Mega Thread Port Forum 'General AFL Talk' Thread Part 2

[CharlieKelly]

We need a funny banner writer

Tribes?

 

[philreich]

I've just travelled to the alternate universe where that happened and guess what? Everyone concentrates on us and that game again, a lot! I'm glad to be back, where it's fading slowly into the past.

And many of those people who concentrate on us are Crows fans. Their mob of underachievers can't even make a grand final, let alone lose one......

 

[finbarr]

Neil Kearney, go away.

 

[finbarr]

You really do get the feeling the Bulldogs are going to get absolutely thrashed.

 

[JohnHinckleyJr]

Man these supporters are the definition of campaigners

 

[Lagooner]

I've just travelled to the alternate universe where that happened and guess what? Everyone concentrates on us and that game again, a lot! I'm glad to be back, where it's fading slowly into the past.

Odd choice. If you can travel to alternate universes why didn't you go to the one where we win the game instead?!

 

[JohnHinckleyJr]

Alipate didn't really retire criss cross

 

[Powerstufff]

Odd choice. If you can travel to alternate universes why didn't you go to the one where we win the game instead?!

Actually I live there now. I just pop back here for BigFooty, no internet in my new locale.

 

[Lagooner]

Actually I live there now. I just pop back here for BigFooty, no internet in my new locale.

Sounds like paradise.

 

[Duck Farmer]

I've just travelled to the alternate universe where that happened and guess what? Everyone concentrates on us and that game again, a lot! I'm glad to be back, where it's fading slowly into the past.

No need to travel to an alternate universe. We are a Top 4 club for home attendances and still can't shake the tarp jokes.

 

[Dylan8]

Why?
(Will you miss)

work

 

[Lagooner]

Lol they just did a stats breakdown of Season 2016 and the Crers came out on top for Twitter followers.

#instabul

 

[Byrons Firen]

Lol they just did a stats breakdown of Season 2016 and the Crers came out on top for Twitter followers.

#instabul

Twits

 

[John the Butcher]

Dennis Cometti says he's only retired from travelling and not commentary; fingers crossed he does the perth games!

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

The Fin Review has a story on the Bulldogs and how they lobbied Howard to help fund half of a $17mil facilities redevelopment in 2004. The Bulldogs and Geelong got in before the AFL arranged massive facilities upgrade in June 2006 to all other 8 Vic clubs. I've written about it before but the cut and paste from page 38 the 2006 AFL annual reports says;

AFL club facilities
The AFL committed $13.3 million to a $55 million fund with the Victorian Government, local councils and AFL clubs to inject new life into former suburban AFL grounds and revitalise them as focal points for their local communities. The Victorian Premier Steve Bracks announced the Government would contribute $14 million to the Victorian AFL club facilities funding program. AFL clubs to benefit from the program will include Richmond (Punt Road Oval), Carlton (MC Labour Park), St Kilda (Moorabbin Reserve), Essendon (Windy Hill), Hawthorn (Waverley Park) and the Kangaroos (Arden Street Oval). Victoria Park, the former home of Collingwood, will also be renovated and retained for use as a training venue for VFL umpires and as a ground for TAC Cup matches. Funding for the program includes contributions from the following:
■ Victorian Government $17 million
■ AFL $13.3 million
■ Local councils $17.8 million
■ Clubs $20.9 million
■ TOTAL $69 million
The AFL and the Victorian Government have also contributed to the $26 million upgrade to Skilled Stadium at Geelong and the $17 million redevelopment of Whitten Oval.

The Fin review story is about more than Howard's contribution but building the massive new facility allowed for the Bulldogs to expand into business ventures which brought in new revenue streams, linking up with more local community groups and local businesses and with Victoria University.

Howard's Battlers

Former prime minister John Howard, a Sydneysider known as a cricket tragic and St George rugby league fan, is an unlikely name to crop up when discussing the most important people in the history of AFL club Western Bulldogs.Countless other names come to mind: Peter Gordon, a well-known Melbourne lawyer who helped save an insolvent club from a merger with Fitzroy in 1989, his predecessor David Smorgon and director Susan Alberti have poured in millions. Players such as Chris Grant, Doug Hawkins and legends like Ted Whitten and Charlie Sutton have stayed loyal to the Bulldogs.

But an $8 million funding package provided by the Howard government, with the personal imprimatur of the then PM, in 2004, also played a vital part in turning around a downtrodden club.
.....
This is a far cry from 2004 when the team was training at a dilapidated Whitten Oval (formerly the Western Oval), a nasty ground that was "tinea infected and rat infested" according to ex-chief executive Campbell Rose, as well as being heavily in debt and losing millions every season. Rose, who now heads the VicTrack state government authority and is the longest-serving Bulldogs chief executive having worked at the club from 2002 to 2010, tells AFR Weekend about the former PM's role in the Bulldogs' turnaround.

