Cripps Bontempelli Merrett Kelly - the next big 4?

[Sonny Hayes]

Also consider that he's done nothing of note since his first season. As opposed to these four who are all consistent performers.

You clearly didn't watch his second season.

 

[tugga]

Not sure why given he's not from the same draft.

My bad. Was taken a year earlier.

 

[TylerDurden]

So you don't have the answer to that question then?

Didn't think so.

Because he gets out of a stoppage just as hard to support. Not only is he talented, he works his ar5e off. I could go on...

 

[Laphroaig]

You clearly didn't watch his second season.

That's a story which has inflated itself over time.

And it's approaching 4 years ago.

If you could take a proven Top 10 in the game midfielder out of football, run him through a string of serious injuries and then parachute him back in 4 years later, there would be grave doubts whether he would ever again be more than a shadow of his former self.

As for a guy who was no more than a promising kid? There must be many times more doubt. Promising kids have a habit of becoming just ordinary good players (or less) anyway. Take away those crucial 20 to 23 (or thereabouts) developmental years where the really good kids work their arses off to become exceptional, then it's a long catch up road. And that's without injury concerns.

 

[Laphroaig]

Because he gets out of a stoppage just as hard to support. Not only is he talented, he works his ar5e off. I could go on...

You have been going on for some time.

14th in the league for clearances. 2nd for uncontested possessions.

Hmm. I am sure there is a lesson there, but it is one you seem very unwilling to peruse.

3rd for clangers, too. Which is astounding in a player who uses nearly 2/3 of his (mostly uncontested) possessions to handball. Sideways and short.

 

[Sonny Hayes]

You have been going on for some time.

14th in the league for clearances. 2nd for uncontested possessions.

Hmm. I am sure there is a lesson there, but it is one you seem very unwilling to peruse.

3rd for clangers, too. Which is astounding in a player who uses nearly 2/3 of his (mostly uncontested) possessions to handball. Sideways and short.

Clangers are a very misleading stat when using it as a tool to gauge ball use when they take in to consideration frees against.

 

[Laphroaig]

Clangers are a very misleading stat when using it as a tool to gauge ball use when they take in to consideration frees against.

To some extent true. Noting, however, that Mitchell is not a high Free Kick Against player. And make a ratio of FKA versus total possessions (which will tell the true impact of FKA on his clanger count) it is going to be one of the lowest in the game.

Some very high quality players have high clanger counts. Because they take the high difficulty high impact option by foot more often than the also rans. See Martin and Dangerfield.

A handball merchant who gets a lot of uncontested ball really should not be racking up those numbers.

Do go on though. It's a fascinating study in refusal to accept reality when it comes to own team bias.

 

[TylerDurden]

You have been going on for some time.

14th in the league for clearances. 2nd for uncontested possessions.

Hmm. I am sure there is a lesson there, but it is one you seem very unwilling to peruse.

3rd for clangers, too. Which is astounding in a player who uses nearly 2/3 of his (mostly uncontested) possessions to handball. Sideways and short.

5th for total contested ball with the players above him playing finals.

Try again.

 

[Laphroaig]

5th for total contested ball with the players above him playing finals.

Try again.

So you're saying what I did in a different way and claiming victory?

That Mitchell is ranked lower as a contested player than uncontested.

And mindful of the feeble attempt above to sell his clanger count as a statistical anomoly, contested possession is nearly as meaningless a stat as effective disposal. Both give the player a lot of room to qualify. And in the case of contested possession, literally a lot of room.

A significant proportion of CP stats are not really contested at all. Just a proportion of "effective disposals" are just a little bit better than actual clangers.

If a high possession mid is getting numerous so called contested possessions but is nowhere near the top in clerances then guess what. He's getting the soft version of CP.

 

[Sonny Hayes]

So you're saying what I did in a different way and claiming victory?

That Mitchell is ranked lower as a contested player than uncontested.

And mindful of the feeble attempt above to sell his clanger count as a statistical anomoly, contested possession is nearly as meaningless a stat as effective disposal. Both give the player a lot of room to qualify. And in the case of contested possession, literally a lot of room.

A significant proportion of CP stats are not really contested at all. Just a proportion of "effective disposals" are just a little bit better than actual clangers.

If a high possession mid is getting numerous so called contested possessions but is nowhere near the top in clerances then guess what. He's getting the soft version of CP.

He averaged 36 disposals for 6 clangers and almost 2 of which were from frees against. So 4 of his 36 disposals are clangers with the ball, that really is not bad for an inside midfielder...

 

[Laphroaig]

He averaged 36 disposals for 6 clangers and almost 2 of which were from frees against. So 4 of his 36 disposals are clangers with the ball, that really is not bad for an inside midfielder...

It's the third worst of all players in the game!

How is that "not bad"?

 

[Sonny Hayes]

It's the third worst of all players in the game!

How is that "not bad"?

The more you get the ball the more chances of you turning it over, He set the record for the most disposals ever in a season. It's not a surprise he is up there in clangers.

 

[conrad_437]

Start another thread FFS... Tom Mitchell has NOTHING to do with this thread.

 

[SickQwon]

Who's Tom Mitchell?

