Mega Thread The new Bucks mega-thread. It's Official. 2 Year Deal for Bucks.

[noideaatall]

I’m also concerned about this. On the one hand, hearing that Bucks is more relaxed and a little changed in his approach is a good thing - but entering his seventh year as coach? I love him, and I still want him to succeed, but it’s hard to shake off the feeling that we have been subjected to some kind of monstrous experiment over this long period.

Yes. What makes it worse is that this is the criticism laid against Bucks from virtually the start of his coaching career and links to early criticism of his captaincy. I don't understand why Bucks and/or the club haven't addressed this weakness long ago. This is a real negative look for the club.

 

[PhiloBeddoe]

2012, Geelong are the team to beat, we must play like the Cats
2013 - 2015 Hawks are dominating we must play like the Hawks
2016 - Bulldogs won doing handball club we must do handball club
2017 - Hardwick came back chill and relaxed I must come back chill and relaxed

innovator is our Bucks

Seriously? You want to talk innovation when it's pretty much standard practice to look at the successful sides, adopt and adapt strategies, try to improve on them?
BTW, there was a report on Buckley and allowing others more responsibility and chilling before the 'New Hardwick' stuff came out.

I get it, you're bored but you'll need to find something else.

 

[swoop42]

So your saying that's there has been a year on year progression and that's somehow a bad thing, okay. Interesting perspective. I would have been more concerned if there hadn't have been some level of change each year, some level of incorporating learning from the previous season.

Year on year progression with the net result of 4 consecutive non finals appearances.

He must be a very slow learner if the penny has finally dropped after 6 years at the helm.

Besides if you're appointing a senior AFL coach you'd hope the only "progression" really required and constantly in motion is his understanding of the game and the players under his charge.

It's ridiculous that his personal makeup should still have needed such vast improvement 6 years on that a player can identify a noticeable change and speak to it with reporters.

Basically what Phillips is confirming (and what many already suspected) is that the club have been at a disadvantage for 6 years with a senior coach still learning to people manage effectively, one who may now have finally reached the level someone like a Beveridge or Longmire was at when first appointed to the role.

 

[DraftBalta]

Is all this based on a player using the word overbearing? God forbid a coach should tell you what to do without the appropriate counselling and fluffing of the ego... and that's even if he meant it that strongly, you just spit out words in an interview... The problem is above Buckley... but everyone needs a nice big visible scapegoat

 

[PhiloBeddoe]

Year on year progression with the net result of 4 consecutive non finals appearances.

He must be a very slow learner if the penny has finally dropped after 6 years at the helm.

Besides if you're appointing a senior AFL coach you'd hope the only "progression" really required and constantly in motion is his understanding of the game and the players under his charge.

It's ridiculous that his personal makeup should still have needed such vast improvement 6 years on that a player can identify a noticeable change and speak to it with reporters.

Basically what Phillips is confirming (and what many already suspected) is that the club have been at a disadvantage for 6 years with a senior coach still learning to people manage effectively, one who may now have finally reached the level someone like a Beveridge or Longmire was at when first appointed to the role.

Phillips didn't really confirm that, Swoop. You've used a bit of creative licence there.

 

[jackcass]

Wow. So much agenda driven angst in 1 post.

Year on year progression with the net result of 4 consecutive non finals appearances.

Overly simplistic totally ignoring all other factors other than coaching performance as the determinant of team performance.

He must be a very slow learner if the penny has finally dropped after 6 years at the helm.

What crap! You acknowledge that there has been change year on year then proclaim its come as some epiphany.

Besides if you're appointing a senior AFL coach you'd hope the only "progression" really required and constantly in motion is his understanding of the game and the players under his charge.

It's ridiculous that his personal makeup should still have needed such vast improvement 6 years on that a player can identify a noticeable change and speak to it with reporters.

Yet more crap. If this was the case fledgling coaches would never be appointed. Show me a quote from any coach anywhere who has ever claimed he/she was perfect in their first year, or even one that suggests they weren't better with years in the role.