With the Whitten Oval falling apart around them Rose hatched a plan for a huge revamp, without which the club was probably going to eventually die as fans and sponsors lost the faith. His vision was for space that would be shared with nearby Victoria University, non-profit organisations and the local community.

How CEO Campbell Rose approached Howard and used the close polls for the 2004 elections as the lever.

He went directly to the Prime Minister, with the help of then chief of staff Arthur Sinodinos and media manager Tony O'Leary, reportedly a fanatical Bulldogs supporter, to make his case for federal government funding during the 2004 election campaign.
.....
Rose sent ahead his 38-page document and had a direct meeting with the PM and his pitch worked. Howard agreed to a funding package which was announced during the campaign that started an unstoppable chain reaction. Ironically Whitten Oval sat in the safe Labor seat of Gellibrand. Howard doubtless saw an opportunity to appeal to his trademark "battler" voters. (Labor's Nicola Roxon was re-elected to the seat, despite a 5.4 per cent swing to the Liberals, and Howard beat Mark Latham with a 1.8 per cent swing.)

Rose is blunt, unless Howard decided to spread the emerging largess from the mining boom the story woyld be very different.

"Without John Howard the club would not be in a position where it is today, playing in a grand final," Rose explains. "He is a man of the people and the Bulldogs are the club of the people. He could see the vision we had for the community.

"So we convinced Mr Howard to put in $8 million, as he was facing the election of his life as Prime Minsters do when they go to the polls. Here was a Liberal blue-blood putting money into Labor heartland in Melbourne's west."

Then Bracks state government and the local council joins in.

The federal government funding led premier Steve Bracks to stump up as well, followed by the AFL. "That was made in an environment in which there was a lack of belief in the club by them," Rose says, adding that the league was considering shipping the Bulldogs off to the Gold Coast or Western Sydney.

The local Maribyrnong council then pledged funds and Victoria University signed up as a tenant and money was also raised from the John T Reid Charitable Foundation, the Myer Foundation and wealthy individuals such as Bulldogs director Susan Alberti and Smorgon, who would serve as president between 1996 and 2012.

And the $17m project turns into a $32.5mil project

In total $32.5 million was found to pay for a revamp that now includes an elite training facility for Bulldogs players and staff, a community sports hall, function facilities, office space for charities and other non-government organisations, Victoria University, a not-for-profit childcare centre and public cafe.

It means that, like the thriving suburb around it, the Whitten Oval has undergone quite a facelift, though Howard quietly and graciously knocked back Rose's offer to name the Bulldogs Hall of Fame after him.

http://www.afr.com/business/sport/h...e-aid-of-the-western-bulldogs-20160928-grq649

I'm not sure if the $32.5mil includes the pokie machine business when the duopoly in Victoria was split up in May 2010 - The Bulldogs have finished up with 55 machines, which the club purchased at an average cost of $62,000 each, as the facility was completed in late 2010.

I have been meaning to write a new big thread about Mega Facilities becoming the new arms race in the AFL and the things that spring off from them and new opportunities that come with them. Hawthorn and West Coast are building $60m facilities, Freo going into partnership at Cockburn with the council and Curtain University and having full access to a $109m facility. Geelong keep taking advantage of upgrades at Kardinia Park but are looking at a training facility away from the ground that might cost up to $20m. There are others. I collected about 100 pages of info but never got around to post it. I might need some help from Matchu who has done stuff on Gold Coast's new facilities as part of the Comm Games facilities development and GWS.

At some point we have to find some funds to join in new arms race. maybe the China venture will be a significant part of it as we attract Chinese businesses coming to Oz to Port. It looks like linking in with Universities and health businesses and setting up mini campuses similar to US college sports set up will be the way of the future.

 

[bomberclifford]

Fun fact: Port has lost more Grand Finals than it has won.

2007 is a record we hold, unfortunately, but it doesn't really mean anything anymore. It did at the time and our response as a club was lacking IMO, but as for our historical record, 2007 goes in the Runner Up column.

 

[Powerstufff]

.... At some point we have to find some funds to join in new arms race ....

Peter Gordon on Open Mike the other night talked of this sort of stuff, albeit their financial glass isn't full and there are a coterie of well off Doggies' fans (including himself) still bankrolling the club. But at least they've plugged obvious holes like lack of modern facilities and now have the ability to pay the full salary cap. But for any club the effort put into accruing funds becomes a matter of diminishing returns, the glass can only get so full. We've been able to put money into the our football department in recent years and the 'soft cap' now limits that. Given our mighty $200,000 profit last year where would we put extra funds?

