Stop the boats. 5k a head. (cont. in Part 2)

[JeffDunne]

isn't that what Labor was trying to do for 6 years?

Nah. They were trying to pacify the Howard blue-collar xenophobes without tearing the sticky-tape off the coalition with the Greens.

To repeat: If Australian citizens were conducting delivering unauthorised foreign nationals to Indonesian sovereign territory we would be hearing all about it. Very loudly.
Indonesia is not being asked to do anything that it would not demand of Australia if the situation were the reverse.

Surely you've been around long enough to know countries in any relationship don't hold themselves to the same level of accountability they demand of the other? That's due to the domestic politics being different in each country.

If it were Australian people smugglers as per your example, it would be Australian outrage that stopped it not Indonesian.

 

[CM86]

no its not a weak point, as usual , when you don't agree , you never state why, its not good enough to say weak point, clarify

With pleasure richmonds!
You ask, and I serve.

The first point, justifying the current situation, by saying that the Government that was voted out did the same thing is a weak point, and gives no justification. Especially as, according to this thread, they were voted in to "fix it".

The second point; of course we would be hearing about it, if we were sending boats to Indonesia... We are when we turn them back.

Australia is a first world country, Indonesia is basically third world. How could the situation be reversed?

It's like saying "We give annual financial aid to Sudan, why can't they give us money in return?".


Edit: PottSie2 liked your post....
Amazing that you call me out for making statements, without backing it up. Then I do, and you run away!

 

[Xsess]

This debate was over the moment boat arrivals dramatically slowed and this thread become a sook fest demanding to know all the operational details(?) and fixated on Australia supposedly upsetting Indonesia by returning their own boats and people smuggling crews.

 

[Gough]

http://www.theguardian.com/commenti...ustralia-our-government-deserves-nothing-less

It's time for UN sanctions on Australia. Our government deserves nothing less

After 20 years of steadily increasing cruelty towards refugees, it’s time to admit that we’ve reached a stalemate. Enter the need for a new approach: sanctions against the Australian state

Antony Loewenstein
Monday 20 January 2014 09.54 EST
284 comments
This month, the United Nations accused Canberra of potentially breaking international law by forcibly repelling refugee boats back to Indonesia. Adrian Edwards, spokesman for the UN high commissioner for refugees, said that the international body was “concerned by any policy or practice that involved pushing asylum-seeker boats back at sea without a proper consideration of individual needs for protection.” He continued: “any such approach would raise significant issues and potentially place Australia in breach of its obligations under the 1951 refugee convention and other international law obligations.”
The comments were brushed aside as soon as they were uttered. Prime minister Tony Abbott’s administration insists that its policies are legal and safe, and the vast bulk of Australians apparently back even harsher methods against asylum seekers. It is now clear who has won this battle, and it isn’t the forces pushing for moderation.
After 20 years of steadily increasing cruelty towards refugees, it’s time to admit that we’ve reached a stalemate. Simply arguing for a more humane approach has failed. Reason, international law and common sense are no match against inflammatory media reporting, false fears about asylum seekers living in the community, and politicians proudly punishing the most vulnerable in the name of “deterrence.”
Enter the need for a new approach, one that seriously ups the ante: sanctions against the Australian state for ignoring humanitarian law. Australia deserves nothing less. A price must be paid, in a political and economic sense, for flagrantly breaching Australian and international conventions. This could be directed at both the multinationals such as Serco and G4S, who are administering the government's policies, and the bank accounts and assets maintained by government ministers and officials.

I doubt this would happen, but again, the fact that this could even possible shows just how deranged this country has got it's policy when it comes to this issue of refugees.

 

[Norwegian Blue]

Just over one hundred days into the Abbott term and there some here speculating on an armed confrontation with our nearest neighbour. As unlikely as that is in my opinion, it doesn't say much about the diplomacy or lack of employed by his government.

The fact that some are speculating about such a scenario says **** all about the government. However, it does say a lot about the halfwits doing the speculating.

I feel dumber for having read the last 6 pages.

 

[midorigreenwood]

clearly a troll-piece by professional stirrer Lowenstein.

 

[Gough]

The fact that some are speculating about such a scenario says **** all about the government. However, it does say a lot about the halfwits doing the speculating.

I feel dumber for having read the last 6 pages.

And your solution to the issue would be...?

 

[CM86]

http://www.theguardian.com/commenti...ustralia-our-government-deserves-nothing-less

I doubt this would happen, but again, the fact that this could even possible shows just how deranged this country has got it's policy when it comes to this issue of refugees.

inb4 guardian beat up. Without any form of argument or explanation as to why it should be disregarded..

edit: Dammit midorigreen beat me to it!

 

[CLUBMEDhurst]

This debate was over the moment boat arrivals dramatically slowed and this thread become a sook fest demanding to know all the operational details(?) and fixated on Australia supposedly upsetting Indonesia by returning their own boats and people smuggling crews.

Only for halfwits that believe what the gummint tells 'em

 

[ross warren]

why doesn't Lowenstein call for a boycott of Israel aswell , as their lovely treatment of the Palestinians calls for it, another hypocrite of the left, why are their so many

 

[CLUBMEDhurst]

why doesn't Lowenstein call for a boycott of Israel aswell , as their lovely treatment of the Palestinians calls for it, another hypocrite of the left, why are their so many

He has

 

[Brown Bottle]

Only for halfwits that believe what the gummint tells 'em

Wait! Wut? The Gummint told someone something?

