List Mgmt. 2015 general list discussion and speculation - PLEASE START NEW THREAD ON BREAKING NEWS

[OzeSparky]

Not this again, I hope your not being serious.

yeah i am.

 

[Lana]

yeah i am.

Essentially every five or so pages on this thread someone suggests we trade under performing fringe player who is a good chance to be delisted to poor team "X" because what they really need to improve is our depth players. Those kinds of players have next to zero trade value and in most cases you'd have to pay them to take the player. Read to kill a mockingbird and learn to walk in Melbourne's list managers shoes, they won't want what your offering.

 

[Jon Douglas]

If we could upgrade one of our first 3 ND picks we should trade Poodle.

If we could rap up Poodle and a few other on the outer players and a 3 rd round draft pick for Toumpas it maybe worth considering as well. But think the Demons would want more than this.

Maybe Brown and Poodle and our third ND pick ? Or Brown, Stringer and Poodle for Toumpas. Frees up spots on the list for Wells to get few selections as well as upgrading Blitz. They are all young enough and 2 of them pretty hard at it players and a tall that will probably be as good as Watts !

Prefer to keep Schroder but I suspect he may well be on the table if someone was will to offer a good trade.

 

[OzeSparky]

Essentially every five or so pages on this thread someone suggests we trade under performing fringe player who is a good chance to be delisted to poor team "X" because what they really need to improve is our depth players. Those kinds of players have next to zero trade value and in most cases you'd have to pay them to take the player. Read to kill a mockingbird and learn to walk in Melbourne's list managers shoes, they won't want what your offering.

shit back and watch it happen. whoops i mean sit...

Geelong are a superior team in every way to the lower ones.
They like getting our players in because they have been in a elite enviroment.

Our fringe players are not the normal fringe players that these teams have, they are definately better.

 

[Turbocat]

Essentially every five or so pages on this thread someone suggests we trade under performing fringe player who is a good chance to be delisted to poor team "X" because what they really need to improve is our depth players. Those kinds of players have next to zero trade value and in most cases you'd have to pay them to take the player. Read to kill a mockingbird and learn to walk in Melbourne's list managers shoes, they won't want what your offering.

Can I ask...."To Kill a Mocking Bird" , now this is the something new. Ive been on this board for ....probably too long , cant remember that being mentioned before. Never read it , seen the movie but I guess like most great books , the movie is not a patch on the book.

Can you give me the gist of your meaning?

 

[Turbocat]

If we could upgrade one of our first 3 ND picks we should trade Poodle.

If we could rap up Poodle and a few other on the outer players and a 3 rd round draft pick for Toumpas it maybe worth considering as well. But think the Demons would want more than this.

Maybe Brown and Poodle and our third ND pick ? Or Brown, Stringer and Poodle for Toumpas. Frees up spots on the list for Wells to get few selections as well as upgrading Blitz. They are all young enough and 2 of them pretty hard at it players and a tall that will probably be as good as Watts !

Prefer to keep Schroder but I suspect he may well be on the table if someone was will to offer a good trade.

Melb players have been raised trade targets.."On the Couch" but the current coach of Melb , the one who knows them better than us is saying some guys have mental scars. So who is he talking about cause Im not sure I want someone like that. Yet we have Rivers at our club , was he scarred? Probably took him 12 months to washout the Melb effect according to him. If we are chasing Frawley is he scarred?

Has Tompas been their long enough for him to be scarred? Was he over rated. Is he still the same player. Any kid, can be good but lose it thru injury.

When I saw him in the U18's he was a general in the middle. Sort a Kelly type. If the start getting rid of him somebody will be interested but he has probably devalued even more than GWS kids, so would they trade him for an R2? Would they trade him for a couple of good VFL kids plus a middle pick? Forget R1. Not going to happen.

I wonder who would be interested in Poodle. I suspect North will be after pace , maybe they are a little heavy on inside types but would they trade for him. They know we have to delist someone, so if they do trade it will not be a lot. Maybe could trade Harper for him, he is not getting a game either.

 

[Turbocat]

Thought Re quote this in a draft thread . Ben Cavarra...



... Thanks Bobby_




http://www.heraldsun.com.au/leader/...ssion-in-the-vfl/story-fnglemo4-1226993293778

You and me both. He was simply outstanding in every facet last year for Ranges.
He was named as Frankston's BEST again this week.
If he is fit, he will give nothing less than 100%.
AFL MC's are evidently heightists.

VDubs , thought Id requote this in a non VFL thread .

