Jabba73
Hall of Famer
The list of candidates would be long and undistinguished ...
Our next coach
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It's amazing that many of the more successful coaches are ex players that had mongrel in them....Chris Scott, Clarkson, Hardwick, Lyon....even Worsfold at WCE, Malthouse, Matthews....
Absolutely no idea what all that means though.
But I kind of hope that we we get a coach who had some mongrel as a player, get some mongrel into our group, and instruct SOS to go out and get some more mongrel. B Scott had mongrel, Voss had it by the truck load....
Anyway, I think I've used 'mongrel' enough in this post, time to put the kettle on now.
Absolutely no idea what all that means though.
But I kind of hope that we we get a coach who had some mongrel as a player, get some mongrel into our group, and instruct SOS to go out and get some more mongrel. B Scott had mongrel, Voss had it by the truck load....
Anyway, I think I've used 'mongrel' enough in this post, time to put the kettle on now.
Melbourne were a joke of a club for a long, long time.
They played in a prelim last year.
The main reason their 2019 has been ruined is the poor fitness/injury management of the players during the off-season.
Their last month or so has been good, should have beaten Adelaide comfortably on the weekend but didn't only due to inaccurate goal-kicking.
BlueGum
Navy Blue
Welcome
Ratten Facts
I put these together just to answer a few queries that have been put forward regarding Ratts coaching abilities, as well as a few other pertinent facts for your enjoyment.
It is mostly from 2011 but I am happy to try and pull up data from other seasons if people have specific questions.
Coaching Record at Carlton
Legend
W Wins L Losses D Draws W% Winning percentage LP Ladder position LT League teams
Season Team Games W L D W % LP LT
2007* Carlton 6 0 6 0 0.0% 15 16
2008 Carlton 22 10 12 0 45.5% 11 16
2009 Carlton 23 13 10 0 56.5% 7 16
2010 Carlton 23 11 12 0 47.8% 8 16
2011 Carlton 24 15 8 1 64.6% 5 17
2012 Carlton 22 11 11 0 50.0% 10 18
Career totals 120 60 59 1 50.4%
* = Caretaker coach
2011
* Carlton's home and away record of 14–7–1 was its best since 2000.
* Carlton's home and away season placing of 5th was its best since 2001.
* Carlton's final placing of 5th was its best since 2000.
* Carlton conceded only 1700 points in the home and away season, its fewest since 1976.
I guess Ratten’s defensive abilities aren’t quite as bad as people remember especially considering the defenders he had to work with. This fact is shown multiple times in this list of relevant facts.
* Carlton's percentage of 130.88 was its best since 2000.
The origin of the Richmond and Pies Game Style follows in this list of our leading goal kickers for 2011.
Player Goals Behinds Coleman[48]
Andrew Walker 56 27 7th
Eddie Betts 50 22 10th
Jeff Garlett 48 32 13th
Marc Murphy 22 13
Bryce Gibbs 21 18
Kade Simpson 17 18
Jarrad Waite 16 19
David Ellard 15 7
Chris Judd 14 16
Bret Thornton 13 8
* Round 3 – the attendance of 88,181 at the Carlton vs Collingwood match was the highest ever for a home-and-away match between the two teams, and was the second-highest for a Carlton home-and-away match against any opponent.[51]
* Round 6 – Carlton's win against Sydney at the S.C.G. was its first win in Sydney since Round 7, 1993, breaking a losing streak of ten matches (seven matches at the S.C.G. and three matches at ANZ Stadium).[52]
* Round 10 – Melbourne's score of 6.10 (46) was the lowest score conceded by Carlton in any game since Round 5, 2004.[53]
* Round 11 - Carlton held Port Adelaide scoreless in the final quarter, the first time since Round 19, 1999 that Carlton had kept a team scoreless for a quarter of football.[53]
* Round 15 – Carlton's score of 28.16 (184) against Richmond was its highest in any game since Round 17, 1998,[49] and its highest ever in any game against Richmond, breaking the previous record of 28.9 (177) set in the 1972 VFL Grand Final.[49]
* Round 15 – Carlton's score in the second half, 17.9 (111), was its highest in a half of any game since Round 18, 2000.[50]
* First Elimination Final – Carlton's win against Essendon was its first win in a finals match since the First Elimination Final, 2001, on 8 September 2001, a drought of ten years, three days. The club featured in three losing finals during the drought.[54]
* First Elimination Final – the attendance of 90,161 was a new record for the highest in VFL/AFL history for an Elimination Final;[54] this record was surpassed in 2013.[55]
We beat Essendon in the Elimination Final by 62 points.
