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In a game where two midfields are evenly matched, Sydney’s ability to win loose balls could be difference
May 26, 2016 8:00pm
DERMOTT BRERETON
Herald Sun
HOW delightful for a game of Friday night football.
Two excellent teams, two excellent forward lines that have both kicked exactly 139 goals a piece so far this season.
And two hard as nails midfields that will be willing to absorb physical punishment to get the ball.
What separates two teams like this on match day?
When they are both playing near the top of their game. When they both have very good players to call on to combat each other, what area of the game does it ultimately come back to?
Is it the gun forwards? Is it a tight backline? Is it pace across the field?
Some or all of the above will play a part in the outcome.
Lets face it, the football world, including rank and file supporters and tipsters, are much more “tooled up” these days with footy knowledge. Everyone is an analyst.
The default position when two teams are very evenly matched should always be from the logical viewpoint.
Our game starts with a neutral action, the ball starts in dispute by virtue of the umpire’s bounce or ball up.
So to kick a goal, you have to get it to your forward line.
The ability of Sydney’s midfielders, including Dan Hannebery, to run all day and night and pick up loose balls could be the difference. Picture: Phil Hillyard
Therefore the team which you think will win the best amount of quality, contested football will give their forwards the greater chance.
If you think that they are both still evenly matched, you need to make a call on which team’s midfielders will maintain the rage for the longest.
For all the statistical data that we can refer to for these two teams over the past nine weeks, nothing will stand out head and shoulders above all else and demand that we make a selection one way or the other.
But what we can do is look at some numbers in a specific area that might give us a feel for how the game will play out if all bring their A-grade game to the match.
It is a very inexact science.
But the one fact that I can marry up with what I have seen in recent games is the following.
Cunnington, Ziebell and Swallow are every bit as good at matching Hannebury, Parker and Josh Kennedy in the middle.
"It is more a feeling for how the game will be played. And between two very evenly matched teams, this game will be a war of attrition."
- Dermott Brereton
Add in Kieren Jack as the equivalent of what Daniel Wells has in terms of input for North and it is virtually a dead heat.
Cunnington is a beast. If in another era, he might have played as a small centre half-forward.
Ziebell is another beast. In this era, he is a warrior that can play for times as a legitimate key forward.
Swallow is not a bird as his name suggests, but rather he is a rabid dog that lives for the contest and attacks tackling like only one or two others in the comp.
Hannebury is all class by foot, but he might also be the toughest player out there on Friday night.
Parker is like a cage fighter. He is all business with a lot of grunt. But when he senses the moment, he goes for the finishing move like very few others.
And Josh Kennedy is like the big kid in the schoolyard that no one could ever get down. He just keeps powering through no matter how many opponents jump on him.
Friday night’s midfield battle will be the closest thing to a street fight that this era will allow.
But if we look back to the North v St Kilda game, North Melbourne eventually won that game through the experience of their mature player’s showing great game craft.
What was a concern though, is that in the last quarter, St Kilda’s midfield were able to run away with the ball from a backline stoppage en masse and North’s midfield could not run the length of the ground with them. It happened twice.
Jack Ziebell’s hard-nosed approach will be crucial against the Swans. Picture: George Salpigtidis
Ben Cunnington is as tough as they come in the midfield. Picture: Michael Klein
On one occasion North was saved by its defenders who eventually repelled the attack. On the other occasion Membrey marked and goaled from the goalsquare.
If I put this knowledge against a stat from the AFL rankings for loose ball gets, a stat which indicates that a midfield can run to the outside and loose ball territory more often than others.
The top four league leaders are Hannebury (57), Jake Lloyd (47), Jack (46) and Parker with 41.
They are all Sydney players that spend most of their time through the midfield.
It is not a foolproof theory. It is more a feeling for how the game will be played. And between two very evenly matched teams, this game will be a war of attrition.
It will literally be a case of last man standing. Or more precisely, running.
May 26, 2016 8:00pm
DERMOTT BRERETON
Herald Sun
HOW delightful for a game of Friday night football.
Two excellent teams, two excellent forward lines that have both kicked exactly 139 goals a piece so far this season.
