Roast Irritating things.

[captain blood 17]

I'm well mate all things considered ... hows tricks with you ?

... i'm under no illusions that it would be pretty miraculous to make it to the second week of the finals . Dont think anyone on here at all would think we are a shot at the title just yet .

Part of the learning curve is learning to win ... often ... and seeing first hand whats needed to win in a final where its played on a different level would only fast-track us IMHO .

... and i dont believe we got ahead of ourselves in 95 , board-room infighting and some shocking choices are what snuffed that out . poor list management , Walls ... nuff said

Yeah it's disturbing some of the scurilous stories you hear about some of our regular posters in threads!! I have good news for all Tigers though, last Sunday saw a Tigers team have a win in Geelong - we can do it (pulled the boots on for the Gippy Tigers over 35's). 3 and a bit hours to get there, over 5 and a half hours to get home. Boys fairly lit up.
I guess this thread was borne out of frustration (obviously) with the circles and roundabouts we were having with other threads. I really just wanted to stimulate some debate and guage where people think we are at. Dimma's 36 rounds into hopefully a 10 plus year career. No premature finals dissapointment, i want us to be the next Brissy/Cats combo. Really dominate. The best part is, ultimatley, we're all on the same page, it's just how we get there.

 

[captain blood 17]

Where's my love???

[youtube]OzQKECQgjW8[/youtube]

I'll throw some love to ya Brah.

 

[NQTIGER]

Hmm a little bit of interesting reading:



http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/a...es-not-top-eight/story-e6frf9jf-1226079447530

To me it comes across as if we make finals well and good but if not well its not what we're about at this stage.

FFS thats what west coast are saying too, every club says the same thing at this time of the year, they are trying to keep a lid on it..

To say we arent ready is bullshit, if we make it then we are by definition ready, this crap about development first is just that. crap

The team will develop by WINNING.

Did the magpies develop by losing? what about geelong?

The clubs best development is winning...end of story.

 

[NQTIGER]

I agree with all but these points. The first point I would like to point out Andrew Browne's form. Has been pretty good for someone coming straight from the VFL. Also regarding the bringing them in for the sake of bringing them in I don't agree in. Gourdis should have been brought in on the back of 3 BOG's for Coburg after Astbury went down. It would have been bringing him in to address a need, rather than the sake of bringing him in.

The second point I totally disagree with. You would rather us lose a couple of games so we won't be obliterated in a final? Dude, think of the ramifications. If we make finals, then our membership will go up. The fact is, if we can make finals this year, we can sure as hell make them next year. So why not start the 6-8 years of finals appearances as soon as possible? Get them into a pressure atmosphere as soon as possible so they know what it is like. If they experience it this year, then we are all the better for it for next year, or for when we do in fact make finals.

I have encountered this in my own football. Last year I was playing seniors for my local side. We needed to win the last 2 games to make the finals, as the team in 8th had the bye the very last round. Anyway we won our second last match by about 14 goals, and it came down to us V the wooden spooners. Our coach told us that we were physically not ready, nor mentally ready for finals. As such, he told us that we would have to lose the match. Half of the team walked out. We forfeited and our 5 best players walked to a different club.

If we are in a position to make finals such as we are now, we need to take it. If Dimma wants us to lose to protect us and get us ready for next year then some of the players might not like it and request a trade. Highly unlikely but Footy is played to make finals. If we can do so, go for it.

And the third point. The Hislop bashing on this board is outrageous. He may not be the most skilled, or the classiest player, but he does give one hundred percent and his defensive work is fantastic. With Nahas playing more midfield, Hislop is the suitable replacement as a defensive forward pocket/half forward. He has played 2-3 games coming back from a serious injury. Give him a fair go. He was Coburgs best for a month and he needs to get games into him. His disposal has improved dramatically and so has his decision making. To me he seems a little hesitant to push his body, however, once he gets past it, he should come on.

Just my two cents.

Then we would all be bleating why does lids, cotch martin etc etc want to leave this great club........, you cant have it both ways

 

[Grockadoc]

Im just saying that if we choose not make finals in a team that is capable of doing so, it could result in less loyalty to the club. I wasn't inferring it would happen, just it could happen.

