Chris Judd - The Crime and the Punishment - 4 Weeks

[fairdinkum]

I must be one of the few non-Carlton fans who believe it is possible that Judd meant no harm and it was a spur-of-the-moment mistake that looks worse on tv than what Judd had envisioned would result from his grabbing of Leigh's wrist.

However, afaic, he must still be suspended to send a strong signal that there is always a duty of care in these sorts of situations and there will be no tolerance for players who risk serious damage to their opponents when not in the course of normal play (ie regular tackles, marking contests etc).

If it were up to me, I'd probably give him two weeks all other things being equal. The fact that he has prior history of doing dumb things to players on the ground leads me to think four weeks is more appropriate. He ever does anything else like this for the rest of his career and then I'd be in support of really serious penalties (I'm talking months, not weeks).

A lot of the comments in this thread just reek of Judd/Carlton hate imho. If it were J Brown or Lenny Hayes who had done the same thing, this thread wouldn't be 1800 replies big. Like peasants out to watch the guillotines, some of you lot.

Oh, and I seriously used to rate Commetti. I would have forgiven him after that 'brain fade' on Friday night. After reading his article, I'm not sure I can ever take to anything he has to say seriously anymore. What a turkey.

 

[Rod Stroker]

Robbo on 360 reckons he is going to plead GUILTY.

Only option to save whats left of his repuation, but not good for the sentance.

What exactly he pleads guilty to is the key, but if it is to intentionally causing harm to the shoulder, look out.

Correct. The tribunal first need to determine if he is guilty of anything. If they do then you'd think it's weeks.

 

[King Elvis]

Robbo just said he has been advised that Judd will plead guilty tomorrow night.

And they showed the other incidents Judd has been involved in over the past few years; damning stuff, Judd is a sensational player, but he is a filthy, dirty player.

Still can't believe he got away with elbowing Pavlich like that.

 

[TimPowell]

whilst i dont believe he went out of his way to hurt him, should get and deserves 3-5....

 

[jonoman89]

Anyone suggesting he intentionally dislocated or hurt Adams' shoulder is crazy. He was clearly trying to prevent the handball occurring. Problem is that he did it with too much force. Recklessness is more fitting, it was likely that injury could occur....but suggesting Judd's only intent was to hurt Adams is a bit too far. He didn't line him up behind the play...

Anyone who suggests he deserves more than 3 weeks is also crazy considering other incidents (e.g. Hunt) which have got nothing. But then again consistency isn't the AFL's strength.

The media circus and anti-Judd bandwagon is going into over drive. I expect a ridiculous outcome.

Swallow's moral and completely understandable reaction, along with every other North Melbourne teammates that felt for Adams' safety, was the only action that caused him to stop.

Watch the vision again. Swallow pushing Judd at the 20 second mark causes Judd's hold on Adams arm to turn into a pulling motion, violently pulling the arm (which was already in an awkward position) perpendicular from Adams' body.

Your guess is as good as mine but you can't rule out the possibility that Judd's original action did not cause the dislocation in itself and that it was the hold plus the pulling motion caused by the Swallow push which led to it.

Adams wags his legs around before the Swallow push, that indicates he would be in pain. It does not indicate that the shoulder was actually dislocated at that moment. It may have occurred later.

Only thing which could clear that up is the medical report which details the nature of the dislocation. That might pin point which exact part of the incident led to the injury.

Swallow's intentions were obviously to protect Adams, but he may have actually caused him further harm.

 

[Noidenous Take 2]

And they showed the other incidents Judd has been involved in over the past few years; damning stuff, Judd is a sensational player, but he is a filthy, dirty player.

Still can't believe he got away with elbowing Pavlich like that.

Exactly.

That it was shown for all to see, including the AFL watermark/stamp-of-approval suggests they're not going to be slapping him on the wrist saying 'you old devil you'.

On top of that, it was ALLOWED to be mentioned that a current player pulled a shifty and got him off one of those incidents.

 

[DarkPhoenix]

There was an article on AFL site (breakdown of MRP I believe) saying that Judd can't put in an early guilty plea.

Does that just mean they don't have to go through the rigmarole tomorrow of classifying guilt (due to Judd admitting it if he choses to) and go straight to the sentencing with no view for reduction?

Also apparently the North medical report is likely to read: Pre existing injury, action didnt cause additional damage to the joint, but the action did exacerbate the injury requiring close to a quarter hour of treatment in the rooms.

 

[Noidenous Take 2]

There was an article on AFL 360 (breakdown of MRP I believe) saying that Judd can't put in an early guilty plea.