And two hard as nails midfields that will be willing to absorb physical punishment to get the ball.
What separates two teams like this on match day?
When they are both playing near the top of their game. When they both have very good players to call on to combat each other, what area of the game does it ultimately come back to?
Is it the gun forwards? Is it a tight backline? Is it pace across the field?
Some or all of the above will play a part in the outcome.
Lets face it, the football world, including rank and file supporters and tipsters, are much more “tooled up” these days with footy knowledge. Everyone is an analyst.
The default position when two teams are very evenly matched should always be from the logical viewpoint.
Our game starts with a neutral action, the ball starts in dispute by virtue of the umpire’s bounce or ball up.
So to kick a goal, you have to get it to your forward line.
The ability of Sydney’s midfielders, including Dan Hannebery, to run all day and night and pick up loose balls could be the difference. Picture: Phil Hillyard
Therefore the team which you think will win the best amount of quality, contested football will give their forwards the greater chance.
If you think that they are both still evenly matched, you need to make a call on which team’s midfielders will maintain the rage for the longest.
For all the statistical data that we can refer to for these two teams over the past nine weeks, nothing will stand out head and shoulders above all else and demand that we make a selection one way or the other.
But what we can do is look at some numbers in a specific area that might give us a feel for how the game will play out if all bring their A-grade game to the match.
It is a very inexact science.
But the one fact that I can marry up with what I have seen in recent games is the following.
Cunnington, Ziebell and Swallow are every bit as good at matching Hannebury, Parker and Josh Kennedy in the middle.
- Dermott Brereton
Add in Kieren Jack as the equivalent of what Daniel Wells has in terms of input for North and it is virtually a dead heat.
Cunnington is a beast. If in another era, he might have played as a small centre half-forward.
Ziebell is another beast. In this era, he is a warrior that can play for times as a legitimate key forward.
Swallow is not a bird as his name suggests, but rather he is a rabid dog that lives for the contest and attacks tackling like only one or two others in the comp.
Hannebury is all class by foot, but he might also be the toughest player out there on Friday night.
Parker is like a cage fighter. He is all business with a lot of grunt. But when he senses the moment, he goes for the finishing move like very few others.
And Josh Kennedy is like the big kid in the schoolyard that no one could ever get down. He just keeps powering through no matter how many opponents jump on him.
Friday night’s midfield battle will be the closest thing to a street fight that this era will allow.
But if we look back to the North v St Kilda game, North Melbourne eventually won that game through the experience of their mature player’s showing great game craft.
What was a concern though, is that in the last quarter, St Kilda’s midfield were able to run away with the ball from a backline stoppage en masse and North’s midfield could not run the length of the ground with them. It happened twice.
Jack Ziebell’s hard-nosed approach will be crucial against the Swans. Picture: George Salpigtidis
Ben Cunnington is as tough as they come in the midfield. Picture: Michael Klein
On one occasion North was saved by its defenders who eventually repelled the attack. On the other occasion Membrey marked and goaled from the goalsquare.
If I put this knowledge against a stat from the AFL rankings for loose ball gets, a stat which indicates that a midfield can run to the outside and loose ball territory more often than others.
The top four league leaders are Hannebury (57), Jake Lloyd (47), Jack (46) and Parker with 41.
They are all Sydney players that spend most of their time through the midfield.
It is not a foolproof theory. It is more a feeling for how the game will be played. And between two very evenly matched teams, this game will be a war of attrition.
It will literally be a case of last man standing. Or more precisely, running.
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In a game where two midfields are evenly matched, Sydney’s ability to win loose balls could be difference
May 26, 2016 8:00pm
DERMOTT BRERETON
Herald Sun
...
So to kick a goal, you have to get it to your forward line.
...
Got to give it to him, really knows his stuff...
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"Gibson wins Friday Night blockbuster for North Melbourne"
I wouldn't wipe my arse on their stats.
Anyway, he's a gun. Will likely get AA in his second year of footy, which will be some achievement.
Last year we played him predominantly as a forward to keep him away from the rough and tumble of midfield. Not so this year, he can play anywhere, and does. Will be an interesting match up, whoever goes to him.
