Injury Could Elliott's career be over?

[Markfs]

I remember how worried the BF family was about your mishap.

Amazing what a warm flannel and olive oil can achieve.

olive oil has been amazing for my arthritis.... as for the mishap.....which one? .. i've fallen off 3 ladders in the last month peering into windows...

 

[Markfs]

Just googled her......you're not wrong Mark!

View attachment 248075

thats what i call a key position player....if we can manage to recruit her for the women's side, I'll be able to dump the guys for good

 

[Jasper84]

Can tell you now champ, I won't be giving up s**t.

You can s**t on my Googlefu all you like but it turned out accurate in this instance. I formed an opinion based on the information I had available to me that Jamie's year could be over. I said "MAY" for the exact reason you're berating me for. I'm not a medical professional. But I am an English speaking human being with at least basic reading comprehension skills. I also happen to have functioning eyeballs.

So, back then, based on all the information I had read, combined with the visual information my eyes had provided me, I hypothesised that I felt Jamie's year COULD be over given all that information available to me. The maybe was an obvious qualifier because I"m not a professional.

But guess what buddy? Jamie's out for the year. So yeah, I'm no medical professional, but maybe my reasoning and logic skills aren't so bad?

Again this isn't about wanting to be right, or "I told you so". This sure as s**t isn't something I'd want to be right about. But this IS a discussion forum. I gave an opinion on something based on information I had on hand. Some chose to rationally debate my conclusion, other chose to attack much like yourself today. I don't care if I'm right or wrong, I just want to discuss properly. I'm MORE than happy to be proven wrong. I've said this before. I like learning new s**t, especially from someone who knows better (like yourself?), but in the end, I never attacked you, so don't attack me. I don't give as s**t if you think I'm talking s**t.

Because ultimately, it turns out my own "shitty" made up diagnosis wasn't too far from the truth.

Following this line of thinking, based the information available to me, I'm going to say that Dane Swan’s season may be over. If it turns out to be the case then my medical knowledge is spot on. If he does come back then I'll be stoked. So it's a win/semi win for me.

But most importantly, I want everyone to remember that as of now I'm saying "Dane Swan MAY not play again this season"

 

[Sultan]

Link?

But I am an English speaking human being with at least basic reading comprehension skills. I also happen to have functioning eyeballs.

Having my doubts.

 

[Markfs]

What a name....Luisana Lopilato

and that's coming from a guy called JM christ?....i've heard that it isnt her real name... it's her BF name

 

[CFC2010]

thats what i call a key position player....if we can manage to recruit her for the women's side, I'll be able to dump the guys for good

Have we ever had an Argentinian play Australian Rules Football??

She would be a massive coup for the Pies.......I am emailing Gubby as soon as I post this

 

[Markfs]

i've been reading TG latest publication "Medical Procedures for Depressed Individuals" and it says that this Pars Defect thing can be fixed if you treat the thing when the person is pre teen.... before the growth spurt.... which begs the question Why didnt our medical people do something earlier?

 

[Collingwoodity]

and that's coming from a guy called JM christ?....i've heard that it isnt her real name... it's her BF name

Haha. It's Chris plus initials.

 

[Collingwoodity]

Have we ever had an Argentinian play Australian Rules Football??

She would be a massive coup for the Pies.......I am emailing Gubby as soon as I post this

Think of the PR!

I'd definitely get her number on my shirt

 

[ppoiter]

Sure. We trust medical professionals because of their expertise.

They shouldn't be given the same weight. I must have missed where TG contradicted the opinion released by the medical professional.

Thought you were talking about someone else, quoted post was in the middle of a debate between two other posters

 

[WalterBlaknWhte]

Having my doubts.

Sultan, are you loitering because you have fallen out with the 3 other members on the GWS board?

 

[Cousin of Daicos]

Sultan, are you loitering because you have fallen out with the 3 other members on the GWS board?

Yeah I'm kinda just ignoring him because I'm not sure why he's asking for a link to something that seems fairly obvious. Kinda tiresome to deal with people who seem to take everything on face value without even attempting to join the dots themselves.

Let's be realistic here. It's HIGHLY unlikely Jamie Elliott will be getting back to senior football this year. VFL? Possibly....maybe if all goes well. Seniors? Yeah nah.

The Magpies had indicated from the outset he would need a block of six weeks of full training and then matches in the VFL – once he had been cleared to return to the main group – before he would be considered for a senior call up.

This was already going to take him deep into the home and away season.

He's seeing the specialist in the week of Round 10. Let's assume the specialist said he's right to train STRAIGHT AWAY, six weeks training puts us at Round 16 of 23. Then he needs matches int he VFL, let's say he plays 3? That puts us at Round 19 of 23 in a highly unlikely scenario where the NEW specialist clears him for training from next week, which won't happen.

So yeah, he's done for the year. Which honestly, if they want him back for NEXT season fit and firing, is the right move.

 

[Markfs]

Think of the PR!