I thought of this guy last night when I was watching Open Mike. MS interviewed Stewie Lowie. An interesting comment at one stage as a kid was that he was originally on the Hawks junior list , and in a Junior game his mother made him play with a helmet after breaking his cheek/jaw. He lined V SOS and obviously the helmet and the jaw... didn't create a good look. He got the phone call from Yabby post game saying "Thanks but see you later"

He only went on to play 320 odd games. Shows there are lots of re judgments and helmets are one of them . Think Jimmy went thru that as well.

I wonder if Cavarra not only had issues with height.

So then I look at the Frankston picture and he is now playing without one, which makes me think why he wore it in the first place

 

[Lana]

Can I ask...."To Kill a Mocking Bird" , now this is the something new. Ive been on this board for ....probably too long , cant remember that being mentioned before. Never read it , seen the movie but I guess like most great books , the movie is not a patch on the book.

Can you give me the gist of your meaning?

It's a book about AFL trading and negotiation, former AFL list manager Matt Rendell would recommend it.

A little more seriously, first hit on Google gets the quote by Atticus Finch

"First of all," he said, "if you can learn a simple trick, Scout, you'll get along a lot better with all kinds of folks. You never really understand a person until you consider things from his point of view […] until you climb into his skin and walk around in it."

In this case he was talking about prejudiced by it really applies to almost everything in life involving interactions between person, especially negotiation.

For a trade to be made both sides must at the time of the trade see some perceived benefit. If one side gains too much more than the other, the trade wont be done, if one side is clearly losing it almost certainly wont go through unless there is a strong external pressure.

Too many of the trades suggested have such a massively lob sided benefit in our favor. I mean just on this page we've had Toumpus for Hunt, Brown and our third pick(which is in the late fifties). Never-mind the fact that both Geelong players are out of contract and could essentially walk to there club of choice.

An equivalent trade the other way would be giving Thurlow for Bail, Fitzpatrick and a fourth round pick. No Geelong fan would want to see that happen.

To us players like Brown and Hunt and Stringer have value since we have been watching them for years and are heavily invested in them.

So what does to kill a Mockingbird have to do with AFL list management? Before suggesting a trade take a look at the how the trade looks from the other side's perspective, would you take the deal if it was reversed.

If you can't remove the Geelong bias, come up with an equivalent trade with two other teams and see if it would be a good deal for both, if so suggest away, otherwise its a bad offer and look at another trade.

 

[FredLeDeux]

Can I ask...."To Kill a Mocking Bird" , now this is the something new. Ive been on this board for ....probably too long , cant remember that being mentioned before. Never read it , seen the movie but I guess like most great books , the movie is not a patch on the book.

Can you give me the gist of your meaning?

They were and are both magnificent.

 

[Turbocat]

It's a book about AFL trading and negotiation, former AFL list manager Matt Rendell would recommend it.

A little more seriously, first hit on Google gets the quote by Atticus Finch

"First of all," he said, "if you can learn a simple trick, Scout, you'll get along a lot better with all kinds of folks. You never really understand a person until you consider things from his point of view […] until you climb into his skin and walk around in it."

In this case he was talking about prejudiced by it really applies to almost everything in life involving interactions between person, especially negotiation.

For a trade to be made both sides must at the time of the trade see some perceived benefit. If one side gains too much more than the other, the trade wont be done, if one side is clearly losing it almost certainly wont go through unless there is a strong external pressure.

Too many of the trades suggested have such a massively lob sided benefit in our favor. I mean just on this page we've had Toumpus for Hunt, Brown and our third pick(which is in the late fifties). Never-mind the fact that both Geelong players are out of contract and could essentially walk to there club of choice.

An equivalent trade the other way would be giving Thurlow for Bail, Fitzpatrick and a fourth round pick. No Geelong fan would want to see that happen.

To us players like Brown and Hunt and String have value since we have been watching them for years and are heavily invested in them.

So what does to kill a Mockingbird have to do with AFL list management? Before suggestion a trade look at the what the trade looks are from the other side's perspective, would you take the deal if it was reversed.

If you can't remove the Geelong bias come up with an equivalent trade with two other teams and see if it would be a good deal for both, if so suggest away, otherwise its a bad suggestion and look at another trade.

Nice post. I remember that from the movie , I thought you may have been saying Melbourne was the mockingbird.

Funny , I just finished reading "The Godfather" , it sort of had a different spin on deals.

 

[meto]

10lana,.....Thing is, Hunt, Stringer and Sherringham can play, big numbers at VFL level and capable AFL players if given ample opportunity.
No opportunity at Geelong for these guys, just like Simpkin.

