoldt and Hodge as a player is big enough for premierships not to come into the equation. If you were debating Hodge and Goddard, then you can defer to premierships to pick Hodge.
So many "utilities" as #1. The safe bet to get an above average player, not many become superstars however.
You're kidding right?
Goddard is no where near the same class as Roo hodgey. He is a whining sook and shreds his team mates to pieces on the field. He has never been a real A grade footballer. I'd put Goddard in the next bracket of players and I'd say 95% of the footy public would also.
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I laughed so hard at Goddard "never being an A grade footballer". Absolute LOL. And no, he isn't on the same level as Roo and Hodge, that's why he's behind them both. He is way ahead of Deledio, Murphy and Gibbs. Cooney too, although that might have been different if Cooney got over his injuries, has never been the same since his Brownlow year sadly.
You could push the second tier down to third and put Goddard in the new 2nd tier, definitely behind Roo and Hodge but he was and is a very very good footballer. Deledio and the others are not close to him.
+1. BJ became elite in 09-10 imo.
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When you look at elite players, it's always good to see how they win games with their own force of will, pushing their teams over the line.
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Riewoldt's the clear best out of his draft year. Hodge has Judd and Bartel to contend with and that's without counting Ablett.
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