Unfortunately but gallantly we lost the First Semi Final to West Coast in WA by 3 points.
I put these together just to answer a few queries that have been put forward regarding Ratts coaching abilities, as well as a few other pertinent facts for your enjoyment.
It is mostly from 2011 but I am happy to try and pull up data from other seasons if people have specific questions.
Coaching Record at Carlton
Legend
W Wins L Losses D Draws W% Winning percentage LP Ladder position LT League teams
Season Team Games W L D W % LP LT
2007* Carlton 6 0 6 0 0.0% 15 16
2008 Carlton 22 10 12 0 45.5% 11 16
2009 Carlton 23 13 10 0 56.5% 7 16
2010 Carlton 23 11 12 0 47.8% 8 16
2011 Carlton 24 15 8 1 64.6% 5 17
2012 Carlton 22 11 11 0 50.0% 10 18
Career totals 120 60 59 1 50.4%
* = Caretaker coach
2011
* Carlton's home and away record of 14–7–1 was its best since 2000.
* Carlton's home and away season placing of 5th was its best since 2001.
* Carlton's final placing of 5th was its best since 2000.
* Carlton conceded only 1700 points in the home and away season, its fewest since 1976.
I guess Ratten’s defensive abilities aren’t quite as bad as people remember especially considering the defenders he had to work with. This fact is shown multiple times in this list of relevant facts.
* Carlton's percentage of 130.88 was its best since 2000.
The origin of the Richmond and Pies Game Style follows in this list of our leading goal kickers for 2011.
Player Goals Behinds Coleman[48]
Andrew Walker 56 27 7th
Eddie Betts 50 22 10th
Jeff Garlett 48 32 13th
Marc Murphy 22 13
Bryce Gibbs 21 18
Kade Simpson 17 18
Jarrad Waite 16 19
David Ellard 15 7
Chris Judd 14 16
Bret Thornton 13 8
* Round 3 – the attendance of 88,181 at the Carlton vs Collingwood match was the highest ever for a home-and-away match between the two teams, and was the second-highest for a Carlton home-and-away match against any opponent.[51]
* Round 6 – Carlton's win against Sydney at the S.C.G. was its first win in Sydney since Round 7, 1993, breaking a losing streak of ten matches (seven matches at the S.C.G. and three matches at ANZ Stadium).[52]
* Round 10 – Melbourne's score of 6.10 (46) was the lowest score conceded by Carlton in any game since Round 5, 2004.[53]
* Round 11 - Carlton held Port Adelaide scoreless in the final quarter, the first time since Round 19, 1999 that Carlton had kept a team scoreless for a quarter of football.[53]
* Round 15 – Carlton's score of 28.16 (184) against Richmond was its highest in any game since Round 17, 1998,[49] and its highest ever in any game against Richmond, breaking the previous record of 28.9 (177) set in the 1972 VFL Grand Final.[49]
* Round 15 – Carlton's score in the second half, 17.9 (111), was its highest in a half of any game since Round 18, 2000.[50]
* First Elimination Final – Carlton's win against Essendon was its first win in a finals match since the First Elimination Final, 2001, on 8 September 2001, a drought of ten years, three days. The club featured in three losing finals during the drought.[54]
* First Elimination Final – the attendance of 90,161 was a new record for the highest in VFL/AFL history for an Elimination Final;[54] this record was surpassed in 2013.[55]
We beat Essendon in the Elimination Final by 62 points.
Unfortunately but gallantly we lost the First Semi Final to West Coast in WA by 3 points.
