Alan Richardson: where's the pressure?

[Leather Poisoning]

Been rebuilding for 5-6 years and still looking average. Can't see much scope for improvement into the top 4 range, especially when they're going to lose their best player (reiwoldt), montagna, gilbert, geary, all look like they should settle down at a nursing home too. Looks like they'll do a melbourne and be in for another 5 years of missing finals, being s**t, and virtually going through two rebuilds.

I think that's the real issue with st kilda - all that rebuilding and still mid table.

The huge fluctuations in performance must be a concern.

 

[Super Hans]

Absolutely stuffed when Roos retires. Looked like they'd be able to kinda cover him with McCartin and Bruce, but they just haven't kicked on. McCartin has injury reasons, dunno what's happened to Bruce. Was a gun a few years ago.

And unless Billings makes the move from half forward to permanent mid they have zero class in the guts. Need to gun mids in the draft, starts with going for Hopper.

 

[adammania9]

I think they're sitting how Collingwood were in 2006/7*, they've done their drafting, got a good batch of kids and a good load of experience who can lead the way on field, but now it's down to the youngsters to continue their development on their own. Riewoldt and Montagna are both almost cooked, it'll be interesting to see if either goes around again, and Sam Gilbert is the only other player who played in 2010 who is also almost done.

*Not saying they'll necessarily win a flag in 3-4 years, I believe there are comparisons to how our list sat at the time.

They desperately need that top tier midfielder, and if they can't get their hands on Kelly or Martin, I don't think they will be building a premiership capable list. Two first round picks this year is a good position to be in, but there's no promises they'll be anywhere near as good as they need to be.

 

[Mazza12346]

There goal kicking is absolutely woeful

Certainly needs major work

Plus dear me hickey is shocker of a footballer

Not sold on people saying They are one star away from a top 4 team cos I get the feeling once rooey retires they have no one to cover his class

 

[Capt Hindsight]

I think that's the real issue with st kilda - all that rebuilding and still mid table.

The huge fluctuations in performance must be a concern.

To be fair Ross Lyon left the Saints list in terrible terrible shape. If they can't land a big name they have been hunting maybe this trade season they target 3 to 4 solid best 22 role players to fill gaps in the side. Like the Hawks did with players such as Hale. Allowing them to use their 2 first round picks in the draft.

 

[fnerd]

To be fair Ross Lyon left the Saints list in terrible terrible shape. If they can't land a big name they have been hunting maybe this trade season they target 3 to 4 solid best 22 role players to fill gaps in the side. Like the Hawks did with players such as Hale. Allowing them to use their 2 first round picks in the draft.

Was wondering how long it d take for some one to squeeze the "ol rossy destroyed their list" excuse in there

FMD the clubs in their 5th year of a "rebuild".....during which time there not once finished above 9th.
And guess..at over the halfway point of this season where they're still at??.
STILL in a mad scramble to make the eight, with just as much chance to miss as make it!
I dont care what club it is, by your 5th year in a rebuild if you havent already played finals at least once and pushing for deeper finals action something hasnt worked.

Then again this is the "aints" we're talking about , I get the feeling Richardson could miss the finals again and some of their nuffie supporters would still bleat "how their so much better off now Lyon is gone and how good of job Richo is doing

 

[Ants]

Was wondering how long it d take for some one to squeeze the "ol rossy destroyed their list" excuse in there

FMD the clubs in their 5th year of a "rebuild".....during which time there not once finished above 9th.
And guess..at over the halfway point of this season where they're still at??.
STILL in a mad scramble to make the eight, with just as much chance to miss as make it!
I dont care what club it is, by your 5th year in a rebuild if you havent already played finals at least once and pushing for deeper finals action something hasnt worked.

Then again this is the "aints" we're talking about , I get the feeling Richardson could miss the finals again and some of their nuffie supporters would still bleat "how their so much better off now Lyon is gone and how good of job Richo is doing

How long do people think a full rebuild takes? If you're doing everything right, you're probably still lucky if you add 4 good to top players to your list a year. Even after 5 years, that's still only 20 players, with many of them under 50 games experience. Sure, there should be a few older players, but there will be some hiccups as well (eg McCartin's concussions). It's not the old days where a team finishing low got two top 5 picks due to priority picks and another top 20 pick. A 'full' rebuild will take longer unless a team gets awfully lucky.

 

[Snake_Baker]

t!
I dont care what club it is, by your 5th year in a rebuild if you havent already played finals at least once and pushing for deeper finals action something hasnt worked.

This is waaaay too soon to call.

StKilda bottomed out for a full rebuild in 2013, 2014 & 2015 and they only turned the corner last season with an upward trend.

They still have until at least the start of 2019 before any calls can be made. This seasons draft (2 x picks 4 to 12) and replacing Riewoldt (somewhat) are the crucial factors in the intervening period.

