List Mgmt. What do we do in the off season re. our list?

[John_Proctor]

Not sure where to post this but have been thinking about our #1 key defender problem.

reckon that we should play hipwood down there next season. We aren't making finals anyway so nothing to lose on that front, lots of young key position players have cut their teeth at the opposite end of the ground for a season (Koschitzke, roughy, Cameron), a chance to play on the best and maybe use it as a forward in future seasons.

Watching his junior highlights was very reminiscent of Andrews, and this year he's shown he's got that extra physicality in the contest than Andrews and some of the other young keys going arounds. It's also been discussed on this board that freeman and close are knocking on the door up forward.

Team as follows:
Fb: Gardiner hipwood Harwood
Hb: Cutler Andrews Mayes
Mid: Rich Rockliff Hanley
Hf: Zorko close Christensen
Ff: Taylor schache walker
Fol: Martin beams Robinson
Int: Mcstay Mathieson Bastinac Bewick

Rest: bell, Keays, lester, Janson, beams, Robertson, Clayton, paparone, Dawson, McGrath, freeman, skinner, (smith, pick 2, pick 20, pick 28, Allison)

Just think it seems like a more balanced team. And avoids potential of us recruiting/relying on a dud KPD recruited in desperation adding nothing to the list long term.

 

[BigCat2]

I can see your logic, but Hipwood is too precious a talent to potentially become "Zac Dawson'ed" through having to punch above his weight division. He can become a very useful attacking key defender - I like his aggression and willingness to back himself - but as a key forward he could potentially be very unique and our star power in the team.

If we can't entice a solid key defender to come to us, then a mature state league type might do the job. Kyle Hartigan, Marcus Adams, Jack Frost, Kyle Cheney, Michael Hartley etc have all been through the state league program before being selected. While they have played with varying degrees of success so far, they can provide good value without over spending at the trade table or salary wise. It is easier to pick up a mature key defender, especially if your requirement is they just need to do a negating job and not too fussed about their attacking role.

 

[POBT]

I think the only reason to play Hipwood as a defender is if things aren't working out for him up forward. For example, if he can't sort his goal kicking out and it starts to impact the rest of his game, it might be worthwhile sending him into defence.

But quality KPFs are so hard to find. I don't think you'd willingly sacrifice one to fill a hole elsewhere.

 

[Dalions]

Definitely think Hippy is best to stay forward at this stage. If he can start taking a couple more of those flying grabs and fix up his goal kicking he is very exciting. And will only get better with development. A bit more size but maintain his agility. POTENTIAL!!!!.

 

[M Malice]

IMO there must be something to the Rocky and Pearce rumors, the situation needs to be sorted by the trade period in early october. David Noble would be the one to make a decision in conjunction with any current or past assistants. if it was decided the situation was beyond repair and that the move on option was the path to go down i would take these offers if they were on the table.

Rocky to the suns for pick 4. Pearce to the giants for pick 15 and Tim Mohr.

the experience going out could be mitigated with the trading in of some FA eg. Nathan & Mitch Brown, Jimmy Bartel, Corey Enright, Tom Lonergan, Scott Thompson or trades eg. Michael Barlow, Nathan Vardy, Trent MacKenzie, Reece Conca, Nathan Hrovat to name a few.

if we were to move Rocky and Pearce on we would still have plenty of experience in the midfield area of our team ie. Zorko, D.Beams, Rich, Robinson, Christensen, Bastinac, it may be an opportunity to get some experience/guiding hands in where we really need it at each end of the ground.

out- Pearce Hanley, Tom Rockliff.

in- 3 of the names above. maybe the Brown brothers and Nathan Hrovat.

 

[winged1]

To play Hipwood KPD at this point is too big an ask on a skinny kid, plus he and schache could compliment each other next year.

 

[Big Sauce 21]

IMO there must be something to the Rocky and Pearce rumors, the situation needs to be sorted by the trade period in early october. David Noble would be the one to make a decision in conjunction with any current or past assistants. if it was decided the situation was beyond repair and that the move on option was the path to go down i would take these offers if they were on the table.