Basically what Phillips is confirming (and what many already suspected) is that the club have been at a disadvantage for 6 years with a senior coach still learning to people manage effectively, one who may now have finally reached the level someone like a Beveridge or Longmire was at when first appointed to the role.

Basically what you choose to read into what Phillips has said. I haven't listened to the interview but I doubt he's actually said the club has been at a disadvantage, or even that Buck's people skills disadvantage the club. I'll happily take the time to listen to it if that's the case because normally these interviews are overly scripted, reliant upon the players communication skills, and not worth listening to. Certainly they rarely provide any meaningful insight.

Happy for you to cite comments from either Bevo or Horse where they've said they were perfect day 1, year 1. What the players say can't be taken as anything more than lip-service, after all Collingwood players have been saying the same about Bucks since before he took the Senior role.

I just love it when people can take simple comments and twist them to suit an agenda, shows real creativity. I'm just a simple country kid bereft of such talents.

 

[doppleganger]

Year on year progression with the net result of 4 consecutive non finals appearances.

When you take over a team at the top of the mountain the only way is down.

Even the great Clarko has been unable to stop the Hawks slide from the top

2013 - 22 wins
2014 - 20 wins
2015 - 19 wins
2016 - 17 wins
2017 - 10 wins

Four years and counting on the slide for Clarko

He must be a very slow learner if the penny has finally dropped after 6 years at the helm.

A lil interview from Phillips indicates the penny had dropped?

Besides if you're appointing a senior AFL coach you'd hope the only "progression" really required and constantly in motion is his understanding of the game and the players under his charge.

You would hope whoever you appoint has a focus on continually improving themselves.

It's ridiculous that his personal makeup should still have needed such vast improvement 6 years on that a player can identify a noticeable change and speak to it with reporters.

Gee way to lap-up the sub editors headline.

Basically what Phillips is confirming (and what many already suspected) is that the club have been at a disadvantage for 6 years with a senior coach still learning to people manage effectively, one who may now have finally reached the level someone like a Beveridge or Longmire was at when first appointed to the role.

Confirmation bias is confirmed.

 

[swoop42]

When you take over a team at the top of the mountain the only way is down.

Even the great Clarko has been unable to stop the Hawks slide from the top

2013 - 22 wins
2014 - 20 wins
2015 - 19 wins
2016 - 17 wins
2017 - 10 wins

Four years and counting on the slide for Clarko


A lil interview from Phillips indicates the penny had dropped?


You would hope whoever you appoint has a focus on continually improving themselves.


Gee way to lap-up the sub editors headline.


Confirmation bias is confirmed.

LOL comparing Clarkson to Buckley.

Bias confirmed.

 

[swoop42]

Just change the bozos above him responsible for list management, Gubby, dodgy medicos and every other **** up that has held the club back... focusing on Bucks is to let the real incompetents off the hook

And continuing to look to blame anyone bar the coach is letting him off the hook.

The whole place has been a shamble from coach to President to high performance manager to CEO.

 

[Jasper84]

Year on year progression with the net result of 4 consecutive non finals appearances.

He must be a very slow learner if the penny has finally dropped after 6 years at the helm.

Besides if you're appointing a senior AFL coach you'd hope the only "progression" really required and constantly in motion is his understanding of the game and the players under his charge.

It's ridiculous that his personal makeup should still have needed such vast improvement 6 years on that a player can identify a noticeable change and speak to it with reporters.

Basically what Phillips is confirming (and what many already suspected) is that the club have been at a disadvantage for 6 years with a senior coach still learning to people manage effectively, one who may now have finally reached the level someone like a Beveridge or Longmire was at when first appointed to the role.

Swoop, honestly would there have been any way Phillips answered questions about the coach that you would have been happy with?

 

[PhiloBeddoe]

And continuing to look to blame anyone bar the coach is letting him off the hook.

The whole place has been a shamble from coach to President to high performance manager to CEO.

You will find very few who don't attribute some of the blame to Buckley. The majority don't let him off the hook.
Attributing all or none of the blame demonstrates a lack of understanding of, or an unwillingness to understand the many variables that influence results.

 

[doppleganger]

LOL comparing Clarkson to Buckley.