 

[Verdun]

He inherited a list already 2 years into a rebuild. No excuses if they miss this year. Should get the chop.

Gotta love your avatar - ooh the irony

 

[Verdun]

Yep Richo deserves scrutiny; a given after a loss like that.


It is obvious that the Saints lack class in the middle and were found out last night, I believe that next year is when the pressure deserves to come on.

Concern at the moment is the lack of plan b when things start going wrong, hopefully once we have games in to Gresham, Acres, Long, Battle etc this will turn around.

In the meantime the club and supporters like me will take the deserved whacks from all those who enjoy giving them

 

[Cleanupsoup]

Crunch time is next year, was.never gonna be top 4 this year so don't really matters but next year is when the axe should swing

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

Hawks are letting them down by not tanking for them.

 

[StCicatriz]

Let's be honest Damien Hardwick was performing better at the same point of their coaching careers

 

[Roadto2018]

Some serious re writing of history here, up until early 2013 we thought we were a good side, when we realised we were rubbish and needed a genuine rebuild, don't forget 2012 we finished 9th with a % of 120, so most certainly not rebuilding. During 2013, we were crap and also had very little young talent on our list, our 2011 draft has turned out well (Ross, Webster, Newnes) but at the time they were picks in the 20s and 30s, so it was not until the 2013 draft where we actually started to get focus on getting young talent through the door (in the 2012 off season yes we let Goddard go but we traded that pick for Tom Hickey and change and traded our original pick for Tom Lee and change, so clearly not trying to rebuild the list, rather re generate it). So essentially 2014 and 2015 were spent playing youth and collecting youth (along with the 2013 draft) before we made a surprising rise to nearly make the finals in 2016. The people saying Richo took over 2 years into a rebuild or that we've been rebuilding for 6 years or whatever and are still mid table simply do not know the facts.

This is not an excuse, perhaps (definitely) it would've been better to focus more on playing kids in 2012 and banked more high draft picks and not traded our picks for average players, we also could've drafted better, these are fair criticisms but don't start saying genuine horsecrap like we've been rebuilding for 6 years or whatever.

The mid table stuff I guess is accurate although currently seventh at 9-7 isn't the worst, we were momentarily 4th the other night also, not that we deserve to be anywhere near 4th but nonetheless. However our plan was always to be attacking the top 4 by 2018, whether or not you think we're going to be anywhere near there, that's what our plan is, so criticising us for being mid table when our long term goals aren't to be necessarily any higher at the minute, is probably a bit harsh if not very unfair.

 

[Righteo]

To be fair Ross Lyon left the Saints list in terrible terrible shape. If they can't land a big name they have been hunting maybe this trade season they target 3 to 4 solid best 22 role players to fill gaps in the side. Like the Hawks did with players such as Hale. Allowing them to use their 2 first round picks in the draft.

Ross left at the end of 2011. Almost 6 years ago. More than enough time to successfully complete a full rebuild - if you're a semi-competent organisation. We started ours last year and are already looking in pretty reasonable shape for the future. I would suggest their drafting and player development over the last 5 years has been their number 1 issue.

Having said all that, they're not in as terrible shape as some are saying. Hawk's pick this year will be huge for them and there is undeniably good talent to build around in Ross/Billings/Sinclair/Newnes/Membrey/McCartin etc all being 25 or under. Not the best young group but not the worst either. Jury is still out on whether Richardson is the best guy long-term but he should be fine this year, even if they miss finals.

 

[Ants]

Ross left at the end of 2011. Almost 6 years ago. More than enough time to successfully complete a full rebuild - if you're a semi-competent organisation. We started ours last year and are already looking in pretty reasonable shape for the future. I would suggest their drafting and player development over the last 5 years has been their number 1 issue.

Having said all that, they're not in as terrible shape as some are saying. Hawk's pick this year will be huge for them and there is undeniably good talent to build around in Ross/Billings/Sinclair/Newnes/Membrey/McCartin etc all being 25 or under. Not the best young group but not the worst either. Jury is still out on whether Richardson is the best guy long-term but he should be fine this year, even if they miss finals.

Of course it is. Because Geelong, Hawthorn, Collingwood etc. all did their full rebuilds in that much time. Oh, hang on a second......

 

[NathanMX]

Absolutely stuffed when Roos retires. Looked like they'd be able to kinda cover him with McCartin and Bruce, but they just haven't kicked on. McCartin has injury reasons, dunno what's happened to Bruce. Was a gun a few years ago.

And unless Billings makes the move from half forward to permanent mid they have zero class in the guts. Need to gun mids in the draft, starts with going for Hopper.

And yet we beat GWS with Riewoldt doing less than nothing.

When we flogged Richmond with an all round effort not a peep from you naysayers, when we lose it is back to St Kilda being Riewoldt + Montagna + Gresham and not much else.