 

[Laphroaig]

Start another thread FFS... Tom Mitchell has NOTHING to do with this thread.

He started it

 

[Laphroaig]

Who's Tom Mitchell?

All 18 teams have a best stoppage player.

Tom Mitchell is Hawthorn's best. Ranked 14th in the league. Of 18 teams.

God knows why they wanted to tell us this in a thread about future stars on the cusp of greatness.

 

[RobbyRoy]

Both averaged 6 a game last year, with Mitchell averaging more contested possessions. Not sure your point. Let’s hope they match up on each other this year.

Well the point is quite clearly that Mitchell isn't as good a clearance player as Cripps...

Cripps didn't have a great year, injuries obviously didn't help. But Mitchell will never come close to averaging the nearly 9 clearances a game Cripps did, as 20 year old never mind. And I'm not criticizing Mitchell either, I think he's a far better player than others in here are making out. Just not in clearances.

 

[Cripps 'n' Blue Bloods]

Would have Oliver ahead of Cripps but a class below the others

You're trolling hard still. You should probably move on from your issues with Cripps/Carlton.
Everything that you have previously stated as flaws in Cripps' game, is basically the same problem with Oliver's game, but Oliver's flaws are amplified.
Oliver could go on to potentially overtake Cripps (personally I don't think so, but can't rule it out), but there's no way that Oliver is ahead of Cripps. He's doing some things on par with Cripps, but he doesn't do anything better than him.

 

[Cripps 'n' Blue Bloods]

Both averaged 6 a game last year, with Mitchell averaging more contested possessions. Not sure your point. Let’s hope they match up on each other this year.

Mitchell is an incredible player in his own right, but he's 2 years older with 28 more games under his belt. He's a prolific ball winner in a way that Cripps will likely never be, but it's wrong to try and compare them using stats from 2017.
Cripps came into the season having virtually no preseason while recovering from a back injury and was slow to get going. He then continued to play through whilst having broken ribs for 6 weeks and a fractured jaw. He was just starting to get some consistency when he suffered a freak broken leg and only managed 14 games. Now I'm not saying this to try and build Cripps up as some goliath, but his season can definitely be considered below average and frustrating.
Whereas Mitchell had a career year and was one of the favourites for the Brownlow.
I'm not saying that one is better than the other, although Titch would have more runs on the board at the moment. All I'm saying is that it's pointless comparing them, especially on 2017 stats.

Cripps is currently injury free and doing a full preseason (possibly for the first time?). If there was a house nearby, some might say that he's training it down, whatever that means, so 2018 could be his best year if he can get a clean run at it (scary to think that he might top his 2016 numbers of 27 touches, 17 cont, 9 clearances and 6+ tackles).
This year is shaping up to be a good one for all 4 of the players if they can stay healthy and Mitchell, turning 25 in May, is entering his prime, so enjoy.

 

[SickQwon]

You're trolling hard still. You should probably move on from your issues with Cripps/Carlton.
Everything that you have previously stated as flaws in Cripps' game, is basically the same problem with Oliver's game, but Oliver's flaws are amplified.
Oliver could go on to potentially overtake Cripps (personally I don't think so, but can't rule it out), but there's no way that Oliver is ahead of Cripps. He's doing some things on par with Cripps, but he doesn't do anything better than him.

He discredits Cripps because he handballs too much, but somehow Oliver is better because he does it nearly twice as much...?

 

[Demonic Ascent]

Oliver owns this thread.

Zac Merrett lol

 

[AjsGuns]

You're trolling hard still. You should probably move on from your issues with Cripps/Carlton.
Everything that you have previously stated as flaws in Cripps' game, is basically the same problem with Oliver's game, but Oliver's flaws are amplified.
Oliver could go on to potentially overtake Cripps (personally I don't think so, but can't rule it out), but there's no way that Oliver is ahead of Cripps. He's doing some things on par with Cripps, but he doesn't do anything better than him.

Massive Cripps fan, but Oliver is at least on par. Reckon both will be huge again next season and make the AA squad of 40, one of them might even make the team, but it will be hard. (Only limited spots and their competing with Dangerfield, Martin, Fyfe, Sloane, Beams, Kennedy, Ablett Jnr, Pendlebury, Selwood, Kelly, Shiel, Bontempelli, Merret etc.)

 

[conrad_437]

Oliver owns this thread.

Zac Merrett lol

For the last time.

This thread is for the players that were from the 2013 draft class. Oliver is NOT in that draft class, and even if he was in this thread I'm not sure if he would crack the top 3.

 

[Lance Uppercut]

Oliver owns this thread.

Zac Merrett lol

comprehension certainly doesn't

 

[footyfan1978]

Massive Cripps fan, but Oliver is at least on par. Reckon both will be huge again next season and make the AA squad of 40, one of them might even make the team, but it will be hard. (Only limited spots and their competing with Dangerfield, Martin, Fyfe, Sloane, Beams, Kennedy, Ablett Jnr, Pendlebury, Selwood, Kelly, Shiel, Bontempelli, Merret etc.)

Put me down for Cripps in AA team. Nothing but injury could stop him being in team, not just squad.