Bias confirmed.

How did I compare them? Just detailed the year on year progression at Hawthorn recently.

You can interpret that however you wish.

Just like how you cherry pick components of a puff piece interview with Phillips saying environment is relaxed, fresh and calm has been used to also fit your own agenda.

Confirmation bias is strong in you to come up with this from a fluff article.

Basically what Phillips is confirming (and what many already suspected) is that the club have been at a disadvantage for 6 years with a senior coach still learning to people manage effectively, one who may now have finally reached the level someone like a Beveridge or Longmire was at when first appointed to the role

 

[Baltimore Jack]

LOL comparing Clarkson to Buckley.

Bias confirmed.

Because you don't have any? right

 

[swoop42]

How did I compare them? Just detailed the year on year progression at Hawthorn recently.

You can interpret that however you wish.

Just like how you cherry pick components of a puff piece interview with Phillips saying environment is relaxed, fresh and calm has been used to also fit your own agenda.

Confirmation bias is strong in you to come up with this from a fluff article.

As I've said these type of comments have been flowing from the club for years now and this isn't an isolated incident.

An easier draw, new staffing appointments and the law of averages suggest we should return to finals next year and I can imagine now all the back slapping that will occur if it does.

The pass mark for me is finals but given we've been sold the Richmond example as the latest reason for the retention of Buckley that seems overly generous. Top 4 should be the goal.

Still it's a start and something positive to hang your hat on hang.

But what if that doesn't eventuate and we miss finals once again?

Are you and your mates even able to contemplate that the time for Buckley must then surely be up?

You seem incapable of being even remotely critical of the coach.

The simple reality is just about every coach in history would have been sacked with the results we've achieved the last 4 seasons, Buckley has been given further opportunity that basically no one ever gets, he's very lucky and only his name, player support and our Presidents reluctance to appoint a low profile replacement has seen him retained and the club is taking one hell of a calculated gamble on him.

We can ill afford another bottom eight finish as a club and if we do then I hope his chances are finally up.

Club before individual.

Forever.

 

[PieBeast]

To be honest we've been hearing that Buckley is a changed man for the last few off seasons now haven't we?

It gets rolled out by one club mouthpiece or another and people keep eating it up.

First there was a concerted effort to give the players more voice, after the particularly "loud" Heater's departure...
Then there was the infamous players should motivate themselves mantra...
Then there was ex assistant coaches coming out in the media and telling us Buckley doesn't listen..
So we've changed the assistant coaches...
And how can we forget the there's nothing wrong with our game plan cause the top sides are using it pearler, until we lost to carlton and Ed told Buckley in no uncertain terms there was actually plenty wrong with it...
Now apparently Bucks is more relaxed...

Collingwood FC, making sure Buckley is the best he can be since 2012 , even if it takes close to ten years.
And who cares about the collateral damage.

 

[swoop42]

Because you don't have any? right

You certainly do and you're the worst offender of them all.

You're the king of the sycophants.

 

[Baltimore Jack]

You certainly do and you're the worst offender of them all.

You're the king of the sycophants.

Yes, but you can't see the difference

I freely admit my bias, while you attempt to hide yours.....psst, its not working

 

[HeathySure]

Seriously? You want to talk innovation when it's pretty much standard practice to look at the successful sides, adopt and adapt strategies, try to improve on them?
BTW, there was a report on Buckley and allowing others more responsibility and chilling before the 'New Hardwick' stuff came out.

I get it, you're bored but you'll need to find something else.

my point is he is a follower not an innovator, he always has been, following does not win anything unless you are clearly better than your opposition.
Listen to Pendles Podcast he is totally an advocate of what i am saying. If you are not good enough to win doing the same you have to find another way. Nothing about Buckleys coaching has suggested he has the capabilities to do this

 

[jackcass]

As I've said these type of comments have been flowing from the club for years now and this isn't an isolated incident.

An easier draw, new staffing appointments and the law of averages suggest we should return to finals next year and I can imagine now all the back slapping that will occur if it does.

The pass mark for me is finals but given we've been sold the Richmond example as the latest reason for the retention of Buckley that seems overly generous. Top 4 should be the goal.