That was truly cringeworthy last week.
AA, are you serious?
You don't get AA for being one of the best young talents in the game.
As Dennis Commetti said last week, he isn't a good young player, he's just a GOOD player.
It's understandable that you'd be sceptical, you've probably seen hardly any full Swans games. We hardly see any NORTH games on free to air up here, so I'd be struggling to tell you who's in form for you except Goldstein, Waite and probably Ziebull.
Mark my words though, if he keeps to the standard he's been playing at so far, he will be at the very least shortlisted, but I think he will make AA. We will see.
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shintemaster
Brownlow Medallist
In other random news, witnesses have reported the spontaneous explosion of an individual's head overnight. Accounts from the scene report a strange gurgling sound from his throat prior. One neighbour - who did not wish to be named - described it as "LDKSGJ NNDdasfdlke drop Gibbo'ssssssss"
shintemaster
Brownlow Medallist
That's all fine. Good doesn't generally get you AA selection though.
He said it in that Dennis kind of way, when you know he means gooooooooood. Like when Brooce says delicious, but without the sexual overtones.
Only Forwards
Just you wait and see
Well if Denis said it the it shall come to pass.
For he is the all seeing all knowing commentator.
Such a man would never be wrong or say inane bullshit to fill the airways.
For he is the all seeing all knowing commentator.
Such a man would never be wrong or say inane bullshit to fill the airways.
shintemaster
Brownlow Medallist
He is a good player, but from what I've seen of the current state of commentary their endorsement isn't something I'd be hanging my hat on. They rate 10secs of flash over 120mins of gut burning work (not saying that's Heeney BTW).
I'm not going to argue with you that he is a good player, because he is. Commetti was right with what he said.
But your AA comment is crazy, but as you admit to not seeing many games other than Syd games it's understandable how you can get it wrong.
Let's look at Ziebell who plays a similar role:
He averages more disposals, wins more contested footy, wins more uncontested footy, lays more tackles, has more rebound 50's, has more inside 50's.
When it comes to AA I don't have Ziebell in but he has more claims on it than Heeney, as do many others around the comp.
GarnerSmash
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Small ground, forward pressure is key, ground balls are key hence Nahas over Wood. It isn't about offensive attributes but what the role requires and despite what folk on here are sayimg Nahas plays this defensive forward role better than Mase.
Wood is clearly a better footballer but we play a method that we think will deliver a result and as a consequence Wood misses.
Wood is clearly a better footballer but we play a method that we think will deliver a result and as a consequence Wood misses.
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If Higgins didnt make AA last season then Heeney will only get there based on media hyperbole.
s**t, Higgo was down on last year before he got injured and was still as influential Heeney this year.
s**t, Higgo was down on last year before he got injured and was still as influential Heeney this year.
Only Forwards
Just you wait and see
I struggle to understand how this is not clear as day to people.
If any of Higgins, Garner, or Turner were fit and available they would be in the side over Robbie.
blackshadow
Hall of Famer
In a game where two midfields are evenly matched, Sydney’s ability to win loose balls could be difference
May 26, 2016 8:00pm
DERMOTT BRERETON
Herald Sun
HOW delightful for a game of Friday night football.
Two excellent teams, two excellent forward lines that have both kicked exactly 139 goals a piece so far this season.
And two hard as nails midfields that will be willing to absorb physical punishment to get the ball.
What separates two teams like this on match day?
When they are both playing near the top of their game. When they both have very good players to call on to combat each other, what area of the game does it ultimately come back to?
Is it the gun forwards? Is it a tight backline? Is it pace across the field?
Some or all of the above will play a part in the outcome.
Lets face it, the football world, including rank and file supporters and tipsters, are much more “tooled up” these days with footy knowledge. Everyone is an analyst.
The default position when two teams are very evenly matched should always be from the logical viewpoint.
Our game starts with a neutral action, the ball starts in dispute by virtue of the umpire’s bounce or ball up.
So to kick a goal, you have to get it to your forward line.
The ability of Sydney’s midfielders, including Dan Hannebery, to run all day and night and pick up loose balls could be the difference. Picture: Phil Hillyard
Therefore the team which you think will win the best amount of quality, contested football will give their forwards the greater chance.