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

Peter Gordon on Open Mike the other night talked of this sort of stuff, albeit their financial glass isn't full and there are a coterie of well off Doggies' fans (including himself) still bankrolling the club. But at least they've plugged obvious holes like lack of modern facilities and now have the ability to pay the full salary cap. But for any club the effort put into accruing funds becomes a matter of diminishing returns, the glass can only get so full. We've been able to put money into the our football department in recent years and the 'soft cap' now limits that. Given our mighty $200,000 profit last year where would we put extra funds?

China and all its arms legs and tentacles is where we make more and then thats when we spend more on facilities.

 

[Portology]

Anyone else pick up on Hodge on the pre-grand final show talking about how to beat Bontempelli... "be careful with your body contact on him, unless you come in late". Hahaha... err, seriously?

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

Fun fact: Port has lost more Grand Finals than it has won.

2007 is a record we hold, unfortunately, but it doesn't really mean anything anymore. It did at the time and our response as a club was lacking IMO, but as for our historical record, 2007 goes in the Runner Up column.

Are you talking AFL + SANFL?? If so be careful because we finished 2nd a few times as well as won the flag and there were no grand finals. The first regular GF was 1898. See

https://web.archive.org/web/20100615214830/http://fullpointsfooty.net/sanfl_part_1.htm

We won 20 GFs at Adelaide oval and won the league 3 times when there were no GFs in 1884, 1890 and 1897, we won 13 GF's at Footy Park and 1 at the MCG.

We finished 2nd with no GF's in 1883, 1888, 1891, 1892 and need a "grand final" game in 1889 to separate us from Norwood as we both won the same number of games and lost that year and needed a decider game.

We lost 25 GF's at AO
http://australianfootball.com/articles/view/Adelaide+Oval+Grand+Finals+1898-1973/339
1898 South Adelaide 8.8 d Port Adelaide 4.8 7,000
1901 Norwood 4.9 d Port Adelaide 4.5 6,500
1904† Norwood 9.8 d Port Adelaide 8.10 11,000
1905 North Adelaide 6.8 d Port Adelaide 1.6 10,500
1911 West Adelaide 7.9 d Port Adelaide 6.10 19,000
1912 West Adelaide 6.10 d Port Adelaide 5.2 28,500
1915 Sturt 6.10 d Port Adelaide 4.10 13,000
1925 Norwood 8.4 d West Torrens 7.9 37,750
1926 Sturt 9.10 d North Adelaide 8.10 30,000
1927 West Adelaide 10.11 d North Adelaide 8.10 33,222
1929 Norwood 16.14 d Port Adelaide 10.9 35,504
1930 North Adelaide 9.13 d Port Adelaide 9.9 23,609
1931 North Adelaide 17.13 d Sturt 11.11 34,202
1934 Glenelg 18.15 d Port Adelaide 16.18 30,045
1935 South Adelaide 15.9 d Port Adelaide 13.13 26,496
1938 South Adelaide 23.14 d Port Adelaide 15.16 33,364
1945 West Torrens 15.25 d Port Adelaide 15.12 47,500
1946 Norwood 13.14 d Port Adelaide 9.10 53,473
1953 West Torrens 9.13 d Port Adelaide 8.12 42,949
1964 South Adelaide 9.15 d Port Adelaide 5.12 56,353
1966 Sturt 16.16 d Port Adelaide 8.8 59,417
1967 Sturt 13.10 d Port Adelaide 10.17 58,849
1968 Sturt 12.18 d Port Adelaide 9.9 57,811
1971 North Adelaide 10.19 d Port Adelaide 9.5 52,228
1972 North Adelaide 19.14 d Port Adelaide 10.12 55,709

We lost 1976, 1984 and 1997 at Footy Park.

So I make we have won 20+13+1 = 34 vs lost 25+3+1 = 29 with a good argument that you add 1889 to make it 30.

 

[bomberclifford]

Are you talking AFL + SANFL?? If so be careful because we finished 2nd a few times as well as won the flag and there were no grand finals. The first regular GF was 1898. See

https://web.archive.org/web/20100615214830/http://fullpointsfooty.net/sanfl_part_1.htm

We won 20 GFs at Adelaide oval and won the league 3 times when there were no GFs in 1884, 1890 and 1897, we won 13 GF's at Footy Park and 1 at the MCG.

We finished 2nd with no GF's in 1883, 1888, 1891, 1892 and need a "grand final" game in 1889 to separate us from Norwood as we both won the same number of games and lost that year and needed a decider game.