Still it's a start and something positive to hang your hat on hang.

But what if that doesn't eventuate and we miss finals once again?

Are you and your mates even able to contemplate that the time for Buckley must then surely be up?

You seem incapable of being even remotely critical of the coach.

The simple reality is just about every coach in history would have been sacked with the results we've achieved the last 4 seasons, Buckley has been given further opportunity that basically no one ever gets, he's very lucky and only his name, player support and our Presidents reluctance to appoint a low profile replacement has seen him retained and the club is taking one hell of a calculated gamble on him.

We can ill afford another bottom eight finish as a club and if we do then I hope his chances are finally up.

Club before individual.

Forever.

Sweeping generalisations the order of the day, if we disagree with you we must blindly support Bucks....

I'm on record as saying I don't think he should have been re-appointed. At a minimum, there should have been a thorough process to identify the best option. If he was then found to be the best option, so be it.

But that doesn't mean I choose to ignore the facts that all too often get dismissed as excuses like 2014-15-16 being decimated by injuries, the decline of the 2011 list, and the rebuild. Nor do I blithely look at the ladder position over Bucks tenure as the only measure.

 

[swoop42]

Yes, but you can't see the difference

I freely admit my bias, while you attempt to hide yours.....psst, its not working

Oh please.

Between here and Nick's my long posting history will show that I'm generally one of the most even handed participants when it comes to football issues.

Thankfully however I can view two sides of an argument, form an independent opinion and still not be afraid to provide negative feedback if I feel it's warranted and produce positive feedback if I feel it's deserved.

This is generally done with considered posts that provide reasoning behind my thinking and not the glib one sentence responses I can receive in return.

Like most Virgos however I generally take a very analytical approach to things and the stats to me show Buckley is very fortunate to still be coach of Collingwood and he'll have to defy history now on the back of these last 4 seasons to ever become a premiership coach and to me that is all that matters after 6 years of witnessing him in the position.

If people know their Nick's history they'll know I was one of the more vocal supporters of the succession plan, spent the first few seasons defending him but have come to subsequently realise he isn't the Messiah, he appears to have had some major flaws in his man management capability (that I contend until now has negativity impacted the playing group/assistants and it's ability to be the best it can be), his coaching style or mantra is not what I had envisaged (doesn't believe it's his role is to motivate players, seemingly values effort over raw talent), the game plan had obvious weaknesses that took not weeks but years to rectify, while some of the selection decisions both in terms of personnel and timing have been truly head scratching at times.

At the end of the day it's my belief now he was handed the job before he was even remotely ready, that to much learning of his craft and becoming a better people manager have been conducted while a senior coach of a club when others such as a Beveridge have been able to hit the ground running from day 1 because they had already acquired those skills with extensive experience at the lower level.

I'm quite happy to say I would have been fine if he had of been sacked at the end of the season but that's not because of any personal hatred for Buckley.

I've said countless times he's a quality individual, a champion of the club but for me the results to date simply didn't justify the extension and it was done for other reasons of a more personal nature.

It's done now though and I hope the changes conducted because of the review prove the magic tonic and with the passage of time Buckley the coach will be all that he can be and resemble the Messiah I hoped for all those years ago now.

 

[swoop42]

Sweeping generalisations the order of the day, if we disagree with you we must blindly support Bucks....

I'm on record as saying I don't think he should have been re-appointed. At a minimum, there should have been a thorough process to identify the best option. If he was then found to be the best option, so be it.

But that doesn't mean I choose to ignore the facts that all too often get dismissed as excuses like 2014-15-16 being decimated by injuries, the decline of the 2011 list, and the rebuild. Nor do I blithely look at the ladder position over Bucks tenure as the only measure.

So our club lives in a vacuum does it?

All clubs have injuries, all lists decline and all clubs have the ability to trade and draft new players in and replace sub par key personnel to improve.

What has Geelong been doing after they lost the games best player at the end of 2010 or won a premiership in 2011 with a side 3 years on average older than our own 2010 team?