Rocky to the suns for pick 4. Pearce to the giants for pick 15 and Tim Mohr.

the experience going out could be mitigated with the trading in of some FA eg. Nathan & Mitch Brown, Jimmy Bartel, Corey Enright, Tom Lonergan, Scott Thompson or trades eg. Michael Barlow, Nathan Vardy, Trent MacKenzie, Reece Conca, Nathan Hrovat to name a few.

if we were to move Rocky and Pearce on we would still have plenty of experience in the midfield area of our team ie. Zorko, D.Beams, Rich, Robinson, Christensen, Bastinac, it may be an opportunity to get some experience/guiding hands in where we really need it at each end of the ground.

out- Pearce Hanley, Tom Rockliff.

in- 3 of the names above. maybe the Brown brothers and Nathan Hrovat.

Is that because they're not holding everyone's hands in NZ ?

 

[M Malice]

Is that because they're not holding everyone's hands in NZ ?

no nothing to do with that, i place no weight on that at all. it is more the smoke that has been generated here and in the MSM over the last few months. in all my posts on this issue i make it clear that it is IF the rumors have some validity that i would go down the trade out path.

all purely hypothetical and some daydreaming on my part while sitting around waiting for something to happen re our list and coaching situation. i really get into the trade/FA/draft talk at this time of the year, this is all just part of it.

* i don't think my input will have much influence on what happens in the end.

* translation- me= zero influence.

 

[John_Proctor]

think you're all being a bit close minded about the Hipwood idea. agree that he might be 'too light' at this point to be #1 KPD but compared to Andrews he is a more physical player, compared to Gardiner/McStay/Hammer/Paparone he has the height to compete with those biggest forwards and he has the engine/closing speed etc as well to get the job done. Unlike our other options on our own list he also played (more) as a defender than forward in Juniors from my understanding where as Close and Walker are forwards. Heaps of young players are thrown all over the park to learn the game and the three I noted are career KPF's who've went back literally for 1 season very early in their careers, but its a common occurrence for players of all positions.

 

[jackess]

I wouldn't be totally against playing Hipwood down back but he really shouldn't be on the key forwards until he does bulk up.

 

[dlanod]

think you're all being a bit close minded about the Hipwood idea. agree that he might be 'too light' at this point to be #1 KPD but compared to Andrews he is a more physical player, compared to Gardiner/McStay/Hammer/Paparone he has the height to compete with those biggest forwards and he has the engine/closing speed etc as well to get the job done. Unlike our other options on our own list he also played (more) as a defender than forward in Juniors from my understanding where as Close and Walker are forwards. Heaps of young players are thrown all over the park to learn the game and the three I noted are career KPF's who've went back literally for 1 season very early in their careers, but its a common occurrence for players of all positions.

Would you rather have Rance or Buddy? Or Leppa v Brown?

Both are or were arguably the best at their position. However a top KPF can win you a game off their own boot. There's only so much a top KPD can do. If you've got someone who can play both positions, you have to give them every chance to succeed at the KPF role first because it is simply more valuable to the team.

 

[POBT]

think you're all being a bit close minded about the Hipwood idea.

Disagreeing with you doesn't make someone close minded. That's actually a bit insulting.

Besides, it is not exactly a new notion - rewind a few months and more than a few people had Hipwood as a long term defender. It is hardly something people are going to dismiss without consideration.

 

[a mayes ing]

think you're all being a bit close minded about the Hipwood idea. agree that he might be 'too light' at this point to be #1 KPD but compared to Andrews he is a more physical player, compared to Gardiner/McStay/Hammer/Paparone he has the height to compete with those biggest forwards and he has the engine/closing speed etc as well to get the job done. Unlike our other options on our own list he also played (more) as a defender than forward in Juniors from my understanding where as Close and Walker are forwards. Heaps of young players are thrown all over the park to learn the game and the three I noted are career KPF's who've went back literally for 1 season very early in their careers, but its a common occurrence for players of all positions.

