The team of the century

[yodellinhank]

This line of thinking doesn't cross the minds of Essendon supporters.

Essendon were 20-1 160% in the H&A season and won all 3 finals easily therefore are the best team ever no further correspondence will be entered into. To them the record in 2000 is the only factor in the equation.

Glad you get it.

As painful as their supporters are, Hawthorn won in 2013 then lost Buddy Franklin who was arguably the best player in the comp and at least the best forward, then won 2014 and 2015. Geelong lost Gary Ablett (see Franklin) at the end of 2010 then won the 2011 flag. As above Geelong had 31 premiership players 2007-11. Hawthorn 2013-15 I'm not sure but I'd guess high 20s. Essendon had 3 or 4 changes from 2000 to 2001 and lost the GF. By 2002 they were miles off it. How great is a team that crumbles so easily?

I spoke too soon. Buddy didn't even make all Australian and you say he's the best forward. You clearly struggle with this.

 

[Scotland]

You're right, he's shit.

 

[MC Extra Dollop]

This line of thinking doesn't cross the minds of Essendon supporters.

Essendon were 20-1 160% in the H&A season and won all 3 finals easily therefore are the best team ever no further correspondence will be entered into. To them the record in 2000 is the only factor in the equation.

As painful as their supporters are, Hawthorn won in 2013 then lost Buddy Franklin who was arguably the best player in the comp and at least the best forward, then won 2014 and 2015. Geelong lost Gary Ablett (see Franklin) at the end of 2010 then won the 2011 flag. As above Geelong had 31 premiership players 2007-11. Hawthorn 2013-15 I'm not sure but I'd guess high 20s. Essendon had 3 or 4 changes from 2000 to 2001 and lost the GF. By 2002 they were miles off it. How great is a team that crumbles so easily?

It's all fair enough, I suppose. If Geelong had closed the deal in 2008, I'd probably feel the same way. But I think it's impossible to completely ignore the fact that that Essendon team and the Port Adelaide team immediately after probably left a premiership or two on the table, while Brisbane capitalised. You're also going to partly rate the teams by how strong they look on paper. And their strength on paper this far down the track is linked to what those players did over their careers, not what they did that season. If they weren't as great a couple of years later without an obvious explanation, suddenly that 'loaded' premiership team doesn't look quite as amazing, even though the numbers and records from that season are safely in the books.

 

[yodellinhank]

It's all fair enough, I suppose. If Geelong had closed the deal in 2008, I'd probably feel the same way. But I think it's impossible to completely ignore the fact that that Essendon team and the Port Adelaide team immediately after probably left a premiership or two on the table, while Brisbane capitalised.

Both Port and Essendon missed chances before they took out the prize.

You're also going to partly rate the teams by how strong they look on paper. And their strength on paper this far down the track is linked to what those players did over their careers, not what they did that season. If they weren't as great a couple of years later without an obvious explanation, suddenly that 'loaded' premiership team doesn't look quite as amazing, even though the numbers and records from that season are safely in the books.

And this is where the judging on paper falls over. Because to say "The '07 cats had selwood" and then use what a mature selwood achieved as one of the top players and best leaders in the comp doesn't truly reflect the rising star selwood's impact on the '07 team.

 

[yodellinhank]

You're right, he's shit.

Present tense?

 

[MC Extra Dollop]

Both Port and Essendon missed chances before they took out the prize.

And this is where the judging on paper falls over. Because to say "The '07 cats had selwood" and then use what a mature selwood achieved as one of the top players and best leaders in the comp doesn't truly reflect the rising star selwood's impact on the '07 team.

And who does that? The 2007 Geelong team had Ablett Bartel, Corey and Ling (all All Australians that year) as first choice midfielders and Selwood was somewhere on the next tier, with the likes of Kelly, Chapman and Enright (not terrible company). But yes, with the knowledge of what players like Selwood, Hawkins, Taylor, Stokes, Varcoe and Duncan would achieve, after they made their first appearance in a Geelong premiership side, it does give those teams that extra credibility, as far as I'm concerned.

 

[yodellinhank]

And who does that? The 2007 Geelong team had Ablett Bartel, Corey and Ling (all All Australians that year) as first choice midfielders and Selwood was somewhere on the next tier, with the likes of Kelly, Chapman and Enright (not terrible company). But yes, with the knowledge of what players like Selwood, Hawkins, Taylor, Stokes, Varcoe and Duncan would achieve, after they made their first appearance in a Geelong premiership side, it does give those teams that extra credibility, as far as I'm concerned.

I think it's silly reasoning, when judging the team year took the field that year. It's like saying '99 north are world beaters by weighting the career of Cameron Mooney in on the argument.

 

[GuzzLG]

Considering what those respective teams subsequently achieved, that's very debatable.

Not at all.

Saying beating 2007 Collingwood (coming off a trip from Perth after playing 5 quarters) is an achievement because they became really good 3 years later is like saying beating Hawthorn in 2005 is a big achievement.

Fact is that Essendon 2000 came up against a much better prelim opponent than Geelong 2007 and didn't have to scrape through to win it.

It's pretty much beyond dispute which club had the more dominant season.

 

[MC Extra Dollop]

I think it's silly reasoning, when judging the team year took the field that year. It's like saying '99 north are world beaters by weighting the career of Cameron Mooney in on the argument.

Selwood was a unanimous choice as the Rising Star and was an All Australian within 1-2 seasons. There wasn't any doubt that he was going to be a gun from about his fourth game. Come on, you're being silly.

 

[yodellinhank]

Selwood was a unanimous choice as the Rising Star and was an All Australian within 1-2 seasons. There wasn't any doubt that he was going to be a gun from about his fourth game. Come on, you're being silly.

I know that selwood was producing high quality football in his very first year. But the fact he went on to produce better shouldn't inflate the '07 cats reputation when speaking on them in an historical context. I was just using mooney as the extreme example to point out why doing so is silly.

 

[MC Extra Dollop]

Not at all.

Saying beating 2007 Collingwood (coming off a trip from Perth after playing 5 quarters) is an achievement because they became really good 3 years later is like saying beating Hawthorn in 2005 is a big achievement.

Fact is that Essendon 2000 came up against a much better prelim opponent than Geelong 2007 and didn't have to scrape through to win it.

It's pretty much beyond dispute which club had the more dominant season.

I didn't say it was an achievement to beat Collingwood in 2007, nor did I say Geelong had a more dominant season in 2007 than Essendon had in 2000. I said it was debatable that Carlton was as good in 2000 as Collingwood was in 2007, considering what those teams had done previously and subsequently and I still think that's a reasonable call.

 

[MC Extra Dollop]

I know that selwood was producing high quality football in his very first year. But the fact he went on to produce better shouldn't inflate the '07 cats reputation when speaking on them in an historical context. I was just using mooney as the extreme example to point out why doing so is silly.

It's a straw man. Geelong had nine All Australians that year and Selwood wasn't one of them.

 

[yodellinhank]

It's a straw man. Geelong had nine All Australians that year and Selwood wasn't one of them.

? Exactly.

 

[JRyan23]

Exactly. Needed to scrape over a 6th placed mediocre collingwood who played 5 quarters the week before and came back from Perth the previous week.

Essendon comfortably beat the 2nd placed Carlton in the 2000 prelim who were a much stronger side than 2007 collingwood.

Port in 2007 were better than Melbourne in 2000


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[GuzzLG]

Port in 2007 were better than Melbourne in 2000


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118% for Melbourne vs 113% for Port says otherwise.