They had a more obvious decline coming in comparison and yet have managed to remain highly competitive albeit short of premiership calibre.

You can be damn sure that no one envisaged our slide down at the end of 2011, not McGuire, not Pert and certainly not us the supporters and it's totally disingenuous to try and make out now that our slide was seen as inevitable.

We stuffed it up as a club on a lot host of levels but that includes an ill equipped senior coach and stubborn President.

They've survived the review while others were pushed out the door and one hopes that will prove sufficient enough but fail to fire again in 2018 then it's time that everyone responsible for our slide is made to own it and we start afresh with a new coach and President.

 

[Saintly Viewed]

Year on year progression

Like your new avatar

 

[Jasper84]

So our club lives in a vacuum does it?

All clubs have injuries, all lists decline and all clubs have the ability to trade and draft new players in and replace sub par key personnel to improve.

What has Geelong been doing after they lost the games best player at the end of 2010 or won a premiership in 2011 with a side 3 years on average older than our own 2010 team?

They had a more obvious decline coming in comparison and yet have managed to remain highly competitive albeit short of premiership calibre.

You can be damn sure that no one envisaged our slide down at the end of 2011, not McGuire, not Pert and certainly not us the supporters and it's totally disingenuous to try and make out now that our slide was seen as inevitable.

We stuffed it up as a club on a lot host of levels but that includes an ill equipped senior coach and stubborn President.

They've survived the review while others were pushed out the door and one hopes that will prove sufficient enough but fail to fire again in 2018 then it's time that everyone responsible for our slide is made to own it and we start afresh with a new coach and President.

I really don't think that Geelong is a great example. They missed finals and were clearly on the decline when the best player in the league fell into their lap. A guy who literally wins games for them off one leg. Since 2011 Geelong have been also rans who now arguably have one of the worst groups of under 25's in the league. You might as well use North as a role model if Geelong are considered post 2011 successes.

 

[Help My Club]

So our club lives in a vacuum does it?

All clubs have injuries, all lists decline and all clubs have the ability to trade and draft new players in and replace sub par key personnel to improve.

What has Geelong been doing after they lost the games best player at the end of 2010 or won a premiership in 2011 with a side 3 years on average older than our own 2010 team?

They had a more obvious decline coming in comparison and yet have managed to remain highly competitive albeit short of premiership calibre.

You can be damn sure that no one envisaged our slide down at the end of 2011, not McGuire, not Pert and certainly not us the supporters and it's totally disingenuous to try and make out now that our slide was seen as inevitable.

We stuffed it up as a club on a lot host of levels but that includes an ill equipped senior coach and stubborn President.

They've survived the review while others were pushed out the door and one hopes that will prove sufficient enough but fail to fire again in 2018 then it's time that everyone responsible for our slide is made to own it and we start afresh with a new coach and President.

Well spoken sir. Articulate without bias nor emotion.

 

[jackcass]

So our club lives in a vacuum does it?

All clubs have injuries, all lists decline and all clubs have the ability to trade and draft new players in and replace sub par key personnel to improve.

What has Geelong been doing after they lost the games best player at the end of 2010 or won a premiership in 2011 with a side 3 years on average older than our own 2010 team?

They had a more obvious decline coming in comparison and yet have managed to remain highly competitive albeit short of premiership calibre.

You can be damn sure that no one envisaged our slide down at the end of 2011, not McGuire, not Pert and certainly not us the supporters and it's totally disingenuous to try and make out now that our slide was seen as inevitable.

We stuffed it up as a club on a lot host of levels but that includes an ill equipped senior coach and stubborn President.

They've survived the review while others were pushed out the door and one hopes that will prove sufficient enough but fail to fire again in 2018 then it's time that everyone responsible for our slide is made to own it and we start afresh with a new coach and President.

Gee, are there actually any negative comments made over the last 4-5 years you haven't rehashed? All asked and answered in various threads over the last 4-5 years. Do yourself a favour, turn around 180 degrees, the future is in the other direction. All this angst because Phillips (apparently) made an innocuous comment you feel validates your negative agenda, the old 2+2= Einsteins theory of relativity.