 

[NQTIGER]

Im just saying that if we choose not make finals in a team that is capable of doing so, it could result in less loyalty to the club. I wasn't inferring it would happen, just it could happen.

Im with you on this

 

[_RT_]

FFS thats what west coast are saying too, every club says the same thing at this time of the year, they are trying to keep a lid on it..

To say we arent ready is bullshit, if we make it then we are by definition ready, this crap about development first is just that. crap

The team will develop by WINNING.

Did the magpies develop by losing? what about geelong?

The clubs best development is winning...end of story.

So if we make it with a 10-1-11 record and are 2 games behind 7th and 2-3 games behind 5th is not being ready, its simply being lucky.

As for development being crap, gee Dimma would be pissed to realise that he has wasted the past 15 months putting all the time and effort into developing a gameplan, developing players in positions and trying to turn us from a bottom 2 club to a finals club.

Just on the Pies they won a spoon in 99, finished 15th in 2000, 9th in 2001, played 2 straight GF then went back down to finish 13th & 15th in 2004 & 2005 before finally starting to play finals regularly from 2006. With Geelong from 1999 to 2003 they played finals once in 2000 finished 12th three times, 9th & 11th, played finals in 04 & 05 before dropping down to 10th in 06 before they went on their current streak.

Looks to me like both teams did their fair share of losing before finally getting their current success.

 

[_RT_]

Im just saying that if we choose not make finals in a team that is capable of doing so, it could result in less loyalty to the club. I wasn't inferring it would happen, just it could happen.

I don't think that we'll choose whether we make it or not and I think that is what a lot of people are overlooking. Right now we're in the mix and if the chance arises to make the finals then I reckon we'll happily take it. However if we don't make it I don't think it will see players wanting out, the playing group seems sold on what Dimma is telling them and our current improvement would be reinforcing that to them.

 

[NQTIGER]

So if we make it with a 10-1-11 record and are 2 games behind 7th and 2-3 games behind 5th is not being ready, its simply being lucky.

As for development being crap, gee Dimma would be pissed to realise that he has wasted the past 15 months putting all the time and effort into developing a gameplan, developing players in positions and trying to turn us from a bottom 2 club to a finals club.

Just on the Pies they won a spoon in 99, finished 15th in 2000, 9th in 2001, played 2 straight GF then went back down to finish 13th & 15th in 2004 & 2005 before finally starting to play finals regularly from 2006. With Geelong from 1999 to 2003 they played finals once in 2000 finished 12th three times, 9th & 11th, played finals in 04 & 05 before dropping down to 10th in 06 before they went on their current streak.

Looks to me like both teams did their fair share of losing before finally getting their current success.

And we havent had our fair share of losing?

So if we play finals and then drop down a year and begin our streak would that not be in line with those two clubs?

They developed a winning culture.....

 

[_RT_]

And we havent had our fair share of losing?

So if we play finals and then drop down a year and begin our streak would that not be in line with those two clubs?

They developed a winning culture.....

Yes we have had our share of losing and we are currently in the middle stages of development which will hopefully in turn become a winning culture, much the same that those 2 sides did. Not saying we have to make finals now fall back and then climb again, just I'd rather make it like Carlton did last 2 years, where despite losing they were able to compete against their opponents. Surely you would prefer that to us playing a final getting smacked by 10-15 goals and being made to look totally second rate?

 

[Mr Magic]

Yes we have had our share of losing and we are currently in the middle stages of development which will hopefully in turn become a winning culture, much the same that those 2 sides did. Not saying we have to make finals now fall back and then climb again, just I'd rather make it like Carlton did last 2 years, where despite losing they were able to compete against their opponents. Surely you would prefer that to us playing a final getting smacked by 10-15 goals and being made to look totally second rate?

That is a sin bin offense!!

We are trying to build a winning culture. No references to Carlton please!!!

 

[TigerBlood87]

My understanding is that some of you want 'development' over 'winning' is that right? Playing in a final, win or loss will develop our players much faster than winning a thousand minor premiership games would. Just being there gives players a belief that they are good enough to hang with the best and if we go out in straight sets then so be it, see you next year. Missing out on finals for the sake of developing kids in the latter part of the year will set you back a year in my opinion, because it simply means that they have to wait another year before they get a chance to play finals football and as a result miss out on a precious and character building experience.