I'd definitely get her number on my shirt

a committed fan would tattoo her face on his butt....but you can work your way up

 

[Markfs]

evidently this pars defect thing affects the nerves to the face.... makes it almost impossible to smile.... he may never recover...although my sources close to the club tell me that they are going to send his to the USA to get his smile nerve fixed.....it's 50/50

 

[The Royal Sampler]

evidently this pars defect thing affects the nerves to the face.... makes it almost impossible to smile.... he may never recover...although my sources close to the club tell me that they are going to send his to the USA to get his smile nerve fixed.....it's 50/50

Other way round, his constant frowning created intolerable shear forces at the level of the lumbar spine, causing the pars defect. Part of Elliott's modified rehab program involved intensive smile therapy, but he watched an episode of The Footy Show with mates and immediately began writhing in pain on the couch.

 

[WalterBlaknWhte]

a committed fan would tattoo her face on his butt....but you can work your way up

A committed fan would need to be very confident of never going to prison.

 

[TW Sherrin]

Sorry. I didnt mean to offend. It's just that we're trying to work out whether Elliott's career could be finished and medical mumbo jumbo might complicate the discussion unnecessarily.

It's relevant to know what it is.

I'll leave the online treatment recommendations to others.

 

[Magpie Girl]

are you trying to confuse us all Collingwoodity?

 

[neilk]

Islay

Whoops, too quick to hit send. Islay, pronounce ILA.

 

[WalterBlaknWhte]

are you trying to confuse us all Collingwoodity?

Not you MG

Your IQ is above 145

 

[Sultan]

Sultan, are you loitering because you have fallen out with the 3 other members on the GWS board?

Elliott is in my dynasty team, so I have an unhealthy obsession with him...

 

[Collingwoodity]

are you trying to confuse us all Collingwoodity?

I hope not. Just felt a more Collingwood name would do more justice.

 

[Magpie Girl]

I hope not. Just felt a more Collingwood name would do more justice.

Invoking Christ was fairly just but perhaps not as much as Collingwood

 

[Gone Critical]

It's asking the question. There's nothing wrong with the thread title. Read up about the injury, given the shitty, unprofessional way in which the club is managing it, there's every chance we've prematurely ended his career.

Hopefully that's not the case because Elliott is one of the few genuinely classy players we have on the list.

Once you start saying that he's been managed "shittily" and that the people looking after him are unprofessional, that's exactly the sort of response you deserve.

You know very little about the condition, you know nothing about the specifics of Elliott's physical make-up, you know next to nothing about what program Elliott has been put on or how adherent he's been to it, and yet you're prepared to label to staff looking after him as unprofessional and suggest they have brought about the end of his career.

You're embarrassing; pull your head in.

No no no, medical professionals never get it wrong. Ever. No. Not ever.

Who knows, maybe the non-medicos are to blame within the club? Maybe the medicos DID suggest no activity for Jamie and the fitness/conditioning guys got pissy about him losing too much conditioning and pressure was placed to come up with a middle ground?

Who the hell knows. Either way, we've lost one of our best players for a full season now. Not sure how else to assess that other than mismanagement of a manageable injury.

And just to be clear, I'm not saying there wasn't negligence involved, I'm saying we don't have the information necessary to make that determination.

Sometimes you can make that determination based purely upon the outcome, like when a patient goes in for surgery and comes out with a scalpel left in their abdomen. A patient with a pars defect not recovering fully with initial conservative management, isn't one of those instances.

This has been an interesting discussion and one that highlights a bit of a frustration I have had of recent times. Probably not hard to guess but I am going into bat for TRS here. Here is a poster who has more practical and intellectual knowledge of this area than anyone else on our board. He is clearly stating that on the information available to us and with the medical knowledge most on this board have there is no way of saying whether Elliott's par defect has been expertly managed or mismanaged. It a question we can't answer. The same rule applies to most of the medical and fitness management at the Collingwood FC. We just don't have the inside knowledge or expertise to answer this question. Seems to me when TRS says that anyone else on the board should perhaps sit back and assess whether their previously strongly held beliefs are valid.

Just want to tell a little story to try and flesh out why some posters should review their position. I have been working as a doctor for over 30 years now. Started as a medical student in 1980 and graduated in 1985. 6 years of cramming all sorts of medical knowledge into my head. Pre clinical years of anatomy, physiology, pathology etc etc. Clinical years , hours and hours of study of all sorts of disease processes and information. Came out a newly qualified quack at the start of 1986. I had a mass of knowledge in my head. 6 years worth.

Remember clearly my 1st week on the job. Got called to the ward by a nurse who had a problem with a surgical patient with a fever. I raced up there with all the knowledge I could muster. I stammered around for a while going through lists of problems in my mind. What should I do here? Fortunately the nurse, who I know was laughing to herself, put me out of my misery.

All she wanted, as she told me , was for me to write a panadol order on the drug chart. The last thing she wanted me to do was to make any type of decision about what should be done with her patient. She knew, and I soon learned, that I had a lot of knowledge but I knew nothing. It was of great relief to me. I soon realised I could do some paper work and clerking while I started to learn how to be a doctor. I worked for 2 years and then began working and studying for another 7 years to become a specialist. And the further I went the more learnt about the things I didn't know. I learnt more about the nuances of my profession, the variations and things that I couldn't learn just from reading a book or journal. I realised there was always more to learn and understand and that each day these things learned added to my craft.