We lost 25 GF's at AO
http://australianfootball.com/articles/view/Adelaide+Oval+Grand+Finals+1898-1973/339
1898 South Adelaide 8.8 d Port Adelaide 4.8 7,000
1901 Norwood 4.9 d Port Adelaide 4.5 6,500
1904† Norwood 9.8 d Port Adelaide 8.10 11,000
1905 North Adelaide 6.8 d Port Adelaide 1.6 10,500
1911 West Adelaide 7.9 d Port Adelaide 6.10 19,000
1912 West Adelaide 6.10 d Port Adelaide 5.2 28,500
1915 Sturt 6.10 d Port Adelaide 4.10 13,000
1925 Norwood 8.4 d West Torrens 7.9 37,750
1926 Sturt 9.10 d North Adelaide 8.10 30,000
1927 West Adelaide 10.11 d North Adelaide 8.10 33,222
1929 Norwood 16.14 d Port Adelaide 10.9 35,504
1930 North Adelaide 9.13 d Port Adelaide 9.9 23,609
1931 North Adelaide 17.13 d Sturt 11.11 34,202
1934 Glenelg 18.15 d Port Adelaide 16.18 30,045
1935 South Adelaide 15.9 d Port Adelaide 13.13 26,496
1938 South Adelaide 23.14 d Port Adelaide 15.16 33,364
1945 West Torrens 15.25 d Port Adelaide 15.12 47,500
1946 Norwood 13.14 d Port Adelaide 9.10 53,473
1953 West Torrens 9.13 d Port Adelaide 8.12 42,949
1964 South Adelaide 9.15 d Port Adelaide 5.12 56,353
1966 Sturt 16.16 d Port Adelaide 8.8 59,417
1967 Sturt 13.10 d Port Adelaide 10.17 58,849
1968 Sturt 12.18 d Port Adelaide 9.9 57,811
1971 North Adelaide 10.19 d Port Adelaide 9.5 52,228
1972 North Adelaide 19.14 d Port Adelaide 10.12 55,709

We lost 1976, 1984 and 1997 at Footy Park.

So I make we have won 20+13+1 = 34 vs lost 25+3+1 = 29 with a good argument that you add 1889 to make it 30.

lol. Trust you to slam me down with facts REH.

I did the lazy fact check of looking at our record of "runners up" on Wikipedia.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Port_Adelaide_Football_Club#Club_achievements

Anyway, the point still stands that we've lost as many (roughly) as we've won.

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

lol. Trust you to slam me down with facts REH.

I did the lazy fact check of looking at our record of "runners up" on Wikipedia.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Port_Adelaide_Football_Club#Club_achievements

Anyway, the point still stands that we've lost as many (roughly) as we've won.

Those early days are trick for young players. I looked at those early days both on that great full points footy site and other records over many years and just accepted them. But back when footy historian Bernard Whimpress wrote his article about Adelaide Oval GF's in 2012 that I cut and pasted from, I decided to actually go back and look at which were GF losses and which were 2nd places, I added them all up.

Yeah pre Fos and Jack we lost a shit load of GF's, even allowing for Fos non playing coach losses

Fos playing coach 6-1
Motley playing.... 1-0
Fos non playing... 3-6
Jack................. 10-1
Russel............... 0-1
Stephen Williams..3-1
Choco..................1-1

Thats ................24-11 and prior to Fos it was 10-19 + those 5 seconds and 3 firsts

 

[Powerstufff]

lol. Trust you to slam me down with facts REH.

I did the lazy fact check of looking at our record of "runners up" on Wikipedia .....

Those early days are tricky for young players. I looked at those early days both on that great full points footy site and other records over many years and just accepted them. ...

IREH, I don't think I've ever seen you show mercy before.

 

[Powerstufff]

Just saw Alistair Lynch on the Foxtel pre-GF show copping a bit of stick about the punchy-punchy way he went out in his final game. I mean from Dermy and Barry Hall of all the gentle souls who've played in recent years!

 

[tribey]

Peter Gordon on Open Mike the other night talked of this sort of stuff, albeit their financial glass isn't full and there are a coterie of well off Doggies' fans (including himself) still bankrolling the club. But at least they've plugged obvious holes like lack of modern facilities and now have the ability to pay the full salary cap. But for any club the effort put into accruing funds becomes a matter of diminishing returns, the glass can only get so full. We've been able to put money into the our football department in recent years and the 'soft cap' now limits that. Given our mighty $200,000 profit last year where would we put extra funds?

Said he's put between $2,000,000 and $3,000,000 of his own cash into the club since returning in December 2014.

Footscray will never not be a welfare club in multiple capacities. And they're never really made to feel guilt for that.

We were sucked dry by the parasitic SANFL - and continue to be - and we're perennially seen as a club of bludging rogues. Yeah.