Worry about your own teams fortunes, cause at the moment you are doing a "worse then Freo" and going from not just minor premiers but premiers to trash.

 

[Righteo]

Of course it is. Because Geelong, Hawthorn, Collingwood etc. all did their full rebuilds in that much time. Oh, hang on a second......

You're right, it was actually less in some of those cases.

 

[Fabes]

Lol. Got him a beauty

 

[Super Hans]

And yet we beat GWS with Riewoldt doing less than nothing.

When we flogged Richmond with an all round effort not a peep from you naysayers, when we lose it is back to St Kilda being Riewoldt + Montagna + Gresham and not much else.

Worry about your own teams fortunes, cause at the moment you are doing a "worse then Freo" and going from not just minor premiers but premiers to trash.

Do you actually have the ability to not get personal when a dogs fan says something?

Where is your class in the midfield? Ross, Steven, Stevens, Newnes don't really have any. They find the footy but there's no one in the middle who can win a game with 25 touches.

And Josh Bruce? What's happened to him?

These were my points, instead of trying to bag my team for winning the flag (wtf) can you actually acknowledge them?

 

[Ants]

You're right, it was actually less in some of those cases.

You're correct that Collingwood was only five years, but that wasn't a full rebuild given they'd made the grand final in 2003.

Geelong, 1999 to 2007, eight years.
Hawthorn, 2001 to 2008, seven years.
Collingwood, 2005 to 2010, five years, off a grand final in 2003

 

[StCicatriz]

Ross left at the end of 2011. Almost 6 years ago. More than enough time to successfully complete a full rebuild - if you're a semi-competent organisation. We started ours last year and are already looking in pretty reasonable shape for the future. I would suggest their drafting and player development over the last 5 years has been their number 1 issue.

Having said all that, they're not in as terrible shape as some are saying. Hawk's pick this year will be huge for them and there is undeniably good talent to build around in Ross/Billings/Sinclair/Newnes/Membrey/McCartin etc all being 25 or under. Not the best young group but not the worst either. Jury is still out on whether Richardson is the best guy long-term but he should be fine this year, even if they miss finals.

I dont think you understand how hard it is to completely rebuild right now

I'm not talking about a rebuild where you have a handful of good players around 25-27 that you can rebuild around. That shits easy. I'm talking about literally replacing everyone of your best 22.

It's just so incredibly hard to do now especially when you do it at the time of compromised drafts and the introduction of free agency

 

[Roadto2018]

Do people not get that just because ross lyon left in 2011, it doesn't mean our rebuild started then? In 2012 we had largely the same list we did for the 2010 grand final.


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[ShanDog]

I dont think you understand how hard it is to completely rebuild right now

I'm not talking about a rebuild where you have a handful of good players around 25-27 that you can rebuild around. That shits easy. I'm talking about literally replacing everyone of your best 22.

It's just so incredibly hard to do now especially when you do it at the time of compromised drafts and the introduction of free agency

Yep - Carlton would be in a world of hurt trying to turn over the number of players we have if it weren't for the unique situation of GWS needing to reduce its list size. People wonder why we keep dipping into their list...

 

[StCicatriz]

Do people not get that just because ross lyon left in 2011, it doesn't mean our rebuild started then? In 2012 we had largely the same list we did for the 2010 grand final.


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Spot on. My understanding was watters got the job because he promised a small period of regeneration of the list and to then play finals again. Where as the other candidates Richo and Hinkley said we needed a full rebuild.

So netters (CEO) over ruled the committee and went with watters.

During 2011 and 2012 the main focus of ameet and the new list management team was to fix the TPP. The AFL had us forecast to go over the cap due to how our TPP was structured. They suggested we being in ameet in 2011 to help fix it up. Pelchen was brought in to oversee the list regeneration.

The full rebuild and the 2020 strategy took 24 months to finish and only started during 2012 when it was obvious to pelchen and ameet that we were falling off a cliff. It didn't get signed off until later.

So the full rebuild really only started in 2013.

During 2013 watters and pelchen were at each others throat over a disagreement on where the list is at and what needs to happen. The president and CEO then left. Watters gets sacked. Richo the candidate they originally preferred is hired.

To say because the rebuilds in the past have taken x or y number of years so this one should as well is difficult to do as there are other factors we have worked through that weren't present then such as the compromised draft the expansion of two more teams and the introduction of free agency.

However this shouldn't take away from Richos performance. The reality is he is now under performing. Dimma had a better record at the same point of his coaching career and I don't even rate dimma as a premiership winning coach.

Personally I think there are bigger issues there than Richo that need to be fixed first.

Just looking at the numbers at the performance if you look at what historically happens across all clubs then if Richo doesn't make finals this year then he's looking like gone. Luckily for him he's contracted until the end of next year but I think the wheels will be put in motion to prepare for plan b.