Does that just mean they don't have to go through the rigmarole tomorrow of classifying guilt (due to Judd admitting it if he choses to) and go straight to the sentencing with no view for reduction?

I think by pleading guilty to the tribunal, it stops them looking at all available resources and lessens the likelihood of being further punished for trying to get off.

 

[MaddAdam]

Swallow's intentions were obviously to protect Adams, but he may have actually caused him further harm.

That monster Swallow.

 

[jonbe54]

Anyone suggesting he intentionally dislocated or hurt Adams' shoulder is crazy. He was clearly trying to prevent the handball occurring. Problem is that he did it with too much force. Recklessness is more fitting, it was likely that injury could occur....but suggesting Judd's only intent was to hurt Adams is a bit too far. He didn't line him up behind the play...

Anyone who suggests he deserves more than 3 weeks is also crazy considering other incidents (e.g. Hunt) which have got nothing. But then again consistency isn't the AFL's strength.

The media circus and anti-Judd bandwagon is going into over drive. I expect a ridiculous outcome.



Watch the vision again. Swallow pushing Judd at the 20 second mark causes Judd's hold on Adams arm to turn into a pulling motion, violently pulling the arm (which was already in an awkward position) perpendicular from Adams' body.

Your guess is as good as mine but you can't rule out the possibility that Judd's original action did not cause the dislocation in itself and that it was the hold plus the pulling motion caused by the Swallow push which led to it.

Adams wags his legs around before the Swallow push, that indicates he would be in pain. It does not indicate that the shoulder was actually dislocated at that moment. It may have occurred later.

Only thing which could clear that up is the medical report which details the nature of the dislocation. That might pin point which exact part of the incident led to the injury.

Swallow's intentions were obviously to protect Adams, but he may have actually caused him further harm.

Swallows intention was to put Judd flat on his arse which has been roundly applauded by all fair minded Australians who witnessed it. Luckily for Judd he didn't do it when Laurie Icke was still captain of North, because then saint Judd would have would up gracefully draped over a seat in the 5th row of the grandstand with half his teeth missing.

 

[Smokin]

There was an article on AFL site (breakdown of MRP I believe) saying that Judd can't put in an early guilty plea.

Does that just mean they don't have to go through the rigmarole tomorrow of classifying guilt (due to Judd admitting it if he choses to) and go straight to the sentencing with no view for reduction?

Also apparently the North medical report is likely to read: Pre existing injury, action didnt cause additional damage to the joint, but the action did exacerbate the injury requiring close to a quarter hour of treatment in the rooms.

it all depends on what he in fact pleads guilty to.

he could plead guilty to holding his arm - and really piss off the tribunal.

he could plead guilty to intentionally trying to dislocate the shoulder and bust ligaments, a move John Donehue taught him and thus could be up for 2 months. This wont happen obviously.

 

[Ron The Bear]

Robbo just said he has been advised that Judd will plead guilty tomorrow night.

Flies in the face of Cometti's advice: "As Rumpole said, 'never plead guilty'."

By refraining from futile attempts to mitigate things with some ****-and-bull explanation, he will emerge with the maximum possible integrity.

 

[Hearts to hearts]

Anyone suggesting he intentionally dislocated or hurt Adams' shoulder is crazy. He was clearly trying to prevent the handball occurring. Problem is that he did it with too much force. Recklessness is more fitting, it was likely that injury could occur....but suggesting Judd's only intent was to hurt Adams is a bit too far. He didn't line him up behind the play...

Anyone who suggests he deserves more than 3 weeks is also crazy considering other incidents (e.g. Hunt) which have got nothing. But then again consistency isn't the AFL's strength.

The media circus and anti-Judd bandwagon is going into over drive. I expect a ridiculous outcome.



Watch the vision again. Swallow pushing Judd at the 20 second mark causes Judd's hold on Adams arm to turn into a pulling motion, violently pulling the arm (which was already in an awkward position) perpendicular from Adams' body.

Your guess is as good as mine but you can't rule out the possibility that Judd's original action did not cause the dislocation in itself and that it was the hold plus the pulling motion caused by the Swallow push which led to it.

Adams wags his legs around before the Swallow push, that indicates he would be in pain. It does not indicate that the shoulder was actually dislocated at that moment. It may have occurred later.

Only thing which could clear that up is the medical report which details the nature of the dislocation. That might pin point which exact part of the incident led to the injury.

Swallow's intentions were obviously to protect Adams, but he may have actually caused him further harm.