 

[ross warren]

sorry you got me confused , I thought you were waiting for another poster called richmonds to respond, ps I like your post

 

[ross warren]

CM86,one thing I have noted all you luvvies like each other posts all the time, no matter what shit you write, it seems like you have a boys club going

 

[Gough]

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-01-...s-australian-magistrate-chief-justice/5207600

Nauru's justice system has been thrown into chaos after its chief justice and only magistrate - both Australian citizens - were barred from the country.
The country's solicitor-general, Steven Bliim, has now tended his resignation and the ABC believes a Melbourne-based solicitor has this morning arrived in the Pacific nation to preside as magistrate.
On Sunday morning, Nauru's president Baron Waqa fired resident magistrate and supreme court registrar Peter Law.

Raises a few questions as to why we are sending refugees to a country whose president seems to show a casual disregard for the judicial system.

 

[ross warren]

please don't forget Nauru is a third world country , this is an excuse raised on Indonesia's behalf when asked to take some responsibility for their behaviour , so if its good enough for Indonesia to behave as they wish , well its good enough for Nauru thankyou very much

 

[Gough]

please don't forget Nauru is a third world country , this is an excuse raised on Indonesia's behalf when asked to take some responsibility for their behaviour , so if its good enough for Indonesia to behave as they wish , well its good enough for Nauru thankyou very much

So how about we as Australians take a bit of responsibility as well, instead of palming it off to places like Nauru and Manus?

 

[JeffDunne]

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-01-...s-australian-magistrate-chief-justice/5207600

Raises a few questions as to why we are sending refugees to a country whose president seems to show a casual disregard for the judicial system.

Nauru should have raised plenty of questions over the decades in regards to Australia's policies in the region, unfortunately history has shown the voting public couldn't give a shit.

Throw refugees into the mix and I reckon sadly they'll care even less.

 

[Xsess]

So how about we as Australians take a bit of responsibility as well, instead of palming it off to places like Nauru and Manus?

You make it sound like we dont have one of the largest humanitarian intakes per capita, in the world

 

[Gough]

http://www.sbs.com.au/news/article/2011/01/05/glance-who-takes-most-asylum-claims

Capacities and contributions of host countries
Australia was 68th on a per capita basis and 91st relative to national wealth.
Asylum applications in 2009
Australia was ranked 33rd for total asylum applications with 6206 new applications in 2009.
It was 41st on a per capita basis and 71st relative to national Gross Domestic Product (GDP).
*Humanitarian Program visas granted: 13,507
*The Humanitarian Program includes asylum applications both from outside Australia and from asylum seekers being held in Australia's detention centres.

It's because we don't and aren't even close to it.

 

[Norwegian Blue]

And your solution to the issue would be...?

In the event that Australia and Indonesia come to blows, my solution will be to fly my invisible pink unicorn between the opposing military forces and use the unicorn's rainbow farts to promote peace and harmony.

 

[romeoh]

In the event that Australia and Indonesia come to blows, my solution will be to fly my invisible pink unicorn between the opposing military forces and use the unicorn's rainbow farts to promote peace and harmony.

Say that again Tone?

 

[PottSie2]

inb4 guardian beat up. Without any form of argument or explanation as to why it should be disregarded..

edit: Dammit midorigreen beat me to it!

The article starts off okay, but descends quite quickly into a "Australia should face sanctions because I do not agree with the policy" tirade that laughingly ties in Coal to the agenda

"The Australian government feels invincible, protected under America’s security blanket and selling its dirty coal to the world"

He fails to determine whether Australia's actions are illegal.
He fails to mention that these new policies have saved lives (1000+ lost at sea under the previous policy, but then "accidents happen" I suppose).
He describes these Asylum Seekers as the most vulnerable, but fails to mention that thousands to tens-of-thousands that each pay to try and get here, as opposed to the truly vulnerable, sitting in UNHCR camps without access to said wealth.
He believes that the UN should have more say over a country than its constituents.

In a nutshell, it's just another tear-laden diatribe from another left-leaning greenie who believes he is above others who don't agree with him, who can't decide if he's more angry about Abbott's policies or the fact they are working and does nothing practical to help those in need.

 

[CLUBMEDhurst]

The article starts off okay, but descends quite quickly into a "Australia should face sanctions because I do not agree with the policy" tirade that laughingly ties in Coal to the agenda


He fails to determine whether Australia's actions are illegal.
He fails to mention that these new policies have saved lives (1000+ lost at sea under the previous policy, but then "accidents happen" I suppose).
He describes these Asylum Seekers as the most vulnerable, but fails to mention that thousands to tens-of-thousands that each pay to try and get here, as opposed to the truly vulnerable, sitting in UNHCR camps without access to said wealth.
He believes that the UN should have more say over a country than its constituents.

In a nutshell, it's just another tear-laden diatribe from another left-leaning greenie who believes he is above others who don't agree with him, who can't decide if he's more angry about Abbott's policies or the fact they are working and does nothing practical to help those in need.

Here Pottsie, this may help

http://theconversation.com/explainer-the-legal-implications-of-tow-backs-22151

 

[PottSie2]

Here Pottsie, this may help

http://theconversation.com/explainer-the-legal-implications-of-tow-backs-22151

Ta. The convention itself is vague and highly interpretive and I believe the Coalition use this basis to claim what it is doing is legal. It will end up in the courts no doubt.