[TR][TD]
Scores (Carlton's scores indicated in bold)
[/TD][TD]
Venue
[/TD][TD]
Attendance
[/TD][/TR]
[TR][TH]Home[/TH][TH]Away[/TH][TH]Result[/TH][/TR]
[TR][TD]
First Elimination Final
[/TD][TD]
[/TD][TD]
21.23 (149)
[/TD][TD]
13.9 (87)
[/TD][TD]
Won by 62 points Report
[/TD][TD]
MCG [H]
[/TD][TD]
90,161
[/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD]
First Semi-Final
[/TD][TD]
[/TD][TD]
15.11 (101)
[/TD][TD]
15.8 (98)
[/TD][TD]
Lost by 3 points Report
[/TD][TD]
Patersons Stadium[A]
[/TD][TD]
42,803
[/TD][/TR]
Scores (Carlton's scores indicated in bold)
[/TD][TD]
Venue
[/TD][TD]
Attendance
[/TD][/TR]
[TR][TH]Home[/TH][TH]Away[/TH][TH]Result[/TH][/TR]
[TR][TD]
First Elimination Final
[/TD][TD]
Sunday, 11 September (2:40 pm)
[/TD][TD][/TD][TD]
21.23 (149)
[/TD][TD]
13.9 (87)
[/TD][TD]
Won by 62 points Report
[/TD][TD]
MCG [H]
[/TD][TD]
90,161
[/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD]
First Semi-Final
[/TD][TD]
Saturday, 17 September (5:50 pm)
[/TD][TD][/TD][TD]
15.11 (101)
[/TD][TD]
15.8 (98)
[/TD][TD]
Lost by 3 points Report
[/TD][TD]
Patersons Stadium[A]
[/TD][TD]
42,803
[/TD][/TR]
We had key players who missed that semi and were blatantly robbed by the umps ... was a great season ...
Bordertoon
Team Captain
If Ratts is looking to find his way home Murph, then I hope he has you on his payroll! But seriously, I appreciate your efforts in backing up your case for his return. I must admit, reading over your post, there’s some fantastic memories there, and we certainly played some swashbuckling attacking footy under Ratts. If he’s strengthened the defensive string to his bow since leaving us, which seems likely from his time at the Hawks, then he’ll certainly make a potent senior coach for someone down the track ... I’m just not convinced it’ll be with us. I could very easily live with his appointment though, if that’s what the club decides and manages to make happen. A Ratts return could see us become the new New Romantics ... but hopefully without the questionable ‘80s hairdos!
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Colonel_Klink
Team Captain
Great post Murph, this at least demonstrates, to the completely closed minded, that he wasn't a bad coach.
I wouldn't lose a wink of sleep if he were out new coach, in fact, I'd be very content.
Dont_Shoot_TheMessenger
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- May 21, 2019
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Every team he has coached has made a Grand Final. He hasn't missed. He's second only to Al Clarkson and far better than roos. Roos is a myth
ESKIE
Keeping it Cool.
- Feb 28, 2009
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ESKIE
Keeping it Cool.
- Feb 28, 2009
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Not sure I buy this Really Loopy coaching talk
Jabba73
Hall of Famer
I have no desire to see Roos in charge either
- Oct 4, 2015
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No way that we've already chosen Ross Lyon or anyone for that matter.
If we've already decided who our new coach is then we're screwed.
I'm expecting that we will go through a process, gather as much as we can from each candidate and then decide who we believe is the best fit.
If we've already decided who our new coach is then we're screwed.
I'm expecting that we will go through a process, gather as much as we can from each candidate and then decide who we believe is the best fit.
- Mar 20, 2017
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I think logically that our potential choices can be broken down into three categories;
1) Existing head coach (include B. Scott here). Less risk due to having knowledge of how they operate under thr pressure. Potential candidates B. Scott, Lyon, Hinkley or a hail mary at Clarkson. Most likely of these B. Scott.
2) Coach with previous experience (the Bill belichick option). Potential options Ratts, Voss. Fraught with danger as it has rarely been done at AFL level and if the coach was deemed to have failed for a second time the consequences would be major.
3) New coach who has done the assistant coach role and looks to be ready for the next step like Burns and Caracella. For every success in this area like hardwick there has been a failure like Neeld. If the board went down this path you can almost guarantee that their would be a Roos like football director svengali appointed to guide and protect.
I would love to see Teague show that he has the ability and aptitude for the position in the rest of the season and be paired with a Roos type mentor for 2020 & 2021. Lot of water to flow under the bridge before that even becomes an option.
1) Existing head coach (include B. Scott here). Less risk due to having knowledge of how they operate under thr pressure. Potential candidates B. Scott, Lyon, Hinkley or a hail mary at Clarkson. Most likely of these B. Scott.