That's just silly. First, forget the handball defense - the fact the ball was under Adama, with the first Carlton tacker lying on top of him, made the handball impossible, and to stop it being pushed out, all Judd had to do was keep hold of the right arm, not twist and bend it. Second, the North teammates only get involved when the arm is already twisted and Adams is throwing his feet up in pain, so Judd has already initiated the damaging action by himself. Third, the tribunal argument should be less about the dislocation than it is about the complete inappropriateness and risk of what Judd did.

 

[Ancient Tiger]

The guy is frustrated and angry. He did the most stupid thing and will cop his penalty. Just like with the pressure point thing, he shows that he is human and cannot hold his temper.

I think he is lucky his actions didn't totally destroy Leigh Adams' career. Or at least I think they haven't.......

 

[jonoman89]

That monster Swallow.

So if your arm was in an already dangerous position would you also like Judd to pull it away from your body?

Swallow's not a monster, he was doing what any other player would have. His actions however may have caused Adams further harm. If you don't recognise that possibility looking at the vision then you're blind.

 

[Noidenous Take 2]

So if your arm was in an already dangerous position would you also like Judd to pull it away from your body?

Swallow's not a monster, he was doing what any other player would have. His actions however may have caused Adams further harm. If you don't recognise that possibility looking at the vision then you're blind.

Why did Judd continue holding on to Adams' arm knowing he was going to end up on his arse as a result of his previous action?

 

[Ted38]

He's gone for all money and it won't just be the fans of opposing sides that will be pleased.

 

[Ron The Bear]

Anyone suggesting he intentionally dislocated or hurt Adams' shoulder is crazy. He was clearly trying to prevent the handball occurring.

Bullshit. If he was interested in winning the ball, he would've raised one hand in the air and appealed for a free kick for holding the ball. I won't say he intended to do serious damage, but he was in it to punish Adams physically.

 

[jonoman89]

That's just silly. First, forget the handball defense - the fact the ball was under Adama, with the first Carlton tacker lying on top of him, made the handball impossible, and to stop it being pushed out, all Judd had to do was keep hold of the right arm, not twist and bend it. Second, the North teammates only get involved when the arm is already twisted and Adams is throwing his feet up in pain, so Judd has already initiated the damaging action by himself. Third, the tribunal argument should be less about the dislocation than it is about the complete inappropriateness and risk of what Judd did.

1) Before Judd grabbed the arm it was completely free, he was trying to hit it out. It was possible that Adams could have dragged it out if his right arm remained unpinned by Judd. Adams was leaning on his left side, the ball could have been dislodged with his right hand.

2) Agreed.

3) Players grapple and hold each other's arms every week. Not as blatantly as Judd, but to suggest it was "completely inappropriate" is ridiculous...there was a clear advantage to Judd and Carlton in preventing any chance Adams had of getting rid of the ball.

 

[jonoman89]

Bullshit. If he was interested in winning the ball, he would've raised a hand in the air and appealed for a free kick. He was in it to punish Adams physically.

He was holding Adams' arm to prevent Adams from making a genuine attempt at disposing. That would lead to a free kick.

Next.

 

[Noidenous Take 2]

He was holding Adams' arm to prevent Adams from making a genuine attempt at disposing. That would lead to a free kick.

Next.

There was no prior opportunity to award a free kick for.

 

[morgoth]

In an ideal world Judd would have been seriously belted on Friday night, and would be a hunted man for the rest of his career.

Luckily for him he will just get a suspension and a massive dent to his already damaged reputation.

Personally I wish it was the old days were every sides enforcer(s) was given open licence on the prick.

 

[Big_Luch]

And they showed the other incidents Judd has been involved in over the past few years; damning stuff, Judd is a sensational player, but he is a filthy, dirty player.

Still can't believe he got away with elbowing Pavlich like that.

Out of interest how does a handful of incidents determine he is a dirty and filthy player? i mean lets put together a highlight reel of the stuff taggers and opposition players have done to him(and all star players) over the years. Safe to say a few incidents would be the minority in that comparison.

I by no means am saying what he did was ok, i think it was a low act which should be punished. But this hysteria is ridiculous.

 

[Ron The Bear]

He was holding Adams' arm to prevent Adams from making a genuine attempt at disposing. That would lead to a free kick.

Next.

No sale. Sadistic overtones.

 

[jonoman89]

There was no prior opportunity to award a free kick for.

Correct me if i am wrong, but the AFL rules do not require prior opportunity to award a free kick if the player does not make a genuine attempt to dispose of the ball.

If a player is tackled immediately when they take possession they still have to make a genuine attempt to dispose of it.