Team Mgmt. Talk about the makeup of our list - midfield balance, height profile, endurance runners

[blitzer]

I think there's still a few spots up for grab next year. 2nd and possibly 3rd tall forward. I'm not writing off the surprise inclusion of Bellchambers being used as a forward with Draper coming into the team. Plus even without that there's McKernan, Brown, Stewart all in contention with smaller options like Laverde/Begley for that 3rd tall spot.

With Shiel in, that probably means someone like Guelfi becomes depth and Colyer goes even further back into what I like to call Jackson Merrett territory.

There's probably a small lockdown defender role up for grabs unless we decide that Saad and McKenna is enough with a medium along side them. There is going to be heaps intense competition for Gleeson's spot with Redman/Ridley well and truly in the discussion.

Most of the midfield is pretty settled. Its going to be hard for new players to break in without exceptional preseason form.

 

[Bombermania]

I think there's still a few spots up for grab next year. 2nd and possibly 3rd tall forward. I'm not writing off the surprise inclusion of Bellchambers being used as a forward with Draper coming into the team. Plus even without that there's McKernan, Brown, Stewart all in contention with smaller options like Laverde/Begley for that 3rd tall spot.

With Shiel in, that probably means someone like Guelfi becomes depth and Colyer goes even further back into what I like to call Jackson Merrett territory.

There's probably a small lockdown defender role up for grabs unless we decide that Saad and McKenna is enough with a medium along side them. There is going to be heaps intense competition for Gleeson's spot with Redman/Ridley well and truly in the discussion.

Most of the midfield is pretty settled. Its going to be hard for new players to break in without exceptional preseason form.

Do you think Guelfi could do that small lockdown defender role?

 

[blitzer]

Do you think Guelfi could do that small lockdown defender role?

Possibly, I do recall him playing as a small defender in like one of our games this year (can't for the life of me recall against who though). He's got the right attitude for being that lockdown type defender. Reminds me of Ambrose. I'm a big fan of Guelfi and even though I described him as depth, realistically there is always an injury or 2 and I expect him to play more often than not with his versatility.

 

[Vindicater]

McKenna Hurley Saad
Gleeson Hooker Francis
Zaka Shiel Smith
Fantasia Daniher Stringer
Walla McKernan Begley
Bellchambers Merrett Heppell

Parish Langford Redman Guelfi

 

[eDPS]

McKenna Hurley Saad
Gleeson Hooker Francis
Zaka Shiel Smith
Fantasia Daniher Stringer
Walla McKernan Begley
Bellchambers Merrett Heppell

Parish Langford Redman Guelfi

Not a fan of McGrath?

 

[Vindicater]

Not a fan of McGrath?

s**t... I knew I missed someone.

 

[carloss]

Same as this year with Shiel in for Colyer

That's good enough for me.

 

[Westlo]

Possibly, I do recall him playing as a small defender in like one of our games this year (can't for the life of me recall against who though). He's got the right attitude for being that lockdown type defender. Reminds me of Ambrose. I'm a big fan of Guelfi and even though I described him as depth, realistically there is always an injury or 2 and I expect him to play more often than not with his versatility.

In one of the other threads the boys were saying he was getting prepped for a run with role, a role we really need to fill to go where we want to....... look @ Hutchings.... shut down Viney and Sidebottom in the prelim and GF.....

 

[blitzer]

In one of the other threads the boys were saying he was getting prepped for a run with role, a role we really need to fill to go where we want to....... look @ Hutchings.... shut down Viney and Sidebottom in the prelim and GF.....

I could really get behind that. I've wanted us to have a decent run with player for ages. The best part about Guelfi is when its not required he can actually play other roles as well.

 

[BrunoV]

I find it hard to think about the make up of the list without starting from a best 22, and seeing the VFL side, and working from there. It highlights what we have and what we don't have. Not so much that anyone necessarily cares but I can't be bothered repeating myself so my rationale for the side is here.

Now that we have our man, I've dropped Parish out of the team. He doesn't have the versatility of the other players whose speed and size is needed to round out the team and I seriously doubt that he'll be thought of as being ahead of any of Redman, Laverde, Langford or Ridley by the time we've seen 4 or 5 games next year.