 

[Mr Magic]

My understanding is that some of you want 'development' over 'winning' is that right? Playing in a final, win or loss will develop our players much faster than winning a thousand minor premiership games would. Just being there gives players a belief that they are good enough to hang with the best and if we go out in straight sets then so be it, see you next year. Missing out on finals for the sake of developing kids in the latter part of the year will set you back a year in my opinion, because it simply means that they have to wait another year before they get a chance to play finals football and as a result miss out on a precious and character building experience.

Disagree, Carlton have proved with a Carltank culture you can still be top 3 with Colliewobbles and Geeeelong looking over their shoulders!!

 

[Bazzar]

Hmm a little bit of interesting reading:

RICHMOND has waited three years to be this close to the top eight so deep into the AFL season.
But for Alex Rance and his Tigers teammates, it's still far too early to dare to dream.

Richmond and Melbourne clash on Saturday at the MCG and the winner will go into the eight if Hawthorn beat Essendon on Friday night.

Rance said regardless of their position on the ladder, Richmond for now were concentrating on improving their game.

"Dimma (coach Damien Hardwick) has been pretty good with us at making sure that it is mainly just focussed on us and getting our stuff right, developing it that way, instead of looking at the larger picture," Rance said.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/a...es-not-top-eight/story-e6frf9jf-1226079447530

To me it comes across as if we make finals well and good but if not well its not what we're about at this stage.

Then Dimma said this

Richmond coach Damien Hardwick said the win put the Tigers in the mix for the top eight...

"It puts us back in the hunt. We are in a pack of seven or eight sides ... we'll see how we go," he said.

No doubt what so ever if we win 2 of the next 3 with GC the 4th and winnable we will have a red hot crack.

http://www.couriermail.com.au/sport...ck-lead-at-gabba/story-e6frepf6-1226077697767

 

[Livonski]

Play for now, play to win...every time. If that gets us in, great. Do you really think Dimma approaches games thinking we're "just developing today"?

And you know what? At 3qtr time in the elim final I'll be gearing up for an 8 goal onslaught with Dusty hitting the fence from inside the centre square.

Dare to dream you blokes! It's a soft cok approach to talk about development like you're all wise old sages of the AFL. You're reading off the 5 yr plan mantra (Wallet says hi). It's crap.
Remember the Hawks 5 yr plan? Won it in 3. Long term development plans are designed to keep supporters in line. And it's clearly working with some of you.
Who knows what will happen in Sept, side may fall over, play injured, too defensive. Ripe for the young Tiges to run over the top...we're the last qtr specialists.

 

[TOOs_Finest]

Essendon of 1993 and Hawthorn of 2007 are two other interesting cases of teams who made finals with young sides. There are many more, but the point is... I have never heard of a team strategically choosing not to make finals, quite absurd really.

I do understand that the coaching staff and match committee should not waver from their path of developing a game plan and a team capable of sustained success, just because they get a sniff of a chance to make finals. Stay the path, but be damn happy if that path takes us to finals quicker than expected.

 

[_RT_]

Then Dimma said this



No doubt what so ever if we win 2 of the next 3 with GC the 4th and winnable we will have a red hot crack.

http://www.couriermail.com.au/sport...ck-lead-at-gabba/story-e6frepf6-1226077697767

I get the same message from that as I did from what Rance said, yeah its great to be in the mix and if we make it great, but its not what we're about at the moment. To me it looks like making finals would be considered a bonus, kind of like what Dea Day said, we're sticking to the plan but not going to knock back a final if we get to play one.

 

[NQTIGER]

I get the same message from that as I did from what Rance said, yeah its great to be in the mix and if we make it great, but its not what we're about at the moment. To me it looks like making finals would be considered a bonus, kind of like what Dea Day said, we're sticking to the plan but not going to knock back a final if we get to play one.

You really do sit on the fence.............

 

[_RT_]

You really do sit on the fence.............

I'm not sitting on the fence at all, just putting forward how I think the club is looking at things.