 

[Lana]

10lana,.....Thing is, Hunt, Stringer and Sherringham can play, big numbers at VFL level and capable AFL players if given ample opportunity.
No opportunity at Geelong for these guys, just like Simpkin.

I don't doubt their ability at VFL level the thing is all clubs have similar players who are too good for VFL level but not good enough to be more than bit players at AFL level. An more knowledgeable person than myself could comb through the teams and list probably half a dozen or more per team. There would also be another hundred players in the SANFL, WAFL, VFL and other state leagues who aren't AFL listed but who would perform at similar level. There are a large supply of players who perform at a similar level to an AFL fringe player, this causes a massive downwards pressure on the value of fringe players on the trade table. Some like T.Hunt have more value than others by the amount of experience he has at AFL level but overall his value is low. Ultimately is an issue of supply and demand.

Trade picks are the currency between clubs, but they lack the attributes that make a good currency. Which is one of the reasons so few trades occurs( the recent increase of trade occurred because the addition of the compensation picks and would disappear if they are discontinued)
Made even worse by the fact that each club has a different subject value on both players vs picks and the relative value of late picks vs early picks.

This is a cause the kinds of trades that Freemantle did in it's earlier years.
This is one of the causes the pick down grade trades that Wells has done in recent years and what St kilda has done in the last three years.

 

[Turbocat]

10lana,.....Thing is, Hunt, Stringer and Sherringham can play, big numbers at VFL level and capable AFL players if given ample opportunity.
No opportunity at Geelong for these guys, just like Simpkin.

They can play and just like Simpkin will probably walk somewhere as a delisted FA. Hunt and Stringer are listed at least but Teddy is all but gone. If someone wants him they will have him for zip.
The question I guess is... Are Stringer and Hunt Out of Contract? Do you see Geelong wanting them on the list next year and offering them a contract. If not .... they walk as well.

 

[manboob]

Can I ask...."To Kill a Mocking Bird" , now this is the something new. Ive been on this board for ....probably too long , cant remember that being mentioned before. Never read it , seen the movie but I guess like most great books , the movie is not a patch on the book.

Can you give me the gist of your meaning?

Such a good book!

 

[Footy Smarts]

10lana,.....Thing is, Hunt, Stringer and Sherringham can play, big numbers at VFL level and capable AFL players if given ample opportunity.
No opportunity at Geelong for these guys, just like Simpkin.

And nor should there be. We're rebuilding to try and produce a premiership era again. You don't do that while still being competitive by keeping honest decent footballers with little improvement.

Getting rid of Simpkin was the correct move. At no point since then would he have been a regular except if we had significant injuries. He wouldn't have got a game for us on the weekend for example. Good on him for finding a team that needed solid depth and managing to get a flag (pity it was at Hawthorn) but we were right not to give him a spot on our list. Same with West and it'll likely be the same with Hunt and Sheringham this year. Probably Stringer too although I've got a slight hunch that they think he's got more improvement in him than the other 2.

 

[Turbocat]

Such a good book!

Maybe I should read it. Bit high brow for me Id have thought. Usually just like something light.

 

[manboob]

Maybe I should read it. Bit high brow for me Id have thought. Usually just like something light.

Nah I read it in year 8. You'll be fine.

 

[OzeSparky]

Nah I read it in year 8. You'll be fine.

How many apples did you take to class?

 

[meto]

They can play and just like Simpkin will probably walk somewhere as a delisted FA. Hunt and Stringer are listed at least but Teddy is all but gone. If someone wants him they will have him for zip.
The question I guess is... Are Stringer and Hunt Out of Contract? Do you see Geelong wanting them on the list next year and offering them a contract. If not .... they walk as well.

I'll raise the issue of Varcoe, a bloke that should've been dropped but never has, over the last 2 seasons has played pathetic senior footy, but these other guys waste away in the two's no matter?
They consistently rack up BOG's, are listed among the best, and perform strong serviceable duty when rarely called upon. How can you judge them as just everyday VFL quality when they've had no opportunity to develop as seniors from the get go, bias and favouritism to a large degree has prevented their development at Geelong imo.
Geelong put Varcoe out there for trade and no one wanted him, now we're turning guys away for the sake of this guy no one wants except us, no matter he stalls the progress of others.
If we want to develop move him on!