SD-1: Saad KD-1: Hurley KD-3: Francis
HB-1: McKenna KD-2: Hooker HB-2: Redman (M)

R: Bellchambers M-1: Shield M-2: Myers
M-3: Merrett W-1: Smith W-2/HB-3: Heppel

KF-3: Stringer KF-1: Daniher MF2: Laverde (M)
SF-1: Fantasia KF-2: Stewart (R) SF-2: McDonald-Tipungwuti

I-1: McGrath (M/D) I-2: Zaharakis (M/F) I-3: Ridley (D/W) I-4: Langford (M/F)

Seconds team:

SD-1: McNiece KD-1: Ambrose KD-3: Zerk-Thatcher
HB-1: Gleeson (W) KD-2: Hartley HB-2: ________

R: Draper M-1:Parish M-2: Guelfi
M-3: Clarke W-1: Colyer W-2/HB-3: Mutch

MF-1: Begley (M) KF-1: Brown MF2: Mynott (M)
SF-1: Baguley KF-2: McKernan SF-2: Houlahan

I-1: Hartley I-2: Long I-3: Baguley I-4: Dea I-5: Leuenberger I-6: Lavender

The bench for the seconds mainly reflects current uncertainty about contract status. I don't really know what we are going to do with Lavender though I hope that we persist with the project (and I believe that he is contracted). Hartley would be in the mix with Gleeson, Parish, McKernan, Draper and Brown as the best player in that team.

Tall defenders (8): Hooker, Hurley, Francis, Ridley, Gleeson, Hartley, Ambrose and Zerk-Thatcher.
Utilities (2): Brown and Lavender.

Includes genuine key defenders and the taller guys who inevitably find themselves playing as key defenders at times during games and throughout seasons. There appears to be much more of a cross over in the roles of the taller defenders than what there is for the key, third tall and mid-sized forwards. There are obviously plenty of high quality tall defensive options.

I don't believe that there is any chance that Hartley will not be on an AFL list next year, the uncertainty surrounds whether it will be with us. I am starting to think it more likely that he will be elsewhere. It seems that Dea is not going to play AFL next year so we will end up having an extra list spot we would not have planned on. We'll want to turn that into into a player (such as Ben Long) that we might not otherwise have had the space to pursue or a higher pick and Hartley looms as the best chance to pull that off. In terms of list balance, Lavender has looked okay in defence which is where tall athletes are generally most likely to make it so I'd gladly pencil him in as a project in KD-2 above. I doubt that Mason Fletcher is not being factored into our planning either (he'd be a rookie pick we can take under the father-son rules).

Small defenders/half backs (4): Saad, McKenna, Redman and McNiece.
Utilities (2): McGrath and Guelfi.

From a list management perspective, we probably don't look at McGrath as more than a pinch hitter in defence. Ultimately he and Redman will rotate in defence and on-ball/wing but I doubt that we are going to look at McGrath as a starting defender in the future.

As much as it is a view that is likely to be met with derision, there is a genuine need on the list for another small defender/half back with genuine speed. In the seconds team above the only option, and it's purely hypothetical, would be Long. Guelfi is definitely a competent small utility in defence but I don't think that he has the pace and I think that it's important not to stretch to the utilities too thin (otherwise you end up footy's version of selecting 3 all-rounders to do the job of 2 players).

Ruckmen (2): Bellchambers and Draper.
Utilities (2): McKernan and Lavender

This has been done to death. There is real doubt that Leuenberger will play on and we're 12 months short of confidently backing Draper to be the number 2 for the sole reason that we would not want to be relying on him for an extended period in the event that Bellchambers got a significant injury.

I reckon that with the mid-season draft we'll go with Draper, we may even decide that Leuenberger is unnecessary. McKernan gives enough around the ground to be considered competent cover.

Midfielders (14): Shiels, Merrett, Heppell, Smith, Myers, McGrath, Zaharakis, Langford, Parish, Guelfi, Clarke, Colyer, Mutch, Mynott and Long.
Utilities (4): Laverde, Redman, Ridley and Begley.

The addition of Shields will be huge. We've not had that style of dynamic inside mid since Tim Watson (and I certainly did not see him in his prime). Myers is a particularly good player to have around the ball because he is a good defensive player at stoppages. Langford will be stronger and will be important to compliment Myers in the second midfield rotation.

Parish and Guelfi, as depth, is a pretty good place to start but in terms of proven midfield ability it falls way dramatically. I don't look at Clarke, Mutch and Mynott as being able to provide the cover we need next year. Who knows what we'll get from Colyer.