2) Coach with previous experience (the Bill belichick option). Potential options Ratts, Voss. Fraught with danger as it has rarely been done at AFL level and if the coach was deemed to have failed for a second time the consequences would be major.
3) New coach who has done the assistant coach role and looks to be ready for the next step like Burns and Caracella. For every success in this area like hardwick there has been a failure like Neeld. If the board went down this path you can almost guarantee that their would be a Roos like football director svengali appointed to guide and protect.
I would love to see Teague show that he has the ability and aptitude for the position in the rest of the season and be paired with a Roos type mentor for 2020 & 2021. Lot of water to flow under the bridge before that even becomes an option.
zeggie
You can't kick goals when you're unconscious.
The more and more I look at it, it's going to be Lyon.
Previously worked with SOS, previously worked under Roos. Has worked at Carlton before, would jump at the chance of moving back to Melbourne and securing a new contract. Has the coaching credits to back it up.
He had Barker as an assistant at StK as well. Might mean Barker stays. Not sure how I feel about that. I still never understood keeping Barker when he missed out on the top job.
I personally want Voss, but I think Lyon is going to be at the top of the board's list (besides Clarkson which is a pipedream. We'll enquire, have a coffee...but we won't get anywhere)
Previously worked with SOS, previously worked under Roos. Has worked at Carlton before, would jump at the chance of moving back to Melbourne and securing a new contract. Has the coaching credits to back it up.
He had Barker as an assistant at StK as well. Might mean Barker stays. Not sure how I feel about that. I still never understood keeping Barker when he missed out on the top job.
I personally want Voss, but I think Lyon is going to be at the top of the board's list (besides Clarkson which is a pipedream. We'll enquire, have a coffee...but we won't get anywhere)
I would like to see Teague succeed and prove that a good coach doesnt need a father figure sitting behind him.
I mean what the heck its a bloody footy team. Its not that hard. You get good players and either have the coaching flair or don't.
Had a extremely vivid dream last night. Actually thought it was real-life until I woke up.
I was at a Carlton function after our win against Brisbane this weekend.
Half way through they make an announcement.
"The Carlton football club would like to introduce our next coach...
BRETT RATTEN"
The supporters were loving it. Hugged some random bloke next to me. I was pumped up.
Then I woke and realised it was all a dream. Also realised how much I want Ratten back.
I was at a Carlton function after our win against Brisbane this weekend.
Half way through they make an announcement.
"The Carlton football club would like to introduce our next coach...
BRETT RATTEN"
The supporters were loving it. Hugged some random bloke next to me. I was pumped up.
Then I woke and realised it was all a dream. Also realised how much I want Ratten back.
Just some thoughts on Ross.
Have a look through the 2010 and 2013 Grand Final sides and see some of the names.
Gram, Dawson, Gilbert, Blake, Eddy, Ray, Peake, Jones, Dempster, Gwlit, McQualter, Baker.
Sutcliffe, Spurr, Clarke, Mzungu, DeBoer, Suban, Dawson, Mayne, Duffield, Crowley, Johnson, Pearce.
Now insert one of SoapyV's lists!
You can't deny his ability to get the most out of a lot - of what we from the outside would perceive as - very limited footballers.
Now whether he has to be held accountable for not getting the ultimate, that's all guess work and what if's. I actually see it as a positive as it will guarantee he is more driven then perhaps those that have already done it, and may come in with a "This is what worked at 'a', so therefore it will be work at 'b' philosophy.
On his game style.....
I don't remember anyone complaining when we beat GWS 71-70 the other year, nor last week when Freo beat Collingwood 79-75, or Brisbane 73-72, or West Coast winning a flag 79-74.
I don't want to see 40-38 either, nor do I want to see our guys completely smothered, but it doesn't seem to have affected guys like Fyfe, Hill, Walters etc. Play each player to their strengths.
I was at the Essendon game in Round 3 where they defeated Melbourne 130 to 112, and in ways it was comical to watch how easily and poorly set up both sides were at times. If you believe the "you need to break the 100 barrier" brigade they would describe it as the game of the year!
I don't think the best games of Soccer are 5-4, nor the best games of ODI 450 beating 439. As always a balance most be found.