It doesn't make sense, yes he would have good closing speed, but if it was bombed high on the top of their heads, Hipwood is going to be outmuscled every time. Being a forward mitigates that somewhat as he can mark it on the lead. Having a 19yo play against seasoned 25+ year olds who are faster and stronger is unfair.

 

[M Malice]

with the news of JOM wanting to go to the hawks and possibly Tom Mitchell, the old model of going down the normal draft path ie. trade in a couple of top 20 picks for 3-4 years to rebuild is not going to cut it IMO.

we need to be bold and aggressive this off season and get in as many top end talents as we can, it that means trading out Rocky &/or Pearce and bundling some lower picks for a trade up option go for it.

if we also get a top end PP we could really set ourselves up for a run at it in 3-5 years.

Schache, Hipwood, Andrews, Keays, Matheison, Cutler, Mayes, + McCluggage, Ainsworth, McGrath, Simpkin- now were talking, that is half an elite side prospect in the future.

then we just need players like Dawson, Gardner, McStay, Skinner, Freeman to step up, there could be light at the end of this dark tunnel if we are bold.

 

[winged1]

with the news of JOM wanting to go to the hawks and possibly Tom Mitchell, the old model of going down the normal draft path ie. trade in a couple of top 20 picks for 3-4 years to rebuild is not going to cut it IMO.

we need to be bold and aggressive this off season and get in as many top end talents as we can, it that means trading out Rocky &/or Pearce and bundling some lower picks for a trade up option go for it.

if we also get a top end PP we could really set ourselves up for a run at it in 3-5 years.

Schache, Hipwood, Andrews, Keays, Matheison, Cutler, Mayes, + McCluggage, Ainsworth, McGrath, Simpkin- now were talking, that is half an elite side prospect in the future.

then we just need players like Dawson, Gardner, McStay, Skinner, Freeman to step up, there could be light at the end of this dark tunnel if we are bold.

Still need some experienced, professional talent to guide the kids for a year or two.

 

[Dalions]

with the news of JOM wanting to go to the hawks and possibly Tom Mitchell, the old model of going down the normal draft path ie. trade in a couple of top 20 picks for 3-4 years to rebuild is not going to cut it IMO.

we need to be bold and aggressive this off season and get in as many top end talents as we can, it that means trading out Rocky &/or Pearce and bundling some lower picks for a trade up option go for it.

if we also get a top end PP we could really set ourselves up for a run at it in 3-5 years.

Schache, Hipwood, Andrews, Keays, Matheison, Cutler, Mayes, + McCluggage, Ainsworth, McGrath, Simpkin- now were talking, that is half an elite side prospect in the future.

then we just need players like Dawson, Gardner, McStay, Skinner, Freeman to step up, there could be light at the end of this dark tunnel if we are bold.

Completely and Utterley agree.

 

[John_Proctor]

Would you rather have Rance or Buddy? Or Leppa v Brown?

Both are or were arguably the best at their position. However a top KPF can win you a game off their own boot. There's only so much a top KPD can do. If you've got someone who can play both positions, you have to give them every chance to succeed at the KPF role first because it is simply more valuable to the team.

if you had buddy or brown already but nothing in defence you'd probably prefer Rance or Leppa.

Many posts have identified we now have depth at KPF including a one or two (misguided in my mind) suggestions we should trade one of them (most commonly Freeman). Almost every poster on this board has identified the need for a KPD to come in this offseason.

I.e. we have a surplus at one end and a deficit at the other end. Seems logical to consider shifting the one KPF on our list who played the majority of his junior career as a KPD to the backline to shore up that problem area (unless we happen to recruit players who are unlikely to come like McKenzie or Brown).

 

[Bucking Beads]

Hipwood has looked pretty good up forward at this early stage. Needs to improve the goal kicking but I think he is best suited up forward at the moment. I'd let him develop there for now but if it isn't working we can always move him down back.

 

[dlanod]

if you had buddy or brown already but nothing in defence you'd probably prefer Rance or Leppa.