I'd like to think that Laverde and Ridley will get the opportunity to throw their weight around on the ball. Redman is quite a powerful, dynamic player who I'd also like to see run on the ball. These are the three players we need to make the jump and I think that at this stage they're also the most likely.

Key forwards (4): Daniher, Stewart, McKernan and Brown.
Utilities (2): Hooker and Lavender.

I still look at Daniher as a top 10 player in the competition. Picking the second key forward is probably the hardest decision. McKernan is the best option for the ruck. Stewart is the most versatile forward but his set shot goal kicking has lost the plot. The coaches absolutely love Brown who is clearly the smartest player of the three but I don't think he gives us the "key forward" structural contribution the others do.

Third tall/medium forwards (4): Stringer, Laverde, Begley and Houlahan
Utilities (1): Langford and Mynott.

To my mind, these players don't fit as neatly into the other two forward categories as the equivalents at the other end of the ground. It's not really a necessary stand alone category except that (perceived) mobility tends to be a factor differentiating selection of these players (particularly from the key forwards).

I think that Stringer is a specialist forward now.

Even if Houlahan did not survive, and he is contracted, we've got plenty of options for 2019 given the cross-over of categories.

Small forwards (3): Fantasia, McDonald-Tipungwuti and Baguley
Utilities (1): Colyer.

Whether or not Baguley is re-signed, I'd definitely be looking at bringing in another really quick small forward as there is clearly a need on the list.

I'm not sure I remember the time when Colyer played as a small forward but there seems to be a commonly held view that he has done it so I have put him in as a utility.

List changes: Goddard, Green, Merrett are definitely gone. I'd bet that Leuenberger and Dea retire. Draper will take Leuenberger's spot and Sheels is taking another list spot. So we currently have two primary list spots and a rookie list spot which are free.

I suspect that we would have heard something by now if we were going to try to trade Colyer out. Hartley is really the only player, at this stage and having heard nothing, that we could use to try to improve our draft position.

I don't know that I would persist with Jake Long but it is very surprising that our season ended 7 weeks ago but he has survived to this point whereas Jackson Merrett has not. I've also read that Baguley being offered a contract is dependent on what else happens with the rest of the list. Long is the only player we have heard absolutely nothing about. I don't usually pay attention to brotherly love selection conspiracies, and I'm not sure if he is close with his cousin, but maybe Jake's fate is tied in with his cousin's. Hartley is, again, important, because there have been a number of times in the last few years where we have held on to known commodities rather than using really late selections. We might try to turn Long's spot into Hind but we also might not get that opportunity.

When I think about the weakness on our list it's the proven ball winning ability of the midfield and, to a less extent, the running power in the middle of the ground. Shiel goes a long way to addressing that weakness, though he's not a renowned two-way runner, and just as importantly there is natural development of the list.

When entering the draft at pick 34, I'm definitely not of the view that the player has to be a midfielder. I think that "best available" that late in a draft is an assessment which is generally linked to need.

If a Worpel, for example, were to slide we'd have to think long and hard about selecting that player. If there was a Redman available (both in terms of the low trade profile and style of player) I think that we will select the Redman and, given the spread of the list above, I would agree with the selection (and I think Worpel will end up being a really good player, making plenty of recruiters look foolish).

We've committed ourselves to the midfield options so I think we have to see how that plays out. If there is no clear standout which could cause us to re-think strategy I think that we recruit for parts of the list where we have no depth of options.

I'd be looking at:

Pick 34: Running half back/defender (with an eye to developing as defender/midfield utility)
Pick 66: Small forward
Pick 88: Draper promotion
Rookie: Tall athletic utility (ideally big enough to be a ruck man)

I'd dearly like to have another pick in the 40s as it does seem that there will be a few meat-axe mids who will be available around the range. I'd also have to think long and hard about an endurance machine in the middle.

The other thing that the exercise does is highlight how useful a player like Jack Martin would be. He could play forward or back and kill two bird with one stone but I still have reservations about the cost. I'd really like to know what Laverde, Redman and Langford do in the middle next year before committing next year's first round pick to Martin.


Edits: changes following list announcements underlined and struck out.

 

[tha Freak]

With Shiel, we are complete!

 

[brutus76]

2 of Stewart, Brown, Smacks will be VFL ing. I'd be happy to trade Brown or Smacks.

Soft spot for J-Stew. I think Bags and Longy get tapped on the shoulder. Maybe rookie list Bags a la Richitelli GC.