 

[Underarm]

If we make finals we will probably be belted. I can live with that. We haven't been finals in 10 years! To even think about tanking for 9th is depressing.

I'd love to shake the 9thmond tag before I die if that's possible.....

 

[Goldust]

From where I sit and in terms of development, I think a few posters here are under the misapprehension that only players aged 18-22 need to be developed. As someone, who in his profession , manages people daily, you need to continually develop ALL your staff, aged 18, 20, 22, 30, 47 or 50 and beyond. I’m sure Hardwick takes the same view. While many think playing Miller is holding back the development of Griffiths and Post in particular, Miller is equally entitled to be continually developed and worked on. Ditto for Tuck. You have to continually develop and reinvent your list and at the moment Miller best fits our structure. Post hasn’t grabbed his chance or put his hand up in emphatic fashion, while Griff is simply not ready and I for one am worried if he’ll ever get the body right!

 

[nut]

It's about sitting on the fence....

Dimma/the club ... I .... are saying that making the 8 this season is not a huge priority. It 's not what this season is about. If we keep improving and manage enough games to make the eight then bonus... yeah I would be has happy as anyone.
Lets take Brian Lake for an example. Last year he limped into the finals and was so shot he needed three operations in the pre-season and this season he hasn't been able to play anywhere near his best.
The Bulldogs would justify there decision last season to tape him together and hopefully snatch a flag.

If Rance cops the same injuries what would you expect our club to do in our position this year??? Would we tape Rance together in the hope we could make the eight??? you answer that question and you'll realise how serious we are this season.
This season is preparation for next season. Just like last season was preparing for this year..
Making the eight would be huge bonus but it's not what this season is about.

 

["The Roar Is Back"]

From where I sit and in terms of development, I think a few posters here are under the misapprehension that only players aged 18-22 need to be developed. As someone, who in his profession , manages people daily, you need to continually develop ALL your staff, aged 18, 20, 22, 30, 47 or 50 and beyond. I’m sure Hardwick takes the same view. While many think playing Miller is holding back the development of Griffiths and Post in particular, Miller is equally entitled to be continually developed and worked on. Ditto for Tuck. You have to continually develop and reinvent your list and at the moment Miller best fits our structure. Post hasn’t grabbed his chance or put his hand up in emphatic fashion, while Griff is simply not ready and I for one am worried if he’ll ever get the body right!

Appreciate the point you are getting at Goldy when comparing the training of employees within general business and football , however the success of a football side is far greater when you have a greater percentage of players below 30 years of age and with more than 100 games of experience . Which is why I suspect that some may have question marks over the worthiness of playing the likes of Miller and Tuck , is playing these older types reducing the amount of players that will reach 50-100 bracket together ?
It is a balancing act which I think Dimma and co have done very well , these two players remain vital parts of our club, until we have enough players showing the dedication and enough fitness to take the mantle .
I think a great indication of this has been the way in which Tuck has been bypassed, as such , due to Hislop's form at Coburg yet Miller has remained in the side , he'll give kids an opportunity if they show a willingness to work .

 

[nut]

Appreciate the point you are getting at Goldy when comparing the training of employees within general business and football , however the success of a football side is far greater when you have a greater percentage of players below 30 years of age and with more than 100 games of experience . Which is why I suspect that some may have question marks over the worthiness of playing the likes of Miller and Tuck , is playing these older types reducing the amount of players that will reach 50-100 bracket together ?
It is a balancing act which I think Dimma and co have done very well , these two players remain vital parts of our club, until we have enough players showing the dedication and enough fitness to take the mantle .
I think a great indication of this has been the way in which Tuck has been bypassed, as such , due to Hislop's form at Coburg yet Miller has remained in the side , he'll give kids an opportunity if they show a willingness to work .

Pods V Hawkins..... Should have Geelong kept waiting for Hawkins to come good???

 

["The Roar Is Back"]

Pods V Hawkins..... Should have Geelong kept waiting for Hawkins to come good???

Pods IMO was a relative short term replacement for Mooney , who had experience albeit at VFL level ,to compliment a Geelong side which already had a quality core group with that 100 games of experience ?