 

[vinum coupe]

In other words, he's jacked off and would want out! I don't blame him either, it's the club or Wells, they just have no clues drafting and developing talls, especially tall forwards.
We'll probably have to pay overs for a ready made but I don't think they want that, or aren't prepared to pay the truck load to get it done.
Sam Ried or Ben Griffiths Richmond might be worth a look the Swan would be more expensive I'd say, and their are other options.

It's simply amazing that we've won 3 flags with no quality talls.

 

[Pivo]

Melb players have been raised trade targets.."On the Couch" but the current coach of Melb , the one who knows them better than us is saying some guys have mental scars. So who is he talking about cause Im not sure I want someone like that. Yet we have Rivers at our club , was he scarred? Probably took him 12 months to washout the Melb effect according to him. If we are chasing Frawley is he scarred?

Has Tompas been their long enough for him to be scarred?

No, he has only been at Melbourne since the end of 2012. There should be no such scarring for him.

Was he over rated. Is he still the same player. Any kid, can be good but lose it thru injury.

He wasn't overrated based on his junior career. Lead SA at U18 level in 2012 and was named AA. Played senior footy for Woodville-West Torrens and starred in the Eagles Grand Final win in the SANFL as a 17 year old.

Came into his first year off hip surgery and has been pretty unlucky since arriving at Melbourne (even suffering appendicitis this year).

That sort of run would contribute to patchy form as he can't get consistency.

The kid, I strongly believe, can play and signed an extension tying him to Melbourne until the end of 2015.

Throwing a bunch of fringe types and our third rounder at Melbourne like Jon Douglas suggested isn't going to get Toumpas. If it did get the trade done, then Melbourne know something about Toumpas that external parties don't.

If Melbourne came to us and offered Cameron Pedersen, Rohan Bail, Sam Blease and their 3rd round pick for Jackson Thurlow would anyone accept it?

I highly doubt it. Having to make list space for the additional players coming in would be one issue for a start.

 

[TheJimmyCartel]

They can play and just like Simpkin will probably walk somewhere as a delisted FA. Hunt and Stringer are listed at least but Teddy is all but gone. If someone wants him they will have him for zip.
The question I guess is... Are Stringer and Hunt Out of Contract? Do you see Geelong wanting them on the list next year and offering them a contract. If not .... they walk as well.

Pretty sure I read THunt put contact talks on hold til end of the season.

 

[sarah.13]

I'll raise the issue of Varcoe, a bloke that should've been dropped but never has, over the last 2 seasons has played pathetic senior footy, but these other guys waste away in the two's no matter?
They consistently rack up BOG's, are listed among the best, and perform strong serviceable duty when rarely called upon. How can you judge them as just everyday VFL quality when they've had no opportunity to develop as seniors from the get go, bias and favouritism to a large degree has prevented their development at Geelong imo.
Geelong put Varcoe out there for trade and no one wanted him, now we're turning guys away for the sake of this guy no one wants except us, no matter he stalls the progress of others.
If we want to develop move him on!

No one's biting this time?

 

[sarah.13]

Brown and Hunt are both out of contract at the end of the year.
If another club was to offer them any more than a 1 year contract they'll be gone as can't see us offering any more than that.

 

[dazbroncos]

No, he has only been at Melbourne since the end of 2012. There should be no such scarring for him.



He wasn't overrated based on his junior career. Lead SA at U18 level in 2012 and was named AA. Played senior footy for Woodville-West Torrens and starred in the Eagles Grand Final win in the SANFL as a 17 year old.

Came into his first year off hip surgery and has been pretty unlucky since arriving at Melbourne (even suffering appendicitis this year).

That sort of run would contribute to patchy form as he can't get consistency.

The kid, I strongly believe, can play and signed an extension tying him to Melbourne until the end of 2015.

Throwing a bunch of fringe types and our third rounder at Melbourne like Jon Douglas suggested isn't going to get Toumpas. If it did get the trade done, then Melbourne know something about Toumpas that external parties don't.

If Melbourne came to us and offered Cameron Pedersen, Rohan Bail, Sam Blease and their 3rd round pick for Jackson Thurlow would anyone accept it?

I highly doubt it. Having to make list space for the additional players coming in would be one issue for a start.

Agree that the bit parts would not get Toumpas. I think kid can play too but has just had a Barry Crocker of a time and now is dealing with being passed by the newer recruits. Word was that Roos was not the greatest fan either - but that could be BF BS.
Given that he has done SFA since he got drafted the Rd1 value would have softened a bit but T Hunt and our 2nd for him might entice them.

Would help us with list management and gets him here, and gets Poodle more game time.

Not saying I want Poodle gone either but just looking at realistic trade values…

GO Catters