Many posts have identified we now have depth at KPF including a one or two (misguided in my mind) suggestions we should trade one of them (most commonly Freeman). Almost every poster on this board has identified the need for a KPD to come in this offseason.

I.e. we have a surplus at one end and a deficit at the other end. Seems logical to consider shifting the one KPF on our list who played the majority of his junior career as a KPD to the backline to shore up that problem area (unless we happen to recruit players who are unlikely to come like McKenzie or Brown).

I don't think we have either currently. If it does end up that we have a surplus, great, move him back. At the moment we have a couple of first year guys and a couple of guys that can never get on the park, either of which have had about one good game apiece. Similarly, why would you move one that looks one of the more promising instead of one of the ones that, well, not so much?

 

[Forward We Go]

if you had buddy or brown already but nothing in defence you'd probably prefer Rance or Leppa.

Many posts have identified we now have depth at KPF including a one or two (misguided in my mind) suggestions we should trade one of them (most commonly Freeman). Almost every poster on this board has identified the need for a KPD to come in this offseason.

I.e. we have a surplus at one end and a deficit at the other end. Seems logical to consider shifting the one KPF on our list who played the majority of his junior career as a KPD to the backline to shore up that problem area (unless we happen to recruit players who are unlikely to come like McKenzie or Brown).

Hipwood played 90% of his junior footy as a striker in soccer or on the wing in afl. It was only in the u18's carnival and a handful of NEAFL games that he played down back.
That doesn't mean you rule him out of playing down back in 2017. He is versatile enough to play wherever he is needed.

 

[M Malice]

Still need some experienced, professional talent to guide the kids for a year or two.

FA the Brown brothers would be good.

another thing i don't think we are ever going to be able to do is tempt young guns to come north to us ah la Prestia (tigers), JOM (hawks), Trealor (magpies), Dixon (port), Docherty (blues). i can not imagine a player like Jake Stringer, Josh Kelly or Jesse Hogan moving to us in the foreseeable future.

we are more a 2nd chance saloon in the main.

 

[spotthedog1]

with the news of JOM wanting to go to the hawks and possibly Tom Mitchell, the old model of going down the normal draft path ie. trade in a couple of top 20 picks for 3-4 years to rebuild is not going to cut it IMO.

we need to be bold and aggressive this off season and get in as many top end talents as we can, it that means trading out Rocky &/or Pearce and bundling some lower picks for a trade up option go for it.

if we also get a top end PP we could really set ourselves up for a run at it in 3-5 years.

Schache, Hipwood, Andrews, Keays, Matheison, Cutler, Mayes, + McCluggage, Ainsworth, McGrath, Simpkin- now were talking, that is half an elite side prospect in the future.

then we just need players like Dawson, Gardner, McStay, Skinner, Freeman to step up, there could be light at the end of this dark tunnel if we are bold.

Problem is that we'd be selling out Hanley and Rocky is their lowest value. Makes no sense. Selling them next year, after another season to recover some form, would likely net us higher compensation. Just no sense to sell them now. Even if they don't improve, they wouldn't go down much more - particularly Hanley.

 

[chopperduck]

Rocky would be FA next year, meaning best we could get in compensation is 1 draft pick after our first, and really it would likely be the next band down and be an end of first round pick. So i dont think we would get more value next year than this year.

 

[Forward We Go]

Why hasn't Josh Schache signed past 2017 while most other players/new draftee's (other than Keays) have? For me, he is probably the most important player on our list that needs to be secured over the "off season". At least another 2 more years. Keays we can replace but Schache is significantly more important for our future development.

 

[WA Lion]

Why hasn't Josh Schache signed past 2017 while most other players/new draftee's (other than Keays) have? For me, he is probably the most important player on our list that needs to be secured over the "off season". At least another 2 more years. Keays we can replace but Schache is significantly more important for our future development.

I remember the days when draftees wouldn't re-sign until late in their 2nd year and nobody would bat an eyelid. Now thanks to the GH5 and Prince Aish there is constant paranoia.

I agree Schache is critical to our future and would be devastated if he left, but there is still plenty of time!