If you think that they are both still evenly matched, you need to make a call on which team’s midfielders will maintain the rage for the longest.
For all the statistical data that we can refer to for these two teams over the past nine weeks, nothing will stand out head and shoulders above all else and demand that we make a selection one way or the other.
But what we can do is look at some numbers in a specific area that might give us a feel for how the game will play out if all bring their A-grade game to the match.
It is a very inexact science.
But the one fact that I can marry up with what I have seen in recent games is the following.
Cunnington, Ziebell and Swallow are every bit as good at matching Hannebury, Parker and Josh Kennedy in the middle.
"It is more a feeling for how the game will be played. And between two very evenly matched teams, this game will be a war of attrition."
- Dermott Brereton
Add in Kieren Jack as the equivalent of what Daniel Wells has in terms of input for North and it is virtually a dead heat.
Cunnington is a beast. If in another era, he might have played as a small centre half-forward.
Ziebell is another beast. In this era, he is a warrior that can play for times as a legitimate key forward.
Swallow is not a bird as his name suggests, but rather he is a rabid dog that lives for the contest and attacks tackling like only one or two others in the comp.
Hannebury is all class by foot, but he might also be the toughest player out there on Friday night.
Parker is like a cage fighter. He is all business with a lot of grunt. But when he senses the moment, he goes for the finishing move like very few others.
And Josh Kennedy is like the big kid in the schoolyard that no one could ever get down. He just keeps powering through no matter how many opponents jump on him.
Friday night’s midfield battle will be the closest thing to a street fight that this era will allow.
But if we look back to the North v St Kilda game, North Melbourne eventually won that game through the experience of their mature player’s showing great game craft.
What was a concern though, is that in the last quarter, St Kilda’s midfield were able to run away with the ball from a backline stoppage en masse and North’s midfield could not run the length of the ground with them. It happened twice.
Jack Ziebell’s hard-nosed approach will be crucial against the Swans. Picture: George Salpigtidis
Ben Cunnington is as tough as they come in the midfield. Picture: Michael Klein
On one occasion North was saved by its defenders who eventually repelled the attack. On the other occasion Membrey marked and goaled from the goalsquare.
If I put this knowledge against a stat from the AFL rankings for loose ball gets, a stat which indicates that a midfield can run to the outside and loose ball territory more often than others.
The top four league leaders are Hannebury (57), Jake Lloyd (47), Jack (46) and Parker with 41.
They are all Sydney players that spend most of their time through the midfield.
It is not a foolproof theory. It is more a feeling for how the game will be played. And between two very evenly matched teams, this game will be a war of attrition.
It will literally be a case of last man standing. Or more precisely, running.
I love Derm when he writes, he is genuinely one of the better analysts out there. Is generally quite un-bias when he puts pen to paper.
Such a shame that when he commentates he loves the sound of his own voice.
Higgins yes, Garner maybe, Turner no.
I love Heeney and think he will be a gun. He is already displaying consistency of someone who will reach the a-grade level in the coming seasons. But calling him AA is a bit of a reach.
All these half forwards/forward pockets are statistically on par or better than Henney at this stage of the season:Steve Johnson, Luke Bruest, Tom Lynch (Adelaide), Dayne Zorko, Alex Fasolo, Eddie Betts, Jake Stringer, Steven Motlop, Brent Harvey and hell Even Aaron Young from Port.
Then you also have Michael Walters and Cyril Rioli who are also around the mark in terms of output.
Not only that is he will be competiting with a number of goal kicking midfielders who they put on the half forward flank every year. Guys like Parker, Hannabury, Ziebell, Aaron Hall, Toby Greene and Dustin Martin.
I rate him, but just don't see it happening myself.
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Do we assign a hard tag this week or just go head to head?
I think I'd like Gibbo to stick close with Hannebury to limit his damage - and try and hurt the other way when we have it.
Wouldn't bother with Kennedy as he's too good in close.
I think I'd like Gibbo to stick close with Hannebury to limit his damage - and try and hurt the other way when we have it.
Wouldn't bother with Kennedy as he's too good in close.
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