So here I sit with all that medical knowledge but very little of it directed towards management of football injuries. Still that knowledge allows me to know that when TRS says we can have no idea about how good the management of Elliott's injury has been he is correct. I know it because I deal with medical issues everyday and I know what it takes in general terms to make such a judgement. I also know based on my working experience even though I have knowledge I know nothing about managing a pars defect.

Still I see Shepshal Ed say he has googled articles and read things so he knows Collingwood have managed Elliott "shittily". Ed, TRS tried to explain to you in pretty nice terms that you know nothing. Dr Google just doesn't allow you to understand the nuances of the management of a pars defect and you don't have any real knowledge about his management anyway. Eat some humble pie and understand when a qualified physio who works in the area explains to you why you can't make the judgements you are making they have a bank of knowledge but more importantly "know" the field in a way you can't just by getting into Google. One of the things that you learn as you get experience in any field is what you don't know. It informs all the decisions you make. When TRS tells you you don't know think why that may be.


Sorry for the rant.

 

[Cousin of Daicos]

This has been an interesting discussion and one that highlights a bit of a frustration I have had of recent times. Probably not hard to guess but I am going into bat for TRS here. Here is a poster who has more practical and intellectual knowledge of this area than anyone else on our board. He is clearly stating that on the information available to us and with the medical knowledge most on this board have there is no way of saying whether Elliott's par defect has been expertly managed or mismanaged. It a question we can't answer. The same rule applies to most of the medical and fitness management at the Collingwood FC. We just don't have the inside knowledge or expertise to answer this question. Seems to me when TRS says that anyone else on the board should perhaps sit back and assess whether their previously strongly held beliefs are valid.

Just want to tell a little story to try and flesh out why some posters should review their position. I have been working as a doctor for over 30 years now. Started as a medical student in 1980 and graduated in 1985. 6 years of cramming all sorts of medical knowledge into my head. Pre clinical years of anatomy, physiology, pathology etc etc. Clinical years , hours and hours of study of all sorts of disease processes and information. Came out a newly qualified quack at the start of 1986. I had a mass of knowledge in my head. 6 years worth.

Remember clearly my 1st week on the job. Got called to the ward by a nurse who had a problem with a surgical patient with a fever. I raced up there with all the knowledge I could muster. I stammered around for a while going through lists of problems in my mind. What should I do here? Fortunately the nurse, who I know was laughing to herself, put me out of my misery.

All she wanted, as she told me , was for me to write a panadol order on the drug chart. The last thing she wanted me to do was to make any type of decision about what should be done with her patient. She knew, and I soon learned, that I had a lot of knowledge but I knew nothing. It was of great relief to me. I soon realised I could do some paper work and clerking while I started to learn how to be a doctor. I worked for 2 years and then began working and studying for another 7 years to become a specialist. And the further I went the more learnt about the things I didn't know. I learnt more about the nuances of my profession, the variations and things that I couldn't learn just from reading a book or journal. I realised there was always more to learn and understand and that each day these things learned added to my craft.

So here I sit with all that medical knowledge but very little of it directed towards management of football injuries. Still that knowledge allows me to know that when TRS says we can have no idea about how good the management of Elliott's injury has been he is correct. I know it because I deal with medical issues everyday and I know what it takes in general terms to make such a judgement. I also know based on my working experience even though I have knowledge I know nothing about managing a pars defect.

Still I see Shepshal Ed say he has googled articles and read things so he knows Collingwood have managed Elliott "shittily". Ed, TRS tried to explain to you in pretty nice terms that you know nothing. Dr Google just doesn't allow you to understand the nuances of the management of a pars defect and you don't have any real knowledge about his management anyway. Eat some humble pie and understand when a qualified physio who works in the area explains to you why you can't make the judgements you are making they have a bank of knowledge but more importantly "know" the field in a way you can't just by getting into Google. One of the things that you learn as you get experience in any field is what you don't know. It informs all the decisions you make. When TRS tells you you don't know think why that may be.


Sorry for the rant.

TRS and I went further into it via PM. There's another reason I think Collingwood have mismanaged him. But saying it here would be naming a specific person which I didn't want to do. I never claimed to be an expert and openly stated how I formed my opinion. Which mind you, ended up being spot on. Was I probably too harsh in my language relating specifically to what TRS was pissed about? Maybe, but he is hopefully a little clearer on why I said what I said, rightly or wrongly.

I'm well aware I'm not medical expert and have never claimed to be, but let's also not forget, regardless of my Googlefu, don't act like medical malpractice isn't a thing in the real world and there legitimately ARE shitty doctors out there. Even ones who have studied for years to be one. When I sadi Collingwood were mismanaging Jamie, that wasn't specifically aimed at the medicos and maybe I should have been clearer on that. Which is why I brought up the Brisbane thing. The Brisbane situation reeked of the football department strong arming the medicos. Which could be happening with Jamie for all we know.