 

[Jacques_]

Does Baguley stay now that Colyer has been traded? Hopefully that opens a list spot for him for a final 12 months

 

[Duckworth]

Unsigned: Bagulay, Dea, Hartley, Luenberger, Long

Currently, have 2 lives picks (#34 & #66) in the draft and a #84 McKernan upgrade.

 

[eth-dog]

So far we have:

OUT: Goddard, Green, Merrett, Colyer
IN: Shiel
UNSIGNED: Baguley, Leuenberger, Long, Hartley, Dea. Rookies: Mynott, McNiece (Cat B?), Lavender (Cat B)

I think we'll re-sign either Baguley or Long. Leuey I still think retires. Hartley should get another year. Dea I'm 50/50 on. All the rookies should be retained.

Assuming we're promoting Smack and we're cutting 2 more from the senior list I think we may go for a DFA ruckman, not sure who yet (cos I haven't bothered looking to see who is going) and that'll leave 3 senior list spots and 1/2 Cat A rookie spots, one of which I assume we use on Fletcher.

 

[Towno78]

So when was the last time we had 3 All Australian's in the midfield?
I'm thinking a brief period with Hird, Mercs, JJ.
Time to get excited.

 

[PhoenixBonez]

So when was the last time we had 3 All Australian's in the midfield?
I'm thinking a brief period with Hird, Mercs, JJ.
Time to get excited.

Smith was very close to adding his name to that list too.
Heppell, Shiel, Merrett, Smith. Nice mix of inside/outside/offence/defense too in this lot.

 

[fishardansin]

When was the last time that the list was this jam packed? Anyone who is going to be delisted is a mature bodied player who is 18th-25th picked player or a young player who potentially has upside. Next year we're probably going to have to trade out for 2nd round picks.

 

[BrunoV]

We are getting dangerously close to my idea of list nirvana.

Not getting my hopes up but were down to one player we could waste games on and he's not contracted.

Good times.

 

[raskolnikov]

Shiel-Stringer-Smith-Saad-Heppell-Hooker-Hurley = sssshhh!!

Us next year telling our opponents to hush.

 

[Mootsy]

Begley, Smith, Saad, and Shiel, inside mids?

Parish, McGrath, Zaharakis, Heppell, Langford, pretty good as mids.

 

[Liberator]

One more 'meataxe' inside mid would be nice, pref 185cm+ and good in the air. Preferably with a surname starting with 'E' or 'I' (SSSHHEEIT comes into play y'see)
If Luey isn't re-signed, then a goodtogo ruck maybe via rookie is needed in the short-term imo. Perhaps another small forward .

 

[EckersDevs]

Unsigned: Bagulay, Dea, Hartley, Luenberger, Long

Currently, have 2 lives picks (#34 & #66) in the draft and a #84 McKernan upgrade.

The rules have actually changed re: having to use a draft pick to upgrade a rookie. So McKernan will cost a spot on the senior list but not pick 84. With Colyer, Goddard, Jerrett and Green going out; bringing in Shiel, upgrading McKernan leaves us with 2 senior lists spots currently.

Baguley and Luenberger will be retained on a 1 year deal (hopefully Hartley too - Dogs may have interest). Futures of Dea and Long up in the air, I think they will both be delisted and we will take picks 34, 66 and 84 to the draft. Would also consider throwing a 1-2 year deal at an out of contract forward such as Lachie Tiziani from GWS and get him as a DFA.

 

[BrunoV]

I was thinking that the priority for 34 would be a running defender/half back with genuine speed.

I didn't realise or had forgotten that we've been linked to another Irishman, Jordan Morrissey.

http://m.afl.com.au/news/2018-10-09/could-a-second-irishman-morrissey-join-the-bombers

Admittedly a first year Irishman is unlikely to have an AFL impact but he's got all of the raw tools (and must have thought that he was supposed to jog the 20m at draft testing) but we've got a spot at half back in the reserves for him which could do the world of good in 1 year.

I'd take Morrissey and and then not really worry about player type with pick 34.

 

[Atavistic]

I think this is the best list we've had since the early 2000s. What do others think? Arguably, the only thing we lack is a very good second key forward, but Richmond seemed to do fine with just Riewoldt, and Collingwood made the GF with just Cox and Mihocek, so it's probably unnecessary.

If Worsfold can't get this list to finals next year it will be a bit of an indictment.