I loved Carlton 2009-2011 as much as anyone when we were on, but hated watching teams score easily against us through the corridor, or not knowing which Carlton would turn up, or watching how we struggled when opposition wouldn't allow us to play to our strengths, or watching how the structure at times would completely fall apart when we lost a player mid game as what happened in a couple of games from memory when once Jamison and Thornton were injured in separate games.
That is not a I don't want Brett Ratten rant, more a don't just get someone to play "attractive football". I just want to win.
By all means have an opinion on who'd you like to get the job, but back in whoever gets the job, and don't dismiss anyone purely on a particular stat, winning %, outside perception, or preconceived views.
Have a look through the 2010 and 2013 Grand Final sides and see some of the names.
Gram, Dawson, Gilbert, Blake, Eddy, Ray, Peake, Jones, Dempster, Gwlit, McQualter, Baker.
Sutcliffe, Spurr, Clarke, Mzungu, DeBoer, Suban, Dawson, Mayne, Duffield, Crowley, Johnson, Pearce.
Now insert one of SoapyV's lists!
You can't deny his ability to get the most out of a lot - of what we from the outside would perceive as - very limited footballers.
Now whether he has to be held accountable for not getting the ultimate, that's all guess work and what if's. I actually see it as a positive as it will guarantee he is more driven then perhaps those that have already done it, and may come in with a "This is what worked at 'a', so therefore it will be work at 'b' philosophy.
On his game style.....
I don't remember anyone complaining when we beat GWS 71-70 the other year, nor last week when Freo beat Collingwood 79-75, or Brisbane 73-72, or West Coast winning a flag 79-74.
I don't want to see 40-38 either, nor do I want to see our guys completely smothered, but it doesn't seem to have affected guys like Fyfe, Hill, Walters etc. Play each player to their strengths.
I was at the Essendon game in Round 3 where they defeated Melbourne 130 to 112, and in ways it was comical to watch how easily and poorly set up both sides were at times. If you believe the "you need to break the 100 barrier" brigade they would describe it as the game of the year!
I don't think the best games of Soccer are 5-4, nor the best games of ODI 450 beating 439. As always a balance most be found.
I loved Carlton 2009-2011 as much as anyone when we were on, but hated watching teams score easily against us through the corridor, or not knowing which Carlton would turn up, or watching how we struggled when opposition wouldn't allow us to play to our strengths, or watching how the structure at times would completely fall apart when we lost a player mid game as what happened in a couple of games from memory when once Jamison and Thornton were injured in separate games.
That is not a I don't want Brett Ratten rant, more a don't just get someone to play "attractive football". I just want to win.
By all means have an opinion on who'd you like to get the job, but back in whoever gets the job, and don't dismiss anyone purely on a particular stat, winning %, outside perception, or preconceived views.
- Nov 14, 2012
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Frankly would take an 8 goal to 6 win as the new norm. Actually find this far more entertaining purely as a spectator as every contest is important.
But if it is Ross you'd be sure that a tight defensive outlook would be instilled, I also think given the cattle we have up forward there would be times that the switch would be thrown and we'd score heavily and quickly.
It'd be all about sitting tight and taking our chances when we get momentum.
so I reckon it's actually likely to be something like 12 goals to 8.
Seek help immediately!
Ratten back would mend some wounds between those in charge of club and members. It would be some real good come out of this horrible experience.
Think it is an outside chance. I will be very happy if Ratten returns as coach as 2012 decision to appoint Malthouse after we had horror run with injury. Was most stupid decision I seen in all my time following my club. Made me very angry to have to put up with Malthouse AND see the mess it caused to our list. We will never get that time back but least wounds can be healed if those still on board indirectly admit some errors in their thinking by getting Ratten back.
However, short of that happening I would also be very content if Michael Voss was coach. Both guys would have learned heaps from their first experience and now staying very closely involved in coaching caper since. Can only imagine both have some great tools and lessons to bring to table as head coaches for this next decade.
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AlecDuncan
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Some bad luck for us, good luck for The Eagles. Kennedy knocked out but came back and played well. Thornton knocked out and didn't come back on.
In a three point game, such things count.
AlecDuncan
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Whoever the new coach is, I expect Simmo will be asked to move on. Maybe even Murph.
New brooms, etc..
New brooms, etc..
AlecDuncan
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True, but umpires are loathe to pay free kicks in the goal square during the dying minutes of a close final